Degenerate Art? Art of degenerates!

[Nedogonov]

Сообщение от Art-lover

I hope this folklore material completely override the theme, courtesy of Dr. Nedogonovym begun, and its persuasiveness will save him from further efforts in the ungrateful herstologii science-like.

You'll never see! And the rest directly on the textbook, my dear, Art-lover:

«An experienced thief will always try to avoid direct pressure on its prey, but rather to an indirect effect on her thinking. To do this, as if they accidentally throw him some information, the conclusions from which he must do himself. Art of intrigue is precisely what is literate, filing of certain facts, deceives people should do exactly what definite conclusions on that and expects a liar »

Yu Shcherbatykh. "Psychology fraud»
Chapter 3. «Technology deception»
Section: «Coin false evidence»

The flow of people's anger, which systematized Pluttser-Sarno, is available for contemplation at
http://plucer.livejournal.com/56438.html

Resource, no doubt, very useful. Sometimes raided there for "inspiration." Rent is that the whole "stream of popular anger, which systematized Pluttser-Sarno" generated by his own podelnichkami. For them, it means propiaritsya, that's all. These statements are as alike as the authors of the resource persons. Russian language is much richer and more inventive than their carriers.

But I prefer another site - it is more honest, more specifically, with the facts and without haze. Yes, and nationality of authors increases the degree of confidence.

http://www.israelshamir.net/ru/essay44.htm (links to look like, you can find many other interesting things about art)

Do not Lepo HN byashet, brothers, cling to the pure springs of folk art?

Then a bit off topic, but you as a connoisseur and lover of Slavic literary works, I think, would be interesting.

Читать дальше... 

It tells about how ignorance and dishonesty of the researcher could not only lead to stupid mistakes, but also to direct forgery. Main character - our famous academician Dmitry Likhachev.


http://www.zavtra.ru/cgi/veil/data/z...00/340/71.html

[Самвел]

I think that today is skewed in favor of primitive and strength. the fittest survive. As Brodsky-strong die, and the weak breed apart and wholesale. New this law of the jungle. And who today are most suited, LRA cockroaches, locusts, rats and the like, and the art here is not prichem.kren this applies to all sver culture. The culture had to be protected from the barbarians, but unfortunately pozdno.seychas not have anything to learn, not a drawing, not color, heritage spot and could be read for hours on abstract art.

[ВЯЧЕСЛАВ]

Сообщение от Art-lover

..... This folklore material

 
flies swirling over the text .....

[Вивьен]

Сообщение от Nedogonov

"An experienced thief will always try to avoid direct pressure on its prey, but rather to an indirect effect on her thinking. To do this, as if they accidentally throw him some information, the conclusions from which he must do himself. Art of intrigue is precisely that is literate, filing of certain facts, deceives people should do exactly what definite conclusions on that and expects a deceiver "

Yu Shcherbatykh. "The psychology of deceit
Chapter 3. Technologies of deception "
Section: "Coin false evidence»

A very competent description, and most importantly relevant at all times. You can even open a new topic on this subject, share experiences, in fact, probably almost everyone present here, faced with such a artbiznese.

[Nedogonov]

Сообщение от Vivien

A very competent description, and most importantly relevant at all times. You can even open a new topic on this subject, share experiences, in fact, probably almost everyone present here, faced with such a artbiznese.

Here, dear Vivian, principled question of whether, as someone to share experiences - a rogue or a victim. I fear that the creation of a new topography will result in a one-sided information - all of it will be the victims.

And how interesting, perhaps, would have been a topic where gallery owners, dealers, collectors and workers okolovsyacheskie fields of arts, spoke about how they slukavili, threw, deceived, have missed, moved, rigged and etc .... And including - On this forum. Not "arbor" and "confessional" ...

And, in general, any communication between people - is disguised manipulation. But here, as in any field of human existence, there's a limit that can not pass. And goal-setting principle is the principle - do no harm. Merca same - inside us!

[dedulya37]

Сообщение от Nedogonov

And how interesting, perhaps, would have been a topic where gallery owners, dealers, collectors and workers okolovsyacheskie fields of arts, spoke about how they slukavili, threw, deceived, have missed, moved, rigged and t . n .... And including - On this forum. Not "arbor" and "confessional» ...

This has already been discussed at the forum, you only need to find.

[Nedogonov]

Сообщение от dedulya37

need only find

It would be nice, dedulya37, if I remember - where?

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Nedogonov

... unhealthy, paranyalny passions ...
... dermo-containing allegations Degtyar ...
... dirty craft Hirst ...
... poured lousy, dirty, and unreasonable accusations ...
... bacillus rude people and became actively proliferate at the time (or near the time), when the voiced phrase "degenerate art"
... Degenerate, due to deficits in its development ... has infantile, one-sided and rigid mental organization, sluggish, cold heart. Mental activity it can manifest itself only in the form of hysterical psychopathy (O. Kulik, A. Brenner and others like them perverts).
... vicious, hate "International ..." and induced them to "degenerate art"
... "Conspiracy Judaizers"
... sinister Golem, homunculus, grown in the late XIX century, the Marxist-Trotskyist curly camarilla and now living preying on people's hearts, souls, minds
... the Protestant ethic, with the agility of a monkey drawing the spiritual values in the "metal" ...
... degenerates "to the streets" to take a crap in museums, public masturbate and fuck with animals ...
... hateful misanthropic, pat-psychological "creativity"
... At the international exhibitions, fairs and biennials are just degenerates "Russian Art"
... foul in public places
... breeds ... new degenerates
... participants thoroughly lay on opposite sides

This inquisitorial prosecutors and vocabulary of only one message. And if you take all ... So aromatize atmosphere of the forum, perhaps, no one had succeeded.
The words of Nietzsche, are applicable to this case, has already voiced at the forum:

Сообщение от fross

"Beware of morally indignant people: they are inherent in the sting cowardly, hidden even from their own anger ."

