Продам: Selling now Salomon van Reysdaela

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от sergejnowo

well look at the work on the walls of museums, which in fact belong to the hand restorer.
And then you look at the pictures in the internet works that belong to hand restorer.
Then look at the prices artprayse seeing nature: the proportion of preserved hand of the master at work and actual work history.
And it turns out that the auction will probably not find out who his brother and who is the matchmaker and дуде игрец.
In total with reflections on the theme that the more the price of the two concepts of "brand" or "painting", falling asleep ....

PS
Tjutchev let it be true to you

sergejnowo, I can not understand why look at the pictures, "which in fact belong to the restorer hand, when you can look at the pristine restoration work? They are in museums and private collections. They exhibited both on a permanent basis, and at exhibitions. And most importantly, their much greater than zarestavrirovannyh works! This applies even more to the work of Ruisdael. I do not see that problem on which you specify.

The problem is, but it lies in a slightly different plane. And it is connected with the fact that there are changes in the paint on the picture. This problem was originally founded in the properties of oily ink and features of the soil at that time (16 th - the first floor. The 18 th century). In the aging process of painting a layer of oily paint becomes more transparent, that the liaison The grounding affects obshy coloring product. Restoration is powerless here. This is unavoidable due to time.


In Artprayse not indicate the amount produced by the restoration, but I think that before you purchase landscape of 3,191,857 EUR, the buyer, usually examines work for possible restoration. That's reasonable. Why are not cheap to buy these images dark?
 
If the sellers at the auction "does not understand who's brother and who is the matchmaker and дуде игрец", it is a chance for collectors to buy work versed inexpensive. Well, if the collector can not understand where the work of one Ruisdael, and where else, why would they need him at all?
 
If we talk about the art market of the old masters, the word "brand" to it applies least. You carry on a situation that has arisen from the sales of modernist and post-modernist art. This is a common mistake.
 
P.S. "To study - is to understand the correctness of what others think. But you can not learn things, if initially come from their falsity. "

Hegel, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich

[K-Maler]

Сообщение от "sergejnowo

, Solomon wrote on the boards with a very thin soil, or even without soil.

Your message is interesting. Technically, too. How can oil painting on board without a primer? Painting will not be saved. Classified as a blotter pull the binder of paint (oil, resins and razbavite, or rather its remains, as it disappears by itself). After this, the pigment will automatically fall off. Cracks will be required. In Ruisdael still existed practice of responsibility for properly prepared for painting board. It seems that even the press were staged, that all means. Anyway, can not be that it was unknown artist and customers.

[sergejnowo]

Сообщение от K-Maler

How can oil painting on board, without a primer?

Exactly, in this sure works in the Kunsthalle Hamburg "belong" hand restorer.

I will next time in the museum must make good photographs.

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от sergejnowo

, Solomon wrote on the boards with a very thin soil, or even without soil.

Сообщение от K-Maler

How can oil painting on board, without a primer? Painting will not be saved.

sergejnowo, as correctly noted K-Maler, not "oil painting on board without a primer. And, of course, Solomon van Ruisdael did not. And also, I think, probably, the paintings by this artist from «Kunsthalle Hamburg" do not belong to the "hand of restorers," as you claim, and present itself as just the author's painting of Solomon van Ruysdael.

Сообщение от sergejnowo

Here is why am sure that the work in the Kunsthalle Hamburg "belong" hand restorer.

The fact is that in the first half of the 17 th century kleemelovoy ground was covered with a light layer of a mixture of white lead and Umbria, worn on oil. Painters glued boards weak glue mixed with chalk, and then oskablivali excess with a knife to a tree. A layer of soil can be obtained in thin, that many paintings by Dutch artists of the time under side illumination can clearly see the texture of wood. Here is how the soil of one of the paintings Ruisdael restorer of the work. "The face of the board was выстругана, taped and covered with a thin layer of white glue ground. This primer was still a medium grinded so subtly that appeared convexity fiber boards. Then the ground was tinted as if under the color of the wood a light muddy korichnivoy paint, reminiscent of much razbelennuyu umber burning. (Picture of Solomon van Ruysdael "River Landscape". Riga. Gos. Museum of Fine Arts. 1957. S. 23).

sergejnowo, I believe, contained information exhaustively explains your confusion caused by you-observed the same features paintings Solomon van Ruysdael.
 

