Can a fake without a market?

[AlexanderG]

[QUOTE=mihailovoh;830582]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

 I do agree with the second definition.

 Mne ono toze blize.


With modern forgeries clear the artist is aware of what will be the use of his copy of the * application *. A signature is not relevant to the author and is poddelka.sovremenaya it net.dazhe or when the work performed by students.

Ne sovsem tak. Byl dlinneishii debat na etu temu, istochnik ne pomniu, eto bylo v moi gody obucheniia na Art History v Auckland NZ, no vyvod byl, chto podpis 'iavliaetsia integral'noi chast'iu kartiny, i pri kopirovanii ne vozbraniaetsia ee ispol'zovat' .

I have long exactly this question interisoval-whether my work kleverkov * * with the native signature S Klever be considered authentic. (Although on luxury provenans.ekspertizy GTG.Grabarya)
Naverno.kto thrill and for his Ayvazovski?

A kakova al'ternativa, kto schitaet, chto oni ne podlinnye?

[gans]

Maybe not quite in the subject.
A copy of Soutine, an Odessa artist Sergei Lykov.

http://sergeylykov.com/index.html

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от gans

Can not quite in the subject.
A copy of Soutine, an Odessa artist Sergei Lykov.

http://sergeylykov.com/index.html

gans, even in the very subject! In comparisons with the original (portrait of Mary Lamy, written by Chaim Soutine in 1929), we can find a pretty significant differences. The fact is that to make copies Soutine with it over expressive manner it seems to me a matter of not rewarding! No thanks, in the event that seeks to exactly copy the thing. But if an artist does this in order to understand the maitre with the technical side, that is, in order to penetrate even a little, the mystery of his creative cuisine, it probably makes sense. I am also interested in another question here, what the artist puts it up for public display? Replies may be several! First - a demonstration of its technical capabilities as a painter. Secondly - this is a kind of creative manifesto. Thirdly - this is a banal advertising services (or product), which in the presence of the customer can be provided. Any of these motives, and especially the last one, can not lead us to the end to believe that in a situation in which the maestro will turn someone who has ambitious plans to introduce someone in error, obtains the agreement! If this happens, the history of mankind that will not happen in the first nor the last time! This, of course, only an assumption (for which I apologize to the artist), which should not be inferred that it was Sergei Lykov necessarily take such a proposal, but the assumption would agree, based on historical facts and reality! Here is the very interesting possibility, albeit speculative, such a development ...
 
This assumption I made in order to put the following questions. Violate a moral norm of modern (and not only) social artist, who agreed to the proposal to write the work in a creative manner commercially successful colleagues (his contemporary, or long dead)? One of the conditions of such proposal is the observance of all the material - technical reasons, including the presence of a simulated signature of the artist or the absence of a signature at all (the lack of signature is possible to level to its existence) in the absence of any kind have been hints that it is a copy (eg on the back or the front side)? Who is the artist? Is there something that justifies it in the eyes of society? Or he's a criminal, without the right to forbearance?

 Ad in the newspaper:

[Seriy]

Tjutchev, if transgressed moral norms person who buys a knife in the hardware store? even if this knife will not be detected traces of blood? Is there something that justifies it in our eyes? Or he's a criminal, without the right to forbearance?

Adored by many on the forum, in their opinion, the best artist is a dead artist!

[Кирилл Сызранский]

first.
The artist does not sell fakes.
second.
While fake (or stylization, or copy) not entered the market with the same lime legend of the existence, ownership history of this "artwork", and no one will call this object a hoax.
Otherwise we can say- No market can not fake .
Consequently, questions about counterfeiting, to the operators of this market.

Shifting the blame from the dealers to a healthy artists remind me of the search for the perpetrators of prostitution, forgetting that demand breeds supply. Not "priestesses of love" is to blame, and their clients. They will not, prostitution will not.

[mihailovoh]

Violate a moral norm of modern (and not only) social artist, who agreed to the proposal to write the work in a creative manner commercially successful colleagues (his contemporary, or long dead)? in the absence of any kind have been hints that it is a fake?

When I buy a work environment * Ostroumova Lebedeva * and td.ya znayu.chto bought. When buying E Klever with uchenikami.navernoe all the same. The right to speak about the workshop Yu Klevera.V similar cases, and other artists
By the way. Several academic copies of the 19th would have given the last ochered.posle many, many original works.

[gans]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

I am also interested in another question here, what the artist puts it up for public display? Replies may be several! First - a demonstration of its technical capabilities as a painter. Secondly - this is a kind of creative manifesto. Thirdly - this is a banal advertising services (or product), which in the presence of the customer can be provided.

Well you are too clever by half . "First, it put me, and not an artist. In general, this work was written many years ago, and in it there is some irony, the artist, for example, put a signature Soutine, which in general are not taken to make copies.

Today, works of authorship Lykova sold much more than they can pay for a copy.

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от gans

Well you are too clever by half . "First, it put me, and not an artist. In general, this work was written many years ago, and in it there is some irony, the artist, for example, put a signature Soutine, which in general are not taken to make copies.

And that is changing nature of the problem, which I put? I wrote:

Сообщение от Tjutchev

If this happens, then in the history of mankind that will not happen in the first nor the last time! This is, of course, only an assumption (for which I apologize to the artist), which should not be inferred that it was Sergei Lykov necessarily take such a proposal, but the assumption would agree, based on historical facts and reality! Here is the very interesting possibility, albeit speculative, such a development ...

This assumption I made in order, to put the following questions. Violate a moral norm of modern (and not only) social artist, who agreed to the proposal to write the work in a creative manner commercially successful colleagues (his contemporary, or long dead)? One of the conditions of such proposal is the observance of all the material - technical reasons, including the presence of a simulated signature of the artist or the absence of a signature at all (the lack of signature is possible to level to its existence) in the absence of any kind have been hints that it is a fake? Who is the artist? Is there something that justifies it in our eyes? Or he's a criminal, without the right to leniency?!

Lykov, with all respect for him, and his copy of Soutine, gave rise to talk that seems to me interesting. No other artist so he agreed to write a fake! Moreover it is not just happening in the history of the art market! The very existence of such a possibility is already reason to talk about it!


P.S. Artist Lykov I wish creative successes and good health! I did not want to offend this man! His work has given only an occasion to reflect ...

[Seriy]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

The very existence of such a possibility is already reason to talk about it!

Tiutchev, scaring ... When you turn on the tap in the bathroom, you have also a bunch of ideas? After all, how many opportunities open!

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от Seriy

Tjutchev, if transgressed moral norms person who buys a knife in the hardware store? even if this knife will not be detected traces of blood? Is there something that justifies it in our eyes? Or he's a criminal, without the right to forbearance?

Adored by many on the forum, in their opinion, the best artist is a dead artist!

Сообщение от Seriy

Tiutchev, scaring ... When you turn on the tap in the bathroom, you have also a bunch of ideas? After all, how many opportunities open!!

I do not understand. What do you mean? What is the "knife"? What is the "off"? You actually, what? Formulate your ideas better ...