Ideal forum: utopia or ...

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Eugene

Yes, site optimization for keywords, promotion in search engines: Yandex, Google, Rambler-score pyat.Molodtsy, so keep.

Сообщение от Admin

Dear Art-lover, I do not know your skills in the field of SEO (search engine optimization), but if you are an expert in this, you must understand that for a resource that exists only 9 months, it is very much. And promotion held (and continues to be) not just a "normal", and the maximum - as much as possible and permissible (the specialists will understand me).

Alexander-san, my skills in SEO enough to appreciate the high efficiency of your efforts to move the resource to network and search engine rankings. Here I fully agree with Eugene. Please accept my congratulations - great work!
However, optimization for search engines - only the first stage of the rocket, which must lead the site in high orbit. Guru of promotion has long indicated a strong shift from SEO to content.
As an information resource base on artinvestment.ru largely been formed, the most dynamic part of the site in terms of generating high-quality content could be a forum.
But the dynamics of the forum over the past week shows, in my opinion, that the impact of the efforts of the technical plan would not be as large as before. In the best case - a linear growth. Noting that the number of participants has the potential to increase tenfold, I was referring to was not criticizing your work, and the real possibility of a synergistic effect of the use of human factors and structural and technical innovations.
And in this issue with my interests (and they are the same as that of the other participants - this is all that concerns art) coincide with your interest to increase the popularity of the site.

Since you write that "the meaning of such discussions maloponyaten", then obviously, you do not see any possibility that any improvement. You are doing a lot on the classification and structuring, "Guide to the Forum" - a useful thing. However you look at what is happening "outside" in terms of external challenges, and I, as a participant - from the inside. The fact that people are communicating, means, among other things, that they spend part of his life, and life for something so worth it. And so the inside can be seen that in this conversation a lot of time goes into lots of little "routine" operations - in the long search for the necessary data (which are not found where, logically, should be), to have very long to look through the pile, so that not miss the interesting events or messages, the explanation with someone who does not read your previous statements, or really without going into the context, and so on. And there are many seemingly small things, of which the sum is not perceptible in words, but "gut" feel the atmosphere of the forum.
This subtle aura invisible to the casual observer affects the willingness of participants to spread the forum notorious precious "content" and the quality of the discussion. In general, on how creative, inspiring, productive and attractive to participants is the life of the forum. And this is mainly depends how active will connect new members.

In this regard, let me not agree with the fact that

to predict the development of the current situation, much less certain "symptoms" - a thankless task

From prevention surely no harm.

I have long experience in network discussions and I know how different processes can be developed. And since I am familiar with Web-design and issues of social communications, to me, MB, easier than other participants, to catch "symptoms" (by the way, is not necessarily negative) and to make explicit the constructive proposals for public discussion.

Thanks for the link VM Mariupol, "counselors" in 1950. (You see, I judge by name and did not guess that there is going to talk to interesting strangers themes).
Note that I am not criticizing this style of communication, and planned to discuss possible measures to reduce its costs. Until just do not have time.

Merry Christmas!

[Admin]

Dear Art-lover, you involve one of the thorniest issues of building social networks - effectively structuring and search content. One solution here - a principle which is constructed, in particular, Wikipedia - Continuous total indexing of all content on the ever-expanding set of keywords, each of which is associated with a sample of entries containing that keyword in a formalized description. The principle is a logical and efficient, but the idea and structure of Wikipedia is fundamentally different from the ideas and structure of a forum for free communication. The structure of Wikipedia is strictly formalized and does not allow any liberties. Each dictionary entry in Wikipedia is a clear description of a particular concept or subject matter claimed. In the same forum, as you know, all quite different.

Judging by your reports, you have some concrete suggestions for possible solutions to the aforesaid problems. On the very existence of such problems are all perfectly know or intuitively understand this, but the options for making me something yet to hear no argument. I would like to hear your specific suggestions.

.....
Few added. One solution to the problem of finding interesting content directly in the forum - the creation of thematic lists of links, and in particular that is already a cloud of tags (which, unfortunately, not all and not always used). Given the fact that each participant of the forum can edit and add tags to any of the topics - it is quite powerful and flexible tool for structuring the thematic content.

