War examinations

[sergejnowo]

Originally Posted by Artem

Although it is a rare case when the participant Antiques Forum of Odessa, without scandals and publicity in the media, able to refute the opinion of the famous expert and prove that a fake picture.

http://forum.artinvestment.ru/showth...83%D1%81%D0%B0

[тата]

Originally Posted by sergejnowo

http://forum.artinvestment.ru/showth...83%D1%81%D0%B0

Roschin always distinguished categorical statements. Fakes became less, not more! Many pointed out , had a special view, subjective, advantageous to him scandals expertise !
Everything is wonderful , let publishes . He wrote - " any expert can be wrong " and should be held accountable material . And he himself , with his advisers will also serve as expert ? He will be responsible also material ? Or is he a priori infallible ? Why he took it better versed than the experts ? And if , by mistake publish real ? Suffer at least three parties - the expert seller, the buyer . Let then and it guarantees its financial responsibility . Who? And on the basis of examinations which recognizes the work of fake? He also has " The most independent of independent examinations " - examination ? Who are the experts - Petrov ? Then let them meet all the money. What wrong is always in the same direction ? Try to wash , dirt, if by mistake your work falls into forgery , not one auction it will not take. Many experienced experts are not so categorical and in no hurry to declare immediately counterfeit work and recommend to wait in the hope of discovering new materials for a particular author.

[Artem]

Originally Posted by acetate

Who are the experts - Petrov ? Then let them meet all the money. That is always wrong in the same direction ?

So Roschin about it and said that experts should be responsible for their mistakes ... Including Petrov ! This is in his documentary " Errors or scam" ....

Originally Posted by acetate

From what he took , that he knows more than the experts ? And if , by mistake publish real ?

Here, let me disagree with you , on the facts of publications in " directories fakes " was not checked ... just before and after their release. And all that have not published Contested documentary evidence (that three issues of /expert Petrov and two release /TG experts and belt . That's a lot for a long time and discussed among professionals ... regards Roshchina (although my attitude to this gentleman rather ambiguous , we know a little bit ) because he has the most win-win situation ( I mean the legal side of the issue ), it exclusively feathers only on the facts that were presented by the experts ... Petrov on them they are at it , etc.

Originally Posted by acetate

Roschin always distinguished categorical statements. he has a special look , subjective , advantageous to him scandals expertise !

It is impossible to disagree with you . I agree 100 %

It is very clearly seen precisely this desire ...

Originally Posted by Artem

10.04.2014
If you have information about counterfeit works of art, which include expert opinion confirming authorship, we are ready to give wide publicity to these facts . Your privacy is guaranteed.

[тата]

Originally Posted by Artem

Here, let me disagree with you , on the facts of publications in " directories fakes " was not checked ... just before and after their release. And all that have not published Contested documentary evidence (that three issues of /expert Petrov and two release /TG experts and timing .

Why not agree .... that Mr. Petrov could be wrong ? So he himself repeatedly made ​​during GTG ..... or is it all forgotten , and then he like and not to blame, who's talking ... You want to say that every published work , there are two to refute conclusions eligible organizations to carry out examination ? Public and collectors , what is the evidence ... so emotions.
 But in the case of an error , will respond quite Roschin and not an expert - experts we can be wrong <! - ~ 1 ~ -> . Eg for spreading false information discrediting reputation - he's a fake if acknowledges the work to publish . <! - ~ 1 ~ -> , and this may not be so . Three directories - it's not all art is sold on the market, still ahead, directory does not document the way .

 But to your specific and direct question - why are you interested in recently questions relating exclusively fakes ? Not whether you have what the attitude to redistribution of the market expertise ? Soon there will be a new "place of examination " Are not your interest with this .

Or anything personal ! <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

P.S. His film is overgrown with moss , all worn with it , by the way is not better than journalistic little articles . Especially ridiculous these inserts - slicing of comedies.

[Евгений]

"I do not want to talk about Basner - says gallery owner " Triumph " Yemelyan Zakharov - I just want to ensure that our esteemed experts defined: they are criminals or giving false imprisonment, or laymen , endlessly confusing originals with fakes .... .. "
Proper assessment of the processes taking place in the field of expertise ..

