A good artist - a successful artist? - Страница 16 - Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

DSF · 09.03.2009, 23:52

I have to respond in detail to the distinguished Art-lover, but for me, almost all made the LCR!! I said to her, and add almost nothing. All the point.

I only have one more consideration. We know the artists who lived a short life, but had a lot more than any other in his life - Masaccio, Vasilyev or Modigliani ... They succeeded. We know the artists who have renounced family - Bryullov, Degas, Gauguin, the same, which his wife did not forgive the fact that he threw a good life ... They coped. And the artists who had been seriously ill? Renoir, who said, "between painting and legs, I choose painting, Kustodiyev, chained to his bed said:" For every step I'm standing in front of "sold out" - that "it is impossible, inaccessible, impossible." And ... to the eastern Yogi - "do not want anything, do not want" ... when all seems logical reasoning can not reach. I so much want to, of course, for me, inaccessible, or Frida Kahlo? Oh, they had every right to complain about the difficulties and lay down their arms, nobody would not reproach them. But they survived.
Do not get me wrong, I do not call for asceticism and monasticism. I just want to say that the difficulties - that is no reason to lay down their arms, and that the real talent will find out and to be realized.

Цитата:

Ninni High-quality material needed in any case - especially in art.

Dear Ninni! I completely agree with you. Just when I talked about the ideas I had in mind beautiful ideas, not literary (left Cossacks - Tartars on the right), the word "beautiful" I've highlighted in italics (probably not). But the ideas expressed in the picturesque picturesque means. And of course the material is of great importance, it is impossible to deny. That's why I quoted the words of Renoir's "good-quality paint. I just think that really is a matter of course.

Marina56 · 10.03.2009, 00:26

Senior Gumilev, for example, considered the artist teacher of nature, but he probably understood this, at least, in its own way. Borges said that "the gates are included ..."

Art-lover · 13.03.2009, 01:13

Each pessimist secretly hoped that the optimists will be able to convince him. That's my position DSF and LSR on the question of realizability of talent impresses more than their own skepticism. However, it is clear that this question is too existential to have a definite answer - too closely, he merges with the region is not only hypothetical but also metaphysical:

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

Of course, when you see the work sooner gone a great artist, bear to think what we have been deprived. But by itself this is an infinite sadness, frustration, this suggests that the artist realized that - he left things in full force showing his talent - otherwise, what would we regret?

All true, but why is the infinite sadness, if we are confident that the talent has manifested itself in full force? ...
If

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

And yet, the talent always realized.

, then such a serious problem we have:

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

Our main problem, I think it is rather to find it, do not pass, because the information very much, and it is filtered in some way, which you both time and talk.

?
But in general, I agree here with the LCR: this is a constructive problem, which should be addressed, and which has not yet been solved even in principle. fross has already allocated some points to this problem:

Цитата:

Сообщение от fross

А где вообще могут показать свои работы художники без существенных материальных затрат? And so that they could see and give their assessment of the specialists?

Maybe it's time to move from the theme "A good artist - a successful artist?" to the topic "What can I do to make a good artist had a better chance to implement?

But the minimal conditions for creativity - it is only one facet of life, which relates the fate of talent. The second line - is that some of the poets (Pasternak and Tsvetaeva?) Defined as "innate wound high souls." Lack of peace in the soul, eternal dissatisfaction with himself and the world, "unreasonable" depression, a dispute with God, friction with the neighbors ...
This side of life is only slightly dependent on our position. Below - is not an exhaustive list of "sold" by artists who have set a point in his creative destiny.

Читать дальше...

Sandro · 13.03.2009, 12:19

Art-lover, as all this sad !.......

Would not it be all good artists lived on as Monet, Renoir, Da Vinci .....

LCR · 13.03.2009, 16:31

Цитата:

Сообщение от Art-lover

All true, but why is the infinite sadness, if we are confident that the talent has manifested itself in full force ?...

Sadness is not because the artist himself did not show, but because it could create other works, which no one sees. For example, and since we've talked on this branch of the de Stael, I very much believe whatever portraits de Stael wrote in his latest fashion (early portraits, 1940's. There) - that we will never know ...
How much work could still write Masaccio, Botticelli, Van Dyck, Van Gogh, Soutine ...
Even the artist who has lived lived relatively long lives, leaving drags with unrealized projects. At the hospital, Misha said differently, once, when someone told him, so get well, you write, he replied - no, I already wrote that he wanted. But at other times he told me: "when I get out of here, I will write very differently." How differently? I do not know what I would not have given up to get the answer to that question (a "written differently," he was a lot of time in his life - he did not belong to the category of artists who have something on this one and settle down) .. .

Цитата:

Сообщение от Art-lover

Maybe it's time to move from the theme "A good artist - a successful artist?" to the topic "What can I do to make a good artist had a better chance to implement?

