Degenerate Art? Art of degenerates!

[Nedogonov]

Сообщение от Vivien

A very competent description, and most importantly relevant at all times. You can even open a new topic on this subject, share experiences, in fact, probably almost everyone present here, faced with such a artbiznese.

Here, dear Vivian, principled question of whether, as someone to share experiences - a rogue or a victim. I fear that the creation of a new topography will result in a one-sided information - all of it will be the victims.

And how interesting, perhaps, would have been a topic where gallery owners, dealers, collectors and workers okolovsyacheskie fields of arts, spoke about how they slukavili, threw, deceived, have missed, moved, rigged and etc .... And including - On this forum. Not "arbor" and "confessional" ...

And, in general, any communication between people - is disguised manipulation. But here, as in any field of human existence, there's a limit that can not pass. And goal-setting principle is the principle - do no harm. Merca same - inside us!

[dedulya37]

Сообщение от Nedogonov

And how interesting, perhaps, would have been a topic where gallery owners, dealers, collectors and workers okolovsyacheskie fields of arts, spoke about how they slukavili, threw, deceived, have missed, moved, rigged and t . n .... And including - On this forum. Not "arbor" and "confessional» ...

This has already been discussed at the forum, you only need to find.

[Nedogonov]

Сообщение от dedulya37

need only find

It would be nice, dedulya37, if I remember - where?

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Nedogonov

... unhealthy, paranyalny passions ...
... dermo-containing allegations Degtyar ...
... dirty craft Hirst ...
... poured lousy, dirty, and unreasonable accusations ...
... bacillus rude people and became actively proliferate at the time (or near the time), when the voiced phrase "degenerate art"
... Degenerate, due to deficits in its development ... has infantile, one-sided and rigid mental organization, sluggish, cold heart. Mental activity it can manifest itself only in the form of hysterical psychopathy (O. Kulik, A. Brenner and others like them perverts).
... vicious, hate "International ..." and induced them to "degenerate art"
... "Conspiracy Judaizers"
... sinister Golem, homunculus, grown in the late XIX century, the Marxist-Trotskyist curly camarilla and now living preying on people's hearts, souls, minds
... the Protestant ethic, with the agility of a monkey drawing the spiritual values in the "metal" ...
... degenerates "to the streets" to take a crap in museums, public masturbate and fuck with animals ...
... hateful misanthropic, pat-psychological "creativity"
... At the international exhibitions, fairs and biennials are just degenerates "Russian Art"
... foul in public places
... breeds ... new degenerates
... participants thoroughly lay on opposite sides

This inquisitorial prosecutors and vocabulary of only one message. And if you take all ... So aromatize atmosphere of the forum, perhaps, no one had succeeded.
The words of Nietzsche, are applicable to this case, has already voiced at the forum:

Сообщение от fross

"Beware of morally indignant people: they are inherent in the sting cowardly, hidden even from their own anger ."

The pathos of these guardians of the common good is always directed to the protection of truth, goodness and beauty. But for some reason, these high values of such patronage are beginning to look as if they had not really soaked in formalin, and in cadaveric poison. Where there shalunishke Hirst with his cows.

Actually, this whole sad and sticky erundovina ostensibly about art, interspersed with the Black Hundreds tsitatkami, preachy platitudes and free to all diagnoses and all - reading for the amateur.
If you are a person has decided to erect a litpamyatnik, where

Сообщение от VYACHESLAV

flies swirling above the text .....

- It is his right.
Could simply not pay at all this attention. But there is one but.