.....
Another add. There are other ways to formalize the content enjoyed by, for example, on most major forums - torrent tracker, in particular torrents.ru. We will not discuss here the question of the legality of their content, but the idea of formalization is that when creating a theme for each of its creator require some form filling, with a clear formalized description of the content starting message threads. In the case of a vacancy or improper filling all the form fields, the topic does not pass the approval by a moderator and not allowed to torrent distribution. All would be nothing but the imposition of such restrictions significantly complicates the task for the creators to publish content and ultimately discourage any desire to do so. In principle, the engine of our forum laid some mechanisms for formalizing such content, but I'm not sure what to use them. Any restrictions immediately lead to reduced activity of the forum, since it must be really very serious motivation to make face additional difficulties in publishing their messages. And then ... any formalized way or another is an obstacle-free communication on the forum.

Hence - the only way out: to have a staff of moderators involved the formalization and structuring of content to create a semblance of Wikipedia content of the forum. I confess - something to me this idea is not quite like it. For many reasons. And chief among them: free communication, free myslevyrazhenie not always be formalized description. In a free myslevyrazhenii often present a variety of lyrical departure from the claimed subject matter, which can serve as a starting point for change in the general direction of the discussion in this topic that we often observe. What here can be formalized description? "Guide" and "Tag Cloud" - here, in my opinion, the main road. Perhaps the "Guide", divided into more specific sections - eg, your own "Guide" in each section of the forum.

[qwerty]

I think some of the shortcoming of our forum is the lack of serious topics to discuss. I do not want to offend anyone (including myself), but still interesting topics throws only LCR. Clearly, to issue such positions must possess immense erudition and experience, but maybe try it? We at the forum appeared quite popular branch 'Create a collection of quotations? "That, if you make a branch" Create a collection of interesting topics?. Everyone writes in this section that it would be interesting to know who can - is responsible. Here you can compare different schools, the flow, borrowing, etc. Himself invent new topic is difficult because not a fact that what is interesting to you, interesting and different, much easier to answer. By the way, thus able to raise the "educational" component of the forum, and it really very much we have in empty talk.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от qwerty

himself to invent a new topic is difficult because not a fact that what is interesting to you, interesting and different, much easier to answer.

Absolutely agree. I am now interested in a couple of questions, which I do, but I'm not sure that it has a lot of interest.
And there will be some list of topics of interest to participants, please, and you can take part.

[Tana]

Сообщение от qwerty

I think some of the shortcoming of our forum is the lack of serious topics to discuss.

I agree, however, and "chatter" more in the theme "Arbor", auctions are over, the new season has not started yet, the forecast also discussed, so that any waiting period events.
Good idea about temok.
That first question is ripe, often referred to the Leningrad School of Painting, Moscow, and how they differ other than educational institutions?

[nikola]

Сообщение от Tana

I agree, however, and "chatter" more in the theme "Arbor",

Five months ago I wrote that at times reminds me of the talk forum
in second-class carriage. Speak just to speak. This has its own charm.
But what started the conversation, no one remembers.
Create a list of topics that may not need. Ask a question, the question is not
by topic and get answers. That many may be interested.

[Art-lover]

Now, when our side of the Admin, it will cheer up.

Сообщение от Admin

On the very existence of such problems are all perfectly know or intuitively understand this, but the options for making me something yet to hear no argument. I would like to hear your specific suggestions.

I am somewhat stuck in the "explanatory notes", so that long to pick up the concrete.

MB, optimally in the near future to discuss the topic in a brainstorming mode - brainstorming, and not to rush the implementation of emerging ideas. When they are separated a little, it will be possible to summarize the most interesting and think that really voplotimo. (If the software capabilities of forum engine will not be enough, to realize some "goodies" you can look for fashion to it.)

... any formalized way or another is an obstacle-free communication on the forum.

This is the main difficulty, and I do not forget about it.
The ideal would be to combine the dignity of the forum, Wikipedia, LiveJournal, and not at the expense of ease of communication and freedom of expression.
To this I will return.

PS.
Just appeared topic "What is art?"
Do not cause it to create a partition "Theory of Art. Aesthetics."?
And yet, in my opinion, there is a need in the section
"Art institutions. Museums. Galleries. Biennale fair"

[Art-lover]

I apologize for the delay: distract urgent matters.