This is a question to which I have no answer, so I said nothing.
Each decides his own way. Roginsky, for example, either in Russia or abroad, did not go "hang out" and stopped to offer their works in galleries, if something happened, it is almost beyond him. I was with him quite agree - the main thing - do not fall into humiliating situations, nothing ever ask for. and even now it continues - about him write his fellow artists (it's interesting how recurring references to it in interviews with the artists it is), well, a few critics who consider him a significant artist. That is, the relative fame came to him once without his intervention.

How can an artist be? I do not know. Roginsky an example to anyone cause I can not too harsh was his experience.
In any case, do not agree to pay the exhibition, art historians have never paid for the article - it is humiliating, and moreover, simply does not make sense ...

Цитата:

Сообщение от Art-lover

However, the minimum conditions for creativity - it is only one facet of life, which relates the fate of talent. The second line - is that some of the poets (Pasternak and Tsvetaeva?) Defined as "innate wound high souls." Lack of peace in the soul, eternal dissatisfaction with himself and the world, "unreasonable" depression, a dispute with God, friction with the neighbors ...
This side of life is only slightly dependent on our position. Below - is not an exhaustive list of "sold" by artists who have set a point in his creative destiny.

Yes. This is another issue without a solution.

There is another aspect of the problem: sometimes, the lack of peace in dusche "is, and talent, like, and they're gone.
That is: how razdichit real talent?

Here, think now, dear lovers of the beautiful, all my hopes on you - you are so smart, if anyone could answer me all these questions, so this is you

Ninni · 13.03.2009, 22:29

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

he did not belong to the category of artists who find one thing and complacent) ...

A very appreciate and respect this is a rare quality.

[color="# 666686"]Posted 12 minutes[/color]

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

Roginsky, for example, either in Russia or abroad, did not go "hang out" and stopped to offer their works in galleries, if something happened, it is almost beyond him. I was with him quite agree - the main thing - do not fall into the humiliating situation, never have to ask.

Few people will understand and appreciate but it's only correctly (personally, my opinion) but this must be worthy of pride associated factor 2 - lack of children which no matter how trivial but must be fed and present a faithful partner in life - separating all the difficulties and always-in the words of support.

Pavel · 13.03.2009, 23:11

Цитата:

Сообщение от Art-lover

A pessimist secretly hoped that the optimists will be able to convince him. That's my position DSF and LSR on the question of realizability of talent impresses more than their own skepticism. However, it is clear that this question is too existential to have a definite answer - too closely, he merges with the region is not only hypothetical but also metaphysical:

All true, but why is the infinite sadness, if we are confident that the talent has manifested itself in full force? ...
If
, then such a serious problem we have:

But in general, I agree here with the LCR: this is a constructive problem, which should be addressed, and which has not yet been solved even in principle. fross has already allocated some points to this problem:

Maybe it's time to move from the theme "A good artist - a successful artist?" to the topic "What can I do to make a good artist had a better chance to implement?

But the minimal conditions for creativity - it is only one facet of life, which relates the fate of talent. The second line - is that some of the poets (Pasternak and Tsvetaeva?) Defined as "innate wound high souls." Lack of peace in the soul, eternal dissatisfaction with himself and the world, "unreasonable" depression, a dispute with God, friction with the neighbors ...
This side of life is only slightly dependent on our position. Below - is not an exhaustive list of "sold" by artists who have set a point in his creative court

ART-LOVER. I think a lot depends on the person, milieu, where he was studying, was educated, became a painter. Stamps behavior-promotion as an artist someone must spin the patrons of the arts-to be found, the dealer's need to please and so on. As you can see everywhere dependent on someone. In life-promotion requires a lot of money, promote, and often are not in talent. Patrons simply robbers receiving pictures of almost nothing. Traders even worse, almost always very narrow-minded people, which dictated the direction of a commercial artist, the artist is trying to earn money so that later, and then not happen.
Exit I see in expanding the opportunities that work wherever possible. Promising artists little, but they can make good money, that did Vollar. I must work.

Самвел · 13.03.2009, 23:39

Recently read a book by Karl Jaspers. The relationship between schizophrenia and creativity are very amusing book. I think that the artist is someone, almost all artists were deviations, ie were not of this world. The question always arises why, surely one must have what the deviations. And generally transmitted whether these deviations in the work itself, and who is able to see them.

Pavel · 14.03.2009, 14:33

Leave this part alone artists. Look for the strengths and weaknesses of artists. This will help you piobresti really valuable thing. It must be well-versed in the ways not to fall for the bait of charlatans and compilers. Therefore galleries are divided by areas, although this conventional division-important purchase or in an art gallery. You can buy a very expensive now, but the important thing to buy with a guarantee to sell at a profit. When Vollar even propose such a scandalous work of an artist like Cezanne, the princes of buying it was confident that buying precious thing - that's what the reputation of the merchant, and the artists he was honest.
The artist inside a burning flame, which allows him to see the brighter and happier than the average man. That's all.
Apollinaire found a Picasso and began leading the whole direction of modern art. Something we have not observed this. Even where prices come from is not clear.

