"Russia's modern abstraction of secondary importance to define"

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от artcol

1. You can talk about abstraction as a style (considering this phenomenon in the art from a historical perspective), but in reality, an abstraction - it is language, a method of understanding reality and the communication of information about it.

Nobody talks about abstractionism as style! In the definition which I quoted just plainly stated:

Сообщение от Tjutchev

Abstract Contrary to the image is not a stylistic category. This particular form of visual art is divided into several areas. Geometric abstraction, lyrical abstraction, gestural abstraction, analytical abstraction and more private flows, such as Suprematism, aranformel, nyuazhizm etc.

Abstract - rather, the direction of fine art.

All creative expression can be considered the language of a certain degree. There is even a well-established expression: "the language of dance", "language of painting" and so on.


 

Сообщение от artcol

2. Indeed, the impact of abstraction is achieved on the viewer by means similar music (link to music in the article is absolutely relevant). But this has its own specifics, which art critic of the very few people know. This can write a long and interesting (as read already written ).

Course has its own specific way, it would not be abstract art, and music.

Сообщение от artcol

3. Blavatsky, Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Malevich, Kandinsky, Scriabin, Soloviev, Bulgakov, Pelevin, etc. - They are all engaged in research and /or transcription the wisdom of the East for the western audience in the best of its abilities and capabilities. These studies and gave the initial impetus to the emergence of abstraction. Hence, we have further profanation of these quests ("... Abstraction as the direction of a very young art ..."). In general, all the usual

This is a controversial! Kandinsky, who is the founder of abstract art did not write anything. And a Malevich did I not read.

Search for the origins of abstract art in ancient cultures, of course you can, but you must admit that in all ancient cultures in varying degrees, there is the desire for conventionality. This psychophysiological need a man! One of the highest forms of brain activity ...

See ancient art of various civilizations, primitive folk art (ornaments, etc.). And of course the obligatory old Russian icons, and all of Eastern art - the greatest achievement of mankind. Everywhere you will find the ascent to the convention.

Speaking about the history of abstract art we are talking about developing it in the bosom of European fine arts culture, of course it is understood and the cumulative experience of human civilization. Man everywhere and people in the east and west!

Further quoting from which it is difficult not to agree:

"... Accelerating change in aesthetic in art installations began in the revolutionary transformations in culture, science and technology in the XX. In art, new trends are already noticeable in the first half of XIX century. At this time in European painting can be seen at the same time improving the naturalistic techniques (J. Ingres, Jean-L.David, T. Chassériau) and the growing tendency to convention (C. Corot, Delacroix, E., F. Goya), the latter especially is pointed in English painting - at RO Bonington and especially William Turner, whose paintings Sun rising in the mist ... (1806), Musical Evening (1829-1839) and some other works are the most daring generalizations bordering on abstraction. Pay attention to form, but also on the story of one of his recent works - Rain, steam and speed, which depicts a locomotive hurtling through the fog and the veil of rain. This picture, painted in 1848 - the highest form of conditionality in the art of the first half of the XIX century.
Since the middle of XIX century. Paintings, drawings, sculptures refer to the fact that the image is not available directly. All the more intensively deployed search for new expressive means, typing methods, increased expression of the universal characters, compressed plastic formulas. On the one hand, it is intended to show man's inner world - his emotional psychological states, with another - to update the vision of the objective world. In 1900-ies discovery - the first in Spain and later in France - the primitive and a little later the traditional ( "primitive") strongly changes the art of the importance of conventional forms of art ... "

I would only add that there is silent role of ancient art as a source of development of abstract art and modernism in general, but it is not surprising because of Western origin of the article. Consecrate this role remains to future researchers. (Although, of course, and now, such studies exist.)

[Pavel]

I heard that Kandinsky was a mathematician and his abstraction is mathematically constructed compositions. He is a German artist and he has clearly read the influence of German expressionism. If desired, traces of abstraction can be found in the manuscript illustrations of stained glass, etc.
The problem is that now all the development of abstraction have been exhausted. I mean the picturesque route. Not enough to make an abstraction, must be original. It only seems simple.