[тата]

Categorical be easy, especially if you do not have to demand.
Well, if all the criminals confessed to their antics, then the police would not be needed.
<! - ~ 1 ~ ->

[khmelev]

IMHO, there is one rather delicate moment . Examination , which includes the whole complex of historical and art history and chemical- technological research , is not such a difficult thing for honest professionals . If there is no , as we now say , " motivation " of experts, with most things there is no particular difficulty in the plane of a modern forgery or authentic thing of its time.
  If a thing is "in time " , then enter into force the second plane reasoning - confirmation or denial of authorship. And in the second case, all these ripples -attributed to ..., the circle of .., in the manner of ... etc.
  And here, too, it all depends on the honesty and " unmotivated " experts.
  But what about those cases where the back door pulls machine goes "expert" , right in the trunk " explores " the work and wrote on the back of your photos " opinion." And this, incidentally , is an indulgence that protects the seller from fraud charges .
And to help in this case may not appeal to the honesty of experts - is too general and naive. May protect a written sales contract , clearly stipulated that a person buys , and that he sold.
  If you buy a painting contract Shishkin , and you later sold a copy or perelitsovannogo Fedorova or Welz , the deployment of an amicable transaction or back court.
It seems to me that this kind of scheme would be most preferred. A judge under the decision of the court would return the money received for their substandard work or even be honored and private definitions.

[Artem]

Originally Posted by acetate

But in the case of an error , will respond quite Roschin and not an expert - experts we can be wrong <! - ~ 1 ~ -> . Eg for spreading false information discrediting reputation - he's a fake if acknowledges the work to publish . <! - ~ 1 ~ -> , and this may not be so . Three directories - it's not all art is sold on the market, still ahead, directory does not document the way .

So you go to court that Rant on this subject. Interesting to see how this will end . I believe you something catalogs fakes hurt ... If so ... That all in your hands ! ..

Originally Posted by acetate

 But to your specific and direct question - why are you interested in recently questions relating exclusively fakes ? Not whether you have what the attitude to redistribution of the market expertise ? Soon there will be a new "place of examination " Are not your interest with this .
Or anything personal ! <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

Much to my regret I do not have to do with it ( the redistribution of market expertise ) and why I'm interested in questions relating to forgery .... I will share with you a little later. OK.

Originally Posted by acetate

Now even in STG at personal exhibitions can be seen counterfeit publications even like that and not want to talk . And , gathering acknowledgments and dubious exhibitions - forgery , often sold over the years , that's no problem , " valetovskie " " Lentulova " early " Mashkov " why then whom are not necessary , despite the apparently low rates ,)

I wonder what purpose you are interested in fakes and are not afraid to assert so indiscriminately that THG at personal exhibitions you can see the fakes that the expert or you have confirmation from the experts your statements ... then specifically detailing .... but you will not do this because you and may sue and yet it may not be safe for health .... that's it! I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage in demagoguery about anything.

By the way here than something similar to interview Mr. Tairova with what you wrote.
-----
Archive version of the newspaper " Moskovsky Korrespondent "

In the CHA curse encyclopedia fakes

Elena Arbuzov. 15.04.2008 20:07:55

Читать дальше... 

English art critic dreams destroy the Russian antiques market hands Rossvyazokhrankultura

Oleg Tairov host gallery "Belvedere" - an antique dealer with twenty years . He stood at the origins of the Russian Antique Salon and knows about him such details , which we do not guess . However, according to Oleg, such facts should not be silenced . Especially in light of recent events .
 
 This gives a 20%return per year
 

- Why do people ANTIQUES ?

- Good attachment. The most reliable. In the year gives 15-20 %profit. It's better than buying stocks or gold. Or currency .

- A love of art ?

- Collector auctions and showrooms God forbid 10%. Buy things for the rest of their liquidity .

often see

- MAJOR CUSTOMERS WHO in this auction ?

- Representatives of the middle class. Small and medium-sized businesses .

- oligarchy HAPPEN ?

- Only those who by force of circumstances tied to Russia and most of the time is here. Pyotr Aven , for example. We sometimes see it here . And celestials prefer to buy antiques abroad, at the famous Sotheby's auction type , Christie, Bonhams in England in Stockholm or Uppsala.

people stuffed

- WHY NOT AT HOME ?

- And now the West is not much " fight " for antiques and paintings. That's before when it became possible, auctions and antiques shops, caused a stir. Now people are " stuffed ." All have got what they wanted , and now taken from a passion for sport - to give back to the business. And yet , if we do our experts and purchases then mainly abroad . They believe that at home they will certainly deceived and vparil any forgery.

conditions of Play

- there were precedents ?