Art-lover · 15.03.2009, 01:01

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

How can an artist be? I do not know. Roginsky an example to anyone cause I can not too harsh was his experience.

In my opinion, it makes sense to speak here only of the talented artists with heavy experience. Who happier way adjacent to the society, whose work corresponds to the fact that the public expects from art, to solve their problems (especially in the presence of talent, skill and ambition)))

Цитата:

Сообщение от LCR

how to distinguish between real talent?

What really simple! Ministry of Culture together with the Academy of Fine Arts should be maintained for artists badges "Ready to creative accomplishments" and "Talent 1 (2,3) degrees" - and everyone will see who is who.

With all the confusion of views on the art of the surrealists, the denial of their talent, and so on., Their home "aesthetic" category - "a true artist" - a would in our disassembly. (Subsequently, for "non-genuine" in the slang word appeared accurate - "plastics".) Just do not ask, by what signs to distinguish the authenticity of no. This correlative categories: plastics for spectators is only a plastic reality, authenticity, and if they felt, how severe allergy.
Eye - part of the brain, we see what we know and do not see the emphasis in the unknown. When the content of the picture is trivial, the viewer gets a feeling of security and pleasure of recognition. If the same platitudes and more elegantly covered in canvas and filed with the unusual perspective - the joy of the audience has no boundaries.

Original paintings are in a discovery - hence the fact that most can not recognize or feel too uncertain. Such pictures "visible" only those who are immune to the same intuitions as the artist. The fact that the souls of people's feelings, only dimly glimmering, finding expression in the paintings gets "real" artist's material manifestation. Creativity is becoming more like an artist for these people rallying symbol for the artist and the appearance of even small reference group gives a foothold in life.

So, LCR, presented here interesting - and not all well-known artists, you not only destroys the cultural provincialism, but also - and a terrible thing! - Sodeystvuete realization of communicative functions of art

- teaches us to make discoveries and communicate in such cases. While attending training on well-known names, and there, you see, do and learn new discoveries ...

Professional virtual communities, participants are able to maintain long enough to free and committed, which opens new horizons of communication can, I think, become an influential real contributor to the disclosure of the really interesting phenomena in the art. In principle, the most important and most difficult part of any such Wirth. Society - conservation of momentum, motivating enough. the number of pros for the continuation of such communication (theme "The Ideal Forum" - part of the same problem).

13.03.2009, 12:19	Язык оригинала: Русский #154
Sandro Гуру Регистрация: 31.10.2008 Адрес: Москва Сообщений: 1,342 Спасибо: 2,989 Поблагодарили 2,221 раз(а) в 455 сообщениях Записей в дневнике: 1 Репутация: 2874	Art-lover, as all this sad !....... Would not it be all good artists lived on as Monet, Renoir, Da Vinci ..... __________________ "Говорить на тему об искусстве так же бесполезно, как говорить на тему о любви." Н. Фешин.

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Marina56 Бывалый Регистрация: 29.08.2008 Сообщений: 318 Спасибо: 257 Поблагодарили 394 раз(а) в 102 сообщениях Репутация: 409	Senior Gumilev, for example, considered the artist teacher of nature, but he probably understood this, at least, in its own way. Borges said that "the gates are included ..."

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Самвел Гуру Регистрация: 27.08.2008 Адрес: Москва-Шуши. Сообщений: 4,525 Спасибо: 4,922 Поблагодарили 5,759 раз(а) в 1,470 сообщениях Записей в дневнике: 2 Репутация: 10306	Recently read a book by Karl Jaspers. The relationship between schizophrenia and creativity are very amusing book. I think that the artist is someone, almost all artists were deviations, ie were not of this world. The question always arises why, surely one must have what the deviations. And generally transmitted whether these deviations in the work itself, and who is able to see them.

14.03.2009, 14:33	Язык оригинала: Русский #159
Pavel Гуру Регистрация: 13.02.2009 Сообщений: 7,384 Спасибо: 3,976 Поблагодарили 4,028 раз(а) в 1,687 сообщениях Репутация: -2	Leave this part alone artists. Look for the strengths and weaknesses of artists. This will help you piobresti really valuable thing. It must be well-versed in the ways not to fall for the bait of charlatans and compilers. Therefore galleries are divided by areas, although this conventional division-important purchase or in an art gallery. You can buy a very expensive now, but the important thing to buy with a guarantee to sell at a profit. When Vollar even propose such a scandalous work of an artist like Cezanne, the princes of buying it was confident that buying precious thing - that's what the reputation of the merchant, and the artists he was honest. The artist inside a burning flame, which allows him to see the brighter and happier than the average man. That's all. Apollinaire found a Picasso and began leading the whole direction of modern art. Something we have not observed this. Even where prices come from is not clear.