[fross]

It is difficult to argue that modern Russia's abstraction is secondary, but if you talk about the west, all was set up at least until the 60's, now there is nothing new, I think not.
It is interesting to look at dates and compare Mikhnov-Voitenko and Zao Wu-Ki, Hartung. I do not think he could see their work in the catalogs.

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от fross

It is difficult to argue that modern Russia's abstraction is secondary, but if you talk about the west, all was set up at least until the 60's, now there is nothing new, I think not.
It is interesting to look at dates and compare Mikhnov-Voitenko and Zao Wu-Ki, Hartung. I do not think he could see their work in the catalogs.

If we follow your logic, then the whole world is secondary Russian abstract art abstract art! It seems to me to talk about the secondary, guided by the chronology in the art sense, well, at least not productive! Main, in my opinion, should be the very quality of works, but when they do not matter! This is not a sport! Secondary one who is less interesting, less deep, and so etc. Recall the same old masters for each of the great, who then had an influence, but from our understanding of this, have not ceased to be greater for those who have had this effect. Innovation is not a guarantee of significance in the arts. Although this in itself is wonderful and ...

[Маруся]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

If we follow your logic, then the whole world is secondary Russian abstract art abstract art!

To be fair to say that this is not Frosina logic. This conclusion is in the 1960's came Camilla Gray. This is in the book "The Great Experiment» (The Great Experiment: Russian Art 1863 - 1922) wrote that turns all the modern (s) to the Western variety of abstraction were invented by Russian in 20-ies.
Unfortunately, this monograph has never been translated into Russian. But thanks to this book, stop talking "secondary" of Russian art in comparison with western Europe. And in fact wrote her English scholar (herself - a very interesting character), for which a low bow to her.

Сообщение от Pavel

I heard that Kandinsky was a mathematician and his abstraction is mathematically constructed compositions.

Paul! Vasily Kandinsky graduated from the Moscow Imperial University, and at the end even got the chair - well, probably, went to college! But all the cast and went to school Aschbe to study painting. Here's how born abstract ...

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от Maroussia

To be fair to say that this is not Frosina logic. This conclusion is in the 1960's came Camilla Gray. This is in the book "The Great Experiment» (The Great Experiment: Russian Art 1863 - 1922) wrote that turns all the modern (s) to the Western variety of abstraction were invented by Russian in 20-ies.

Maroussia, if you carefully read my text, you must have to understand that I am writing about that art criticism is unacceptable in the application of the term "secondary" in chronological context. Camilla Gray rightly argues that all the varieties of abstraction were invented by Russian in the 20's, but that does not mean that all the world abstract art is secondary to the Russian avant-garde. Russian "invented", but this does not mean that they thus on the abstract art of all subsequent time stamped again.

Likely fross had in mind exactly what you say, that is, that the Russian were the first in a chronological context, but the word "secondary" in art criticism, has a definite value! By the word "secondary" are mixed with the meaning of the word "epigone", which literally means "(Greek epigonos - born after) (knizhn.). Follower of Mr.. artistic, literary, scientific or other areas, devoid of creative independence. "That's about it, and only this I am writing in his post! I write about the incorrectness of the term "secondary":

Сообщение от Tjutchev

If we follow your logic, then the whole world is secondary Russian abstract art abstract art! It seems to me to talk about the secondary, guided by the chronology in the art sense, well, at least not productive! Main, in my opinion, should be the very quality of works, but when they do not matter! This is not a sport! Secondary one who is less interesting, less deep, and so etc. Recall the same old masters for each of the great, who then had an influence, but from our understanding of this, have not ceased to be greater for those who have had this effect. Innovation is not a guarantee of significance in the art. While this in itself remarkable ...

I felt it necessary to clarify this issue. Agree that the terminology is important! Moreover, the term "secondary" is the key in this topic!

Maroussia, I do not pretend to have all your attention (only modestly), but if you still decide to comment on my text, which I am very happy, please read it carefully. This will make our communication more productive. Thanks ...


Posted by 32 minutes

Сообщение от Maroussia

Unfortunately, this monograph has never been translated into Russian. But precisely because of this book, stop talking about the "secondary" of Russian art in comparison with western Europe. But write her English scholar (herself - a very interesting character), for which a low bow to her.