- Nobody is immune. And the fraud may vtyuhat and the West. To err is human . Besides the fundamental expertise is not cheap , and spend it only works for a very expensive - where the price is measured by six zeros . Generally buying antiques - this game is like the stock market. Man puts money without being absolutely sure to win . You either get a big jackpot or produesh . In the West, it's all know and accept the conditions of the game. Our same certainly need absolute guarantees . They believe that they can provide only in the West , and that in their native homeland necessarily deceived.

finally disappoint

- WHY so gloomy ?

- Thank encyclopedia fakes that whirlwind burst into life with antique country.

- a book that was presented on the opening day SALON ?

- The same . In fact it is well- planned action by the collapse of Russian antiques market .

- who's behind this ?

- Main interest belongs to those who publishes the encyclopedia - gallery "Triumph". Her owners Vladimir Zakharov Yemelyan Roschin and consist share with some English iskusstvovedshey that hit western road works on our market . Authors such as Hearst, Kunz , Ernst there are astronomically expensive, and no one takes them longer . But in Russia , they think people just pounce on these artists. But it does disappoint them completely in our artists . But how ? Of course , make sure that most of us Shishkin - it does not Shishkin , and, say , some muddy Pupkin . And so on . Note , they do it on purpose, because the current directory - this is the fourth edition, updated . The first edition went to three cheers , and goes after it . Paper can endure . These guys are careful and act wisely . Notice how they called his opus : "Caution : possible fake ." One word "possible" - and they have already guaranteed themselves from the proceedings. We like you just recommend , or rather do not recommend buying this one, and that this work , as they may be fakes. Everything seemed to be so innocent , his reputation tarnished our antique dealers , and we lose profit. Our business is simply worth .

Nobody rein

- WHY NOBODY THIS rein in "Triumph" ? Where to watch Rossvyazohrankulturu ?

- Oh, it - it is their main partner in this whole story . Officials want puffed out , to show himself a sort of fighters for the purity of the antique market . With that deep knowledge in the art of one of them , unfortunately, has not. It is an established fact.

- BUT THIS PRODUCT formed on the basis of some of the facts , is not it ?

- I'll tell you that his main compiler - a Vladimir A. Petrov , a former researcher at the Tretyakov Gallery , which was driven out for professional immorality .

- It turns out that these stores - unprofitable ?

- Exactly.

- WHY do you continue to participate in them ?

- By virtue of tradition and love of art . In addition, for each participant is a good advertising campaign is not cheap , of course. On average, participation in it costs us 20-30 thousand dollars. We charge to their " production costs ." http://www.nv-spravka.ru/megapolis/v...diju_poddelok/

[тата]

Originally Posted by Artem

So you go to court that Rant on this subject. Interesting to see how this will end . I believe you something catalogs fakes hurt ... If so ... That all in your hands ! ..

I think so ... - it's your fantasy. Personally, I do not hurt . By the help of experts addressed over the past ten years a couple - three times . No reason to me to go to court . Questions fakes, I start to worry only when they begin to chat and to escalate the situation , rewashing ancient scandals . You still remember the Christmas of Antiquaries , probably 10 years have passed, and on TV is still cool, is not appeased . Order has become more not need a bunch of old havoc .

Originally Posted by Artem

Much to my regret I do not have to do with it ( the redistribution of market expertise ) and why I'm interested in questions relating to forgery .... I will share with you a little later. OK.

 A pity then that if work honestly - not the most profitable business , and high likelihood of problems .
 Promising that discussion , you will share later, thus you recognize - a special awareness of it.

Originally Posted by Artem

I wonder what purpose you are interested in fakes and are not afraid to assert so indiscriminately that THG at personal exhibitions you can see the fakes that the expert or you have confirmation from the experts your statements ... then specifically detailing .... but you will not do this because you and may sue and yet it may not be safe for health .... that's it! I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage in demagoguery about anything .