Speaking of communication on the forum, we unwittingly find ourselves captive false abstraction.

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In fact, there is no single communication, but there are a number of linear flows of messages ( "order"), in which we insert their messages. (As a small fish in the aquarium, they begin their independent lives, and so uvlekalno is monitoring their swimming ...)
By creating a regular mesidzh, each author comes from its implicit model (metaphor) going communication, which depends on his mood at that moment, the current and long-term interests, abilities, established relationships with interlocutors, the theme of ownership, time available, and God knows yet what causes .
Everyone - his own illusion of communicative situation, and the interference of these illusions, the combined, creates a variety of patterns, the uniqueness of which is masked by indifference by the word "communication".

Contemplate these patterns - and you'll understand why they are interwoven so hard to "serious topic for discussion." Lack of such topics specified qwerty, - wrong side of the predominance of the forum relaxed and enjoyable for all onosheniyah "communication.
You can specify: interesting topics have (bow LCR), but almost no one to discuss them. In the meantime, the forum governs the metaphor of "second-class trains, which wrote nicola (joined in the conversation" for life "from any place, chatted on-Sem and coskochil at the nearest railway halt) - or simply once. As in the famous joke: no time to think, need to shake ...
If second-class trains nabetsya stouter, the bees live chat raise such a "ninth wave" messages and random so that the forum may be awash in products for their livelihoods.
Any message - is "vampirchik, Ueda bit of time reading and comprehension - the question is that it gives in return. Finding gems in the huge pile of sand does not leave time and effort for nothing. Already, the situation intensifies, and imagine the situation "x10" - a tenfold increase in the number of participants and the flow of messages?
Any serious issue will begin to swing, or, if it exists zhivinka for Balagurov, or ignored for lack of time for its comprehension and production of sane reaction.

I see only one way out: the cultivation of alternative metaphors, such as "Symposium", when the discussion of interesting topics are at a decent level, and thoughtful positions not only gives the author topic, but his interlocutors. What does not exclude the break for tea and sightseeing tour, backstage gossip, etc. - But in a measure, which will prompt an internal clock cycle.
How does it carry? Maybe highlight topics such special marks, and recommended them the rules take the form of conventions, which DB familiarize the participants?

Сообщение от qwerty

"Create a collection of interesting topics?. Everyone writes in this section that it would be interesting to know who can - is responsible. Here you can compare different schools, the flow, borrowing, etc.

Could not to multiply the topic with unanswered questions, not create a partition, and the theme of "Collection of issues of interest" - a collection of ideas for future topics. For every idea there could be vote by pressing the "Thank you", and we will see who that is interesting, and how many votes for the opening of a topic.

Сообщение от qwerty

Himself invent new topic is difficult because not a fact that what is interesting to you, interesting and different, much easier to answer

I think that you should not censor themselves for fear of uninteresting affect other issues. In contrast, expression of keen interest to any question can ignite others, unless it is reduced to a dry feed information, and provided with a commentary explaining this interest.
Even if some time is not a live response, this does not mean that it does not appear later, when the forum will come new people. Forum is indexed in search engines, and work to "raise" an interesting topic will be visible across the network.

[ottenki_serogo]

Propose rating titles (a bit like a comedy Gaidai)
provide real privilege. For example, experienced can have several userpics, and KRUTOI spread greater number of pictures and TAs. This may be an incentive for newcomers to move from the category of readers and writers.

It is also possible some preferential voting, the outcome of which would constitute a kind of prize: the best young artist of the year according to the forum ARTinvestment, best photographer, critic, gallerist, the project, the publication year.

[LCR]

Сообщение от ottenki_serogo

propose rating titles (a bit like a comedy Gaidai)
provide real privilege. For example, experienced can have several userpics, and KRUTOI spread greater number of pictures and TAs. This may be an incentive for newcomers to move from the category of readers and writers.

It is also possible some preferential voting, the outcome of which would constitute a kind of prize: the best young artist of the year according to the forum ARTinvestment, best photographer, critic, gallerist, the project, the publication year.

From the first sentence, I strongly disagreed, and the second, in my opinion, excellent.


I immediately blurted out stupid, because I do not understand gray (it - too big for me, good girl! "Actually, I'm awfully fond of him) - the first sentence to me, more or less indifferent, and the second one - I repeat, excellent.