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Thanks to the efforts of many people, who have spent the abyss of personal time out to share their professional knowledge and experience, and here added a particle of his soul, the forum began to take shape the tradition alive, intelligent, and generally tolerant of communication. (Participants with experience will recall how difficult it was to achieve this delicate balance in a positive diametrically differences on a number of thorny issues.) Artinvestment.ru began to emerge not only as a pragmatic profile site and forum, but also as an interesting and multifaceted educational resource on art.
And then there was a serious problem.
The rise in popularity led to an influx of people interested in art, but with only basic knowledge of its history and theory. Or - even worse - consider themselves experts on the basis of random and fragmentary information gleaned by them in the media and networks. As a result, people seeking non-existent simple answers to complex issues of contemporary art, meet here, "experts" willing to offer the desired "answers" in the most accessible and authoritarian form: there is a demand - there is proposal. As usual in such cases, the degree of aggressiveness and self-confidence is proportional to the degree of ignorance.
It would seem that should give a reasoned critique of false allegations. But the trouble, talk with "intellectuals" is similar to delirium tremens. That situation is a joke, when easier to surrender than to explain why not.
Engage in idle talk without a shadow of doubt on the forehead - where as easily. But go and Answer. Smolchish - think that I agree or nothing to object. Spend time (and it does not always have) and force the disclosure of the topic - will not penetrate, and in response - ten more stupid just settle.
Vicious circle. But if you do not try to unlock it, it would not have to recollect later: sorry, but he was a good forum ...

One could point by point to show that almost all that he wrote Nedogonov on the themes of art, or false, or tendentious stretch, or an empty platitude. But give this "fascinating" lesson of his life - for what sins?
So, for example, will focus only on a single, central point of this "theme".

Сообщение от Nedogonov

... "Degenerate art" I will continue to be called "degenerate art" (ID), for support of degenerative art (literally, not in the Nazi sense) can only be an artist-degenerate (degenerate, as is known - is a sick man with signs of mental or physical degeneration).
...
Further suggest, nevertheless, willing to speak about whether there was a general in nature such a distinction, on opposite sides of which are art and «Art degenerates», and if there - how to grope her. No rudeness ...

Such an approach logically implies the following. Invented a special definition of art on the grounds of disability personality of the artist. The word "degenerate", mind you, is not a scientific concept (ie the notion of having a quantitative determination), and evaluative terms - like the word "idiot" or "goon". It gives everyone the opportunity to make it to the neighbors, according to their understanding. It is oriented not to cure, but in isolation, so do not use humanitarian psychology, but readily applied psychiatry for repressive regimes. Mr. dreams of becoming a psychologist, a psychiatrist in camp on a global scale?
Stake out the scope of its activities - identification degenerates among artists, art critics and art lovers, Dr. Nedogonov invites all to do groping boundaries between art and the present "degenerative."
Now consider its definition:

"« degenerate art "I will continue to call" art degenerates »".

Thus, the demarcation of boundaries within the art will hold all the same to glavspets vyyavlyaniyu degenerates - "poor old Nedogonov", as somewhere he identified himself compassionately.
Well, anywhere "learning" in such manner and at such a level. "No rudeness.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Art-lover

sorry, but he was a good forum ...

This tune, with regret, has already begun to be heard in private conversations with the participants ...

[color="# 666686"]Added after 3 minutes[/color]

Сообщение от Art-lover

Thus, the demarcation of boundaries within the art will hold all the same to glavspets vyyavlyaniyu degenerates - "poor old Nedogonov", as somewhere he identified himself compassionately.
Well, anywhere "learning" in such manner and at such a level. "No rudeness.

How can you not remember "artrevolyutsionera" I. Artyukh with him now so dear, "rude" ...

[Allena]

I think it's simple. If the administration of a forum in no hurry to take action, it is her right. But the right of every one of us, adults, people who communicate on the forum and its information has greater value (in particular, for me personally) do not succumb to cheap "children's" provocations and solve this problem by their own adult normal civilized discourse.

Such a "childish" behavior characteristic of people (unfortunately, usually men) at any age. Provoke an emotional outburst (this is especially pleased under the guise of a nick) and receiving a response, frolic and mischief, as they say, in full.

If we were dealing with these children - in this case, what a brilliant (unfortunately, spent a lot of the time) made an Art-lover, could conceive the most effective relief. However, the "children" are not real.

I do not think I have one believe that the time of administrative measures has long been ripe ... However, the only way non-administrative control - ignore inappropriate or cause messages not to engage with these people into any controversy in any debate or discussion. The more people join the forum to the decision, the faster it goes out disgrace.