Every word was ready to answer and not indiscriminately do not blame anyone . Again , for those who have not heard - GTG were fakes B. Grigoriev. The exhibition "Flowers" were too. Wrote about it in the guestbook ( left his STA ) , in three or four months was the call from a friend expert. Prior to trial, it did not come , and limited household conversations. Especially for health do not watch , quit smoking two years ago. If you do not get a moment of time ... and explain your interest in the topic of fakes ? Do not respond in Odessa style and do not guess that I would do and what to say.
 For its part, responds to you as a simple collector - " Otherwise , any speculation in art, activities Pseudo cause irreparable harm Russian art market and the confidence of potential buyers. "

By the way here than something similar to interview Mr. Tairova with what you wrote.
-----
Archive version of the newspaper " Moskovsky Korrespondent "

In the CHA curse encyclopedia fakes

Elena Arbuzov. 15.04.2008 20:07:55

English art dreams destroy the Russian antiques market hands Rossvyazokhrankultura

Читать дальше... 

Oleg Tairov host gallery "Belvedere" - an antique dealer with twenty years . He stood at the origins of the Russian Antique Salon and knows about him such details , which we do not guess . However, according to Oleg, such facts should not be silenced . Especially in light of recent events

 * neither of which he did not believe HALF YEAR ALREADY , leave him alone . *
 
 This gives a 20%return per year
 

- Why do people ANTIQUES ?

- Good attachment. The most reliable. In the year gives 15-20 %profit. It's better than buying stocks or gold. Or currency .

- A love of art ?

- Collector auctions and showrooms God forbid 10%. Buy things for the rest of their liquidity .

often see

- MAJOR CUSTOMERS WHO in this auction ?

- Representatives of the middle class. Small and medium-sized businesses .

- oligarchy HAPPEN ?

- Only those who by force of circumstances tied to Russia and most of the time is here. Pyotr Aven , for example. We sometimes see it here . And celestials prefer to buy antiques abroad, at the famous Sotheby's auction type , Christie, Bonhams in England in Stockholm or Uppsala.

people stuffed

- WHY NOT AT HOME ?

- And now the West is not much " fight " for antiques and paintings. That's before when it became possible, auctions and antiques shops, caused a stir. Now people are " stuffed ." All have got what they wanted , and now taken from a passion for sport - to give back to the business. And yet , if we do our experts and purchases then mainly abroad . They believe that at home they will certainly deceived and vparil any forgery.

conditions of Play

- there were precedents ?

- Nobody is immune. And the fraud may vtyuhat and the West. To err is human . Besides the fundamental expertise is not cheap , and spend it only works for a very expensive - where the price is measured by six zeros . Generally buying antiques - this game is like the stock market. Man puts money without being absolutely sure to win . You either get a big jackpot or produesh . In the West, it's all know and accept the conditions of the game. Our same certainly need absolute guarantees . They believe that they can provide only in the West , and that in their native homeland necessarily deceived.

finally disappoint

- WHY so gloomy ?

- Thank encyclopedia fakes that whirlwind burst into life with antique country.

- a book that was presented on the opening day SALON ?

- The same . In fact it is well- planned action by the collapse of Russian antiques market .

- who's behind this ?

- Main interest belongs to those who publishes the encyclopedia - gallery "Triumph". Her owners Vladimir Zakharov Yemelyan Roschin and consist share with some English iskusstvovedshey that hit western road works on our market . Authors such as Hearst, Kunz , Ernst there are astronomically expensive, and no one takes them longer . But in Russia , they think people just pounce on these artists. But it does disappoint them completely in our artists . But how ? Of course , make sure that most of us Shishkin - it does not Shishkin , and, say , some muddy Pupkin . And so on . Note , they do it on purpose, because the current directory - this is the fourth edition, updated . The first edition went to three cheers , and goes after it . Paper can endure . These guys are careful and act wisely . Notice how they called his opus : "Caution : possible fake ." One word "possible" - and they have already guaranteed themselves from the proceedings. We like you just recommend , or rather do not recommend buying this one, and that this work , as they may be fakes. Everything seemed to be so innocent , his reputation tarnished our antique dealers , and we lose profit. Our business is simply worth .

Nobody rein

[sergejnowo]

Originally Posted by acetate ; 3081161"

categorical be easy, especially if you do not have to demand .

lack of direct demand from Vendor is the root of evil.
If a sober look at capitalism as the basic social and economic unit of the leading countries of the modern world, basically , for those or other benefits of the capitalist one against the other, is a hoax. That's cheating in any cover-up , as if these cover sweet indirectly called .
Expert , this weapon /method by which a seller for a certain amount of bullshit makes the original - is enriched through the hype .
Expert , as well as any man wants to live better and have more interest here , too, on the face.
However, if SELLER is not financially motivated expert , then the expert would have no interest to ascribe the status of originality bullshit .