Maroussia, I do not know what kind of "conversations" you say, but this is Camille Gray and her books, I am sure that being a serious scientist, she could not say it that Russian Art second, except for the avant-garde. Serious scientist can not speak about what has no idea! Admit that this conclusion is yours, but not Camilla Gray. But what if it were her! I still think that Russian art of the 19 th early 20 th century is not known in Europe and America! Do not know! We have something to learn it really only in the 70 - 80-ies! Serious books on many aspects of Russian art does not exist yet! Until now! Where, say, in the west may know, our art, if it is still unknown to ourselves? There was, and no books! No, and no show! There was, and is not in Russia! I'm not talking about Europe and America! Tell me, how?

[dedulya37]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

I still think that Russian art of the 19 th early 20 th century is not known in Europe and America! Do not know! We have something to learn it really only in the 70 - 80-ies! Serious books on many aspects of Russian art does not exist yet! Until now! Where, say, in the west may know, our art, if it is still unknown to ourselves? There was, and no books! No, and no show! There was, and is not in Russia! I'm not talking about Europe and America! Tell me, how?

Here's to you and the field activities, and a forum, so small format for you.

[Маруся]

Tiutchev, thanks, that complement and doproyasnili "its position. But let us, in the words of Grandpa, "to argue for si:

Сообщение от Tjutchev

Where, say, in the west may know, our art, if it is still unknown to ourselves?!

We ourselves it is not known only ptomu that for a long time, even did not want to know: the definition of "formalism" meant not even diagnosed, and often - the verdict. After all, you are not a secret that for decades, instead of studying the avant-garde work, hidden in the museum's storerooms, some "art" they were simply destroyed, while authorities dealt with the authors (according to the leading and guiding the party line)
But in the West, they just knew and studied. And sources have been enough:
1) Russian avant-garde art exhibitions in 20-ies (It was they who preserved the material, the more so that most of them were exhibition rodazhi)
2) Russian avant-garde artists who departed after the revolution in Europe and long lived and worked there. For many, in the end, it turned into exile.
3) formed at that time large, serious collection. Why is only the collection of Prince Lobanov-Rostovsky and his wife, but because they are not the only ones.
4) And of course, a huge surge of interest caused Exhibition Costacis collections (as, indeed, and his collecting activities) in the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New York in 1981.
I think that this is the wave of interest spread to the secular at that time, Russia, and literally "forced" us and our art to recall the great achievements of Russian avant-garde artists of the century. But remember - did not mean to start a serious study and popularize. Suffice it to say that the first serious monograph on the Russian Avant-garde Larissa Zhadov (Shadova L. Suche und Experiment. Aus der Geschichte der russischen und sowjetischen Kunst zwischen 1910 und 1930. Dresden, 1978) came to nemetskm language! As it turns out that in the USSR, it was no use to anybody? ... And was needed in the West, which had already had the whole community of people genuinely interested in and knew well (certainly better than us), Russian Avant-Garde.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Maroussia

1) Russian avant-garde art exhibitions in 20-ies (It was they who preserved the material, the more so that most of them were exhibiting and selling)

And, for example, propaganda porcelain so generally placed for sale in the West.
Since 1920, this porcelain, successfully executed, according to Lunacharskogo. role of the authorized representative of the young state of the Soviets abroad, visited the exhibitions in Riga, Helsingfors (Helsinki), Berlin, London, Paris, Stockholm, Brussels, Milan, Venice, Revel ...
In the very same Soviet Russia propaganda porcelain could be seen except that the glass windows on the central streets of Moscow and Petrograd.
Artist Elena Danko (Natalie's sister) later recalled:
"Who remembers the Petrograd in those years-vyscheblennye desert pavement, immersed in darkness and cold, silent house, the windows echinated traces of recent star-bullets, he remembers, and showcase on the avenue 25 years in October. There on white dishes were burning bright red star, hammer and sickle flickered dim gold, porcelain, fabulous flowers entwined in a monogram "RSFSR." There was a small porcelain Red Guards, sailors, men and brilliant chess "Red and White." At a big platter was an inscription in a wreath flowers: "We will turn the world into a blossoming garden".

[VArt]

Link to the work of Elena Aseeva
POST-WAR ABSTRACT ART IN RUSSIA (1950-80)
http://www.krotov.info/lib_sec/01_a/ase/eva_01.htm#3