The pathos of these guardians of the common good is always directed to the protection of truth, goodness and beauty. But for some reason, these high values of such patronage are beginning to look as if they had not really soaked in formalin, and in cadaveric poison. Where there shalunishke Hirst with his cows.

Actually, this whole sad and sticky erundovina ostensibly about art, interspersed with the Black Hundreds tsitatkami, preachy platitudes and free to all diagnoses and all - reading for the amateur.
If you are a person has decided to erect a litpamyatnik, where

Сообщение от VYACHESLAV

flies swirling above the text .....

- It is his right.
Could simply not pay at all this attention. But there is one but.

Читать дальше... 

Thanks to the efforts of many people, who have spent the abyss of personal time out to share their professional knowledge and experience, and here added a particle of his soul, the forum began to take shape the tradition alive, intelligent, and generally tolerant of communication. (Participants with experience will recall how difficult it was to achieve this delicate balance in a positive diametrically differences on a number of thorny issues.) Artinvestment.ru began to emerge not only as a pragmatic profile site and forum, but also as an interesting and multifaceted educational resource on art.
And then there was a serious problem.
The rise in popularity led to an influx of people interested in art, but with only basic knowledge of its history and theory. Or - even worse - consider themselves experts on the basis of random and fragmentary information gleaned by them in the media and networks. As a result, people seeking non-existent simple answers to complex issues of contemporary art, meet here, "experts" willing to offer the desired "answers" in the most accessible and authoritarian form: there is a demand - there is proposal. As usual in such cases, the degree of aggressiveness and self-confidence is proportional to the degree of ignorance.
It would seem that should give a reasoned critique of false allegations. But the trouble, talk with "intellectuals" is similar to delirium tremens. That situation is a joke, when easier to surrender than to explain why not.
Engage in idle talk without a shadow of doubt on the forehead - where as easily. But go and Answer. Smolchish - think that I agree or nothing to object. Spend time (and it does not always have) and force the disclosure of the topic - will not penetrate, and in response - ten more stupid just settle.
Vicious circle. But if you do not try to unlock it, it would not have to recollect later: sorry, but he was a good forum ...

One could point by point to show that almost all that he wrote Nedogonov on the themes of art, or false, or tendentious stretch, or an empty platitude. But give this "fascinating" lesson of his life - for what sins?
So, for example, will focus only on a single, central point of this "theme".

Сообщение от Nedogonov

... "Degenerate art" I will continue to be called "degenerate art" (ID), for support of degenerative art (literally, not in the Nazi sense) can only be an artist-degenerate (degenerate, as is known - is a sick man with signs of mental or physical degeneration).
...
Further suggest, nevertheless, willing to speak about whether there was a general in nature such a distinction, on opposite sides of which are art and «Art degenerates», and if there - how to grope her. No rudeness ...

Such an approach logically implies the following. Invented a special definition of art on the grounds of disability personality of the artist. The word "degenerate", mind you, is not a scientific concept (ie the notion of having a quantitative determination), and evaluative terms - like the word "idiot" or "goon". It gives everyone the opportunity to make it to the neighbors, according to their understanding. It is oriented not to cure, but in isolation, so do not use humanitarian psychology, but readily applied psychiatry for repressive regimes. Mr. dreams of becoming a psychologist, a psychiatrist in camp on a global scale?
Stake out the scope of its activities - identification degenerates among artists, art critics and art lovers, Dr. Nedogonov invites all to do groping boundaries between art and the present "degenerative."
Now consider its definition:

"« degenerate art "I will continue to call" art degenerates »".

Thus, the demarcation of boundaries within the art will hold all the same to glavspets vyyavlyaniyu degenerates - "poor old Nedogonov", as somewhere he identified himself compassionately.
Well, anywhere "learning" in such manner and at such a level. "No rudeness.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Art-lover

sorry, but he was a good forum ...

This tune, with regret, has already begun to be heard in private conversations with the participants ...

[color="# 666686"]Added after 3 minutes[/color]

Сообщение от Art-lover

Thus, the demarcation of boundaries within the art will hold all the same to glavspets vyyavlyaniyu degenerates - "poor old Nedogonov", as somewhere he identified himself compassionately.
Well, anywhere "learning" in such manner and at such a level. "No rudeness.

How can you not remember "artrevolyutsionera" I. Artyukh with him now so dear, "rude" ...

[Allena]

I think it's simple. If the administration of a forum in no hurry to take action, it is her right. But the right of every one of us, adults, people who communicate on the forum and its information has greater value (in particular, for me personally) do not succumb to cheap "children's" provocations and solve this problem by their own adult normal civilized discourse.

Such a "childish" behavior characteristic of people (unfortunately, usually men) at any age. Provoke an emotional outburst (this is especially pleased under the guise of a nick) and receiving a response, frolic and mischief, as they say, in full.

If we were dealing with these children - in this case, what a brilliant (unfortunately, spent a lot of the time) made an Art-lover, could conceive the most effective relief. However, the "children" are not real.

I do not think I have one believe that the time of administrative measures has long been ripe ... However, the only way non-administrative control - ignore inappropriate or cause messages not to engage with these people into any controversy in any debate or discussion. The more people join the forum to the decision, the faster it goes out disgrace.

Imagine that you go down the street, peacefully chatting with a colleague, and then to your conversation breaks into a drunken hooligan. 're Willing to spend on it as long as we are all here already spent, trying to allay these "leaders"? You either react to a man, or pass by - and a second hooligan left behind and will not interfere with your conversation about the beautiful! The first option is not suitable: respond "not something" (sorry for the monitor). It remains the second.