Abstract forever

[Юрий КОСАГОВСКИЙ]

Horsham formula - Abstract forever
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"You still uvlekaetets this academic tinsel? (from a letter from Gay to Repin)


indeed, for all aversion to this genre
from overseas schlock - certainly recall Kandinsky

and with the tenderness and the charm of the soul

hmm ... but this attitude towards him was not formed at once
- Many years I stubbornly thought that this scoundrel

until I saw the chance to show the originals of his paintings
and realized that all the paint is not deposited with the hope
that no one will understand and come down for the Arts
and vice versa with full confidence
that all - absolutely clear on the meaning of

and really - tenderness and charm
were so visible and so clear
I awoke from his contempt
and felt admiration and love forever ...

but ...

Читать дальше... 

was also with me and with realism

nothing seemed to light a more heinous in the gloom
in the absence of flight Poetry depth knowledge of the world
than realism - Repin and Company

it was cute but small
as cooked in the kitchen narrowly professional

but seeing again accidentally arrived Rembrandt
and making out with surprised shadow under the chair a maiden
I realized that before me so the first
and that the realism of professional tracking reliability
committing to the surface of things - and does not smell!

it was poetry and ecstatic poetry
magical poetry that gives the viewer the wings of knowledge of the world
and the world seems ecstatically beautiful and not dull
- (This is the natural function of art) ...

so that all of these genres forever beautiful
and abstraction and realism - if they have a poetry ...

Added after 9 minutes

Сообщение от artcol

It is now understood "but gave a good draftsman was, it can be seen there on his work ... And work he interesting.

what I like Dali - that he understood its limitations
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he "good at drawing" if it is to discuss
in the audience of students and teachers
ie with academic positions

but he himself writes in his book about himself:

"should be the same - not knowing how to draw, I conquered the whole world!"

holds both
and - that could not
and - that won the

and I do admire it

yeah ... - With all the traditional drawing
(Traditional - means not unique
means all)
He was a poet of directing the picture
- This is it interesting

catch phrases that "time flows"
He threw on the canvas, and smote all
as it flows down from the branches like yaishnitsy
trying to catch stretching and tearing

here and poetry - this is where the charm

[artcol]

Сообщение от Yuri KOSAGOVSKY

.




Horsham formula - Abstract forever

=================================

"You still uvlekaetets this academic tinsel? (from a letter from Gay to Repin)

....

Well, what say?
Great!

[Бурка]

Abstract art - just another form of expression ( art, music , etc.) . If this talent , then there is no " dominance " . A. increases in their beds, but does not capture the other , according to a colleague .

Write canvases " blank verse "and not iamb - also normal , as in the literature . If we compare with the music , here the range is wider. Association of the same . Get Schnittke , if we're talking about high standards. Of course , Khlebnikov - not Lermontov . But the right has . Or Lermontov - not Klebnikov ?

[sss]

In "School for Scandal," asked a leading chef, to publish a collection of recipes authentic Russian cuisine and excitedly telling her about the richness and diversity:
- And you eat only food of Russian cuisine?
On what he told her:
- Well, why not? I'm cooking a patriot, not a culinary chauvinist.

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

Abstract nothing shows, so deprives himself of the quality criterion.
In abstractionism no miracle there.
Abstract nothing shows, so he is so miserable from the point of art.
... Failure of abstract painting is quite obvious.
Pictorial abstraction - BEZBLAGODATEN

Your perseverance to be envied, but the arguments -
level spells lecturer times of stagnation. ))
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Сообщение от Igor Sasha

"I was dead tired from life,
None of it did not accept.
But I love this sinful earth,
Because some had not seen "
and
"Holes Blvd schyl, of course, have something in common.

But that's only on "Dyrbulschyle" twisted and finished, and M. has written, developed and became the greatest Russian poet of 20 century.

Comparisons are not valid. Different linguistic environment. Different weight categories of the authors. The originality of "abstruse poetry" - in manifestarnosti, no more. Options were much more interesting, for example, chernoknizhnye spells; windbag rhymes:

***
Eni beni
faces of the packs
urbanization urbanization
Sinti breakpoints
deus deus
krasnodeus
Bacus

in this case, no claim to the title of poetry, might also have a guess that not all the verses (even the non-abstract) - Poetry.

Abstraction is (from abstract words) showed a failure explicitly to others' expressive gravity means. Counting on a phonetic word melody as an opportunity to awaken a certain associative array, leaning to the music, or call for help visual tools transformed into visual poetry.

But, despite his inability to "carry out a further boundless, they, nevertheless, pushed the literary language, and contributed to deeper penetration of the spoken language into poetry, and this extended her life.

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

You can imagine an abstract novel?
Yes you get bored reading it in the first half page.

That's right. But his writing and it makes no sense. Get the book, for example, in the Hungarian language, provided that it does not know and read (you can even out loud) - pleasure comparable.
BUT
compare abstract paintings with abstract poetry - to compare the fat content of milk with the length of the locomotive. Inadequacy of literary abstractions, is that the informativeness of the word lies in its meaning.

It is therefore reasonable to compare the painting with music, the more they have, contrary to your claims, a lot of similarities in anatomy and in the elements of perception. Terms: harmony, rhythm, composition, tone, range, etc. - Can be regarded as mere coincidence))).
In abstract painting, these similarities most pronounced, because there is no clear "image of something."

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

Between abstract painting and music, there is no similarity.
Abstract nothing shows, so he is so miserable from the point of art.
Melodic music - not in the abstract, the melody - SPECIFIC

As a certain combination of sounds creates a specific melody or some combination of patches of color creates a specific image. And not necessarily to a particular image was a picture of something specific.
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On the "ugly, which makes and ugly", consistent and appropriate.

Arabesque (picture number 1). I admit that this inscription (call it so) that means something, even admitting that the man who wrote it, something guided. But for me, not knowing how to read Arabic, it is - just abstract lines, do not reveal the essence