Let's fake?

[IrinaC]

Сообщение от Tana

IrinaC the fact that I am sure that this "copy" did not Nilus, and the other "master" and signed it as Nilus, but this is a fake.
On the first page of this topic dedulya37 showed photos pictures Grabar and "copy" with her signature "Stozharau" exactly the same situation.

OK, about Nilus understood.
but Stozharov also not Stozharau? here because of folk artists, not asleep: rolleyes:

[uriart]

Tit, The fact that the guarantees are given only to the painting, but on the arts and crafts, no.

[Mihail]

Сообщение от IrinaC

This is not fake, and a copy. Forgery, when and forge a signature and to be works of masters.
well ... Why not copy all copied, Dali pieces dragged from Raphael

No, this is not a copy, copy is always done with the original. The case of the Korovin - the most usual plagiarism, or more simply, the Korovina stole the whole plot insolent manner and issued his own ... (the thief must sitdet in prison), the case with Dali and Rafael - do not copy and vzaimstvovanie ottdelnyh subjects, that is akin to plagiarism, but such is not considered by many, often obscure reason ...

[Евгений]

Сообщение от Mihail

y Korovin stole the whole plot insolent manner and given their own

Dear Michael, here the situation is different (artist Nilus did not steal the plot), is a hundred пудовая falsification and plot and signature.

Сообщение от Tana

IrinaC the fact that I am sure that this "copy" did not Nilus, and the other "master" and signed it as Nilus, but this is a fake.

Tana law ..

[Синица]

And someone tried of your colleagues reasoned return to "Sotheby's, Christie" fake painting?

[qwerty]

I've a couple of times. It is very easy. In principle, this is only possible if your examination signed by the expert, recognized by the world community as such, for example, Vivian Barnett is an expert on Kandinsky, and Alla Povelihina - by Matiushin, Guro and Ender. I understand that such experts nor by Korovin, nor on Nilus - no. So, is the last chance - to make technological expertise (preferably in the country where you bought the work) and hope that it will paint a clear mismatch of age with time the alleged creation of a masterpiece. With such expertise likely return there, but most likely you will need to make another one, a control examination, etc. But, at least a chance.

[Tana]

qwerty but ekspertizy client must make his own expense and its value in my opinion is not returned, ie If you bought a work worth 10000-15000dollarov (as in the case of counterfeiting Nilus the cost was about 5000dollarov), the cost of ekapertizy may not be cheaper than the cost of work ....

I remember a couple years ago was the case (do not remember with any auction house, something like Sotheby's, Christie), as heard about it from the news story was quite loud, because the customer bought the wine (the cost was somewhere 100 000dollarov, wine listed as old and rare for that kind of money) and the client decided to learn more about buying, as a result, it turned out that the wine is simply not manufactured in the region in that year at auction, to prove he has all through the court and the auction house returned the money, the client hired not only lawyers but also the expertise in this matter had been raised archives, etc., here in sydebnom order, I think it reimbursed and the costs of court and expertise ( though the news did not mention it), but the claim can all be included.
Also in the legislation of several countries (UK, Germany) states that if a buyer bought defective goods, he can return it to the seller and the obligation to reimburse the cost, perhaps with the return of "not art" should be guided by this law, ie that the buyer purchased is not what was stated in the sale of goods (as in the history of wine), but all this through the court and an expensive lesson (of course if the purchase was expensive and funds permit, the return of counterfeiting case not hopeless).

[SergeiSK]

Tana,
I had a similar precedent with the auction house Dorotheum. Somewhere in three or four years ago, I bought them a picture of the artist K. ... on. In Russia, experts doubted the authorship, and I sent a complaint to the Dorotheum. I was told - we will refund you the price of paintings including the auction fee, but you must provide only conclusion GTG or GRM, to come again to Vienna with a picture of all incidental expenses, we will not compensate for (delivery, customs, expertise, etc.) "spillover" costs would have amounted to a round sum, and I refused this offer.

[uriart]

Returns are only possible in large aukts.domah.
But in France, almost impossible.
I know a lot of respect and a large galeristku, so she is suing one frants.auk.domom for five years. And quite a decent amount of 500 000 USD.
So the judiciary itself is such that its action has not yet even considered. There, no one is in a hurry. Moreover, given the money.

[Tana]

uriart yes, about the fact that foreign countries (in Europe), especially in the courts (gosucherezhdeniyah) no one is in a hurry is yes, all the decorum-noble-in-order-queue-leisurely, as if they not live 100let, and 200, so everything is stretched (I think here it is appropriate to calculate a penalty on the return), and of course the lawyer must be competent, because "loopholes" and "shift work" they can also (maybe not as prevalent as we do, but there are specialists, even on the news can see how quickly some of the disputes are settled and tightened if necessary).