Imagine that you go down the street, peacefully chatting with a colleague, and then to your conversation breaks into a drunken hooligan. 're Willing to spend on it as long as we are all here already spent, trying to allay these "leaders"? You either react to a man, or pass by - and a second hooligan left behind and will not interfere with your conversation about the beautiful! The first option is not suitable: respond "not something" (sorry for the monitor). It remains the second.

[Veronic]

Сообщение от Art-lover

Actually, this whole sad and sticky erundovina ostensibly about art, interspersed with the Black Hundreds tsitatkami, preachy platitudes and free to all diagnoses and all - reading for the amateur.


Such an approach logically implies the following. Invented a special definition of art on the grounds of disability personality of the artist. The word "degenerate", mind you, is not a scientific concept (ie the notion of having a quantitative determination), and evaluative terms - like the word "idiot" or "goon". It gives everyone the opportunity to make it to the neighbors, according to their understanding. It is oriented not to cure, but in isolation, so do not use humanitarian psychology, but readily applied psychiatry for repressive regimes. Mr. dreams of becoming a psychologist, a psychiatrist in camp on a global scale?
Stake out the scope of its activities - identification degenerates among artists, art critics and art lovers, Dr. Nedogonov invites all to do groping boundaries between art and the present "degenerative."
Now consider his definition:

Art-lover, always a pleasure to read your thoughts and arguments in favor of art. But in this case, all the same want to support the view Nedogonova.
How can you express your thoughts against conceptual art, if it is literally filled the minds and space museums and private collections.
And if there are people who do not like it? Or should all the same to love him, even if the mind and the soul opposes? As they say, can abide together with any?

In conclusion, I want to show the pictures, which are also in the opinion of critics are works of art. Do you want us to be visited by a deep inner feelings at the sight of this?

Or else .... show these pictures to your children, let them get used to the small-to-high.

Photos taken from the Archive of Elijah Chichkan

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Veronic

But in this case, all the same want to support the view Nedogonova.

These "views" You want to support?

Originally Posted by Nedogonov
... unhealthy, paranyalny passions ...
... dermo-containing allegations Degtyar ...
... dirty craft Hirst ...
... poured lousy, dirty, and unreasonable accusations ...
... bacillus rude people and became actively proliferate at the time (or near the time), when the voiced phrase "degenerate art"
... Degenerate, due to deficits in its development ... has infantile, one-sided and rigid mental organization, sluggish, cold heart. Mental activity it can manifest itself only in the form of hysterical psychopathy (O. Kulik, A. Brenner and others like them perverts).
... vicious, hate "International ..." and induced them to "degenerate art"
... "Conspiracy Judaizers"
... sinister Golem, homunculus, grown in the late XIX century, the Marxist-Trotskyist curly camarilla and now living preying on people's hearts, souls, minds
... the Protestant ethic, with the agility of a monkey drawing the spiritual values in the "metal" ...
... degenerates "to the streets" to take a crap in museums, public masturbate and fuck with animals ...
... hateful misanthropic, pat-psychological "creativity"
... At the international exhibitions, fairs and biennials are just degenerates "Russian Art"
... foul in public places
... breeds ... new degenerates
... participants thoroughly lay on opposite sides

[Vlasta]

Сообщение от Veronic

In conclusion, I want to show pictures, which are also in the opinion of critics are works of art. Do you want us to be visited by a deep inner feelings at the sight of this?

Veronic, the horror ... Experiences have visited, but not associated with a fine. And it can not be removed?

[Veronic]

Сообщение от Vlasta

Veronic, the horror ... Experiences have visited, but not associated with a fine. And it can not be removed?

And why it must be removed if it is High Art and was exhibited glaring KievGallery «L'Art to the public?
Chichkan will represent Ukraine at the Venice Art Biennale this year, by the way ....

[color="# 666686"]Added after 1 minute[/color]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

These are the "views" you want to support?

Cyril and how to reach the common sense?