Сообщение от sergejnowo

All up a single work, which I saw in museums and at auctions (here in mass attribution) had a marvelous specificity writing of the sky.
The drop of contrast of white clouds highlighted places narrow wedges, sometimes broad (several cm2) fields not shaded board (!)
And not infrequently, these are not shaded place so clean from any pigments or preservatives, which clearly discern the structure of the tree.

What you have seen, this layer of tinted soil, which lies so thin that the side illumination can see the structure of wood.

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от sergejnowo

I will next time in the museum must make good pictures.

I have pictures of Solomon van Ruisdael very good quality. They are well illustrated by our discussion. On them, an increase is clearly visible to the texture of wood (oak), which is visible through the soil and the layer of paint:

[sergejnowo]

Tjutchev, explain why not want to debate with you and why the quote below me very much.

Сообщение от dedulya37

"Katz offered to surrender."

I try to express their personal opinion to use such "auxiliary" words such as: guess, probably, I think, maybe. Never pretend to 100%correctness in the debate, with personal opinions of other forum participants to send their personal perception of painting as much as the right direction.
You simply record your Internet:

Сообщение от Tjutchev; 1274301]It's time to deal with these Ruisdael once and for all.[/QUOTE]
And then summarized data from the Internet
[QUOTE="Tjutchev; 1278301

I have pictures of Solomon van Ruisdael very good quality.

Yes, you download it from the Internet a couple of minutes ago, set the name of work in Google and see where you download it.

Сообщение от Tjutchev

I think The information is exhaustively .....

I'm not interested in explanations of the Internet, I was wondering your personal opinion.
How to prevent much razbelennuyu umber of radishes with butter, and he can read.
Your own personal opinion reminds me of the style of an outline of the Communist Manifesto ....
And according to this:

Сообщение от dedulya37

"Katz offered to surrender."

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от sergejnowo

Tjutchev, explain why not want to debate with you and why the quote below me very much.


I try to express their personal opinion to use such "auxiliary" words such as: guess, probably, I think, maybe. Never pretend to 100%correctness in the debate, with personal opinions of other forum participants to send their personal perception of painting as much as the right direction.
You simply record your Internet:

And then summarized data from the Internet

Yes, you download it from the Internet a couple of minutes ago, set the name of work in Google and see where you download it.

I'm not interested in explanations of the Internet, I was wondering your personal opinion.
How to prevent much razbelennuyu umber of radishes with butter, and he can read.

sergejnowo, what does it mean "Your personal opinion? What is it formed? From your personal experience? What you might have experience of the paintings Solomon van Ruysdael? Judging by the fact that you do not distinguish Ruysdael, your experience, to put it mildly, not great. Well, what do you suppose that the Dutch could write without a primer, said that your ideas about art and limited to just your very limited personal experience (excuse the tautology). In my opinion, if a person has a certain opinion and it is valuable only because the "personal", it is likely an amateur, that is a man with a very vague idea about the subject. The entire civilization is built on sharing knowledge and experiences. From school, at university and in the follow-up person enjoys all the same knowledge and experience of previous generations and fellow contemporaries. Those who questioned the necessity and even the necessity of such an exchange, or uneducated, or disingenuous.
I often use information from the Internet, and would enjoy it more if the web would be all that I need. But unfortunately, she (Network) does not give the whole fullness of knowledge. Most of the information placed on the Internet, gives a superficial idea of what interests me. But, fortunately, there is such a thing as a book! And these wonderful sources of information has accumulated in my utter set. They have something me and come to the rescue! Otherwise, my ideas about art and limited to my "personal opinion".
Incidentally, the information I gave in this topic, however, as in many other subjects not on the Internet (ie, now there, but it is due to me). It is easy to verify. Enough to take the offer from my text and try to find the same through Google or Yandex. And you make sure that the information is unique to the web. Of course, this is not the result of my personal research, this would have to be a restorer of paintings by Dutch artists of the first half of the 17 th century, as a minimum. I do not Restorator. I only occasionally obraschyayus to them. I can not myself, just to name and a great specialist in the Dutch painting of the 17 th century. But I gladly take research results of colleagues who specialize in certain areas. And do not see anything to be ashamed of. This gives a volumetric representation of art in general and okryvaet new horizons.

 With respect to photos posted in my post, then it was not that it pictures of the paintings from my collection or practices. The fact is that I actually possess quality pictures of Ruisdael (and not only). Sufficient quality (approximately 10 MB) to give the enlarged fragments of paintings to illustrate their words. Those photographs, which are available on the Internet, do not give such an opportunity. The main evidence of this - what you, even if you want, not having photos of this quality, can not "hang out" fragments of paintings in this approximation, as I did.
So, the only way you can not goof it, first, still a link to the source of the internet, with which, as you claim, I copied the information. Just give a link! And, secondly, to repeat the "trick" with photos. Go to the site on which you write and let other fragments of the paintings, fragments of which I "hang out" in his post. Naturally, in a similar authorization.

  Search the Internet the information I gave in this thread and repeat what I did, if you claim that it is so simple. Do it!

Сообщение от sergejnowo

Your own personal opinion reminds me of the style of an outline of the Communist Manifesto ....

My personal opinion, no matter how you call it, interesting people. And here at the forum, and beyond. I understand that you are likely not among those people. But your "personal opinion" that you so value, I must admit, I was not very interesting. I'm forced to began a discussion with you, because, after reading your post, found a grave mistake.
Let me give you advice, write only what you really are good. And then the other will not have to correct you. And you do not have to suffer from wounded pride. There are, of course, another way to avoid that situation where you were. This is simply to acknowledge its negligence or ignorance, and thank the person and politely correct you. But you, this method does not seem to know.

[dedulya37]

sergejnowo,


You know what a downer?

This is a guy who is easier to give than to explain that "no".

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Tjutchev; 1280681]There are, of course, another way to avoid that situation where you were.[/QUOTE]
It is in what position "was" sergejnowo?
I know only one "position" of the party at the forum: to him the forum to seek help on Western painting, he is asked to assist directly in the themes of his besides Amateur Yes.
Not you.
To you, I noticed no one in the air is not drawn, did you just do not ask.

[QUOTE="Tjutchev; 1280681

My personal opinion, no matter how you call it, interesting people. And here at the forum, and beyond. I understand that you are likely not among those people.

 Your "personal opinion" on sergejnowo, it seems, on the forum few people interested, but his opinion is interesting for many people. And he answers to the questions members of the forum specifically, with figures and examples.
 
You are here popylis give "qualified" user, defining his "personal experience", have the courage to determine its degree:

Сообщение от Tjutchev

what is your idea of painting as a limited time and you have very limited personal experience

I want to remind you that sergejnowo communicates with the museum staff, restorers, auctioneers, antique dealers in the German-speaking environment, in German and then falls on Russian-language forum already slozhivschimisya terms of speaking, professional language often. Something he calls them, may not be the same words that are used to Russian-speaking colleagues, it can be seen, yes, but it does not give you the right to define it as a "dilettante."
Generally speaking, your conviction and prosecutorial tone, at once issued in you insecure and non-professional type. And in his message, carefully decorated by pseudo-scientific texts, it is just often slipping. But no one, mind you, especially not cling to your list of mistakes and not pulling them with laughter for all to see, and when someone and hint at them, you, as already in pan, justified by the fact that you misunderstood.
Tjutchev, not get normal people on the forum, plucked! Got tired of reading your "all-*********, but I D'Artagnan in White" and will respond to you, does not seem little need to again mumble something like this:

Сообщение от Tjutchev

Maybe you have not properly understood. I mean, that did not pay those peaks, which were held at the auctions. The pay was substantially less.

 

[artcol]

Сообщение от sergejnowo

Tjutchev let it be true to you

But in such matters - the value of statistics.
Everyone makes mistakes - the question to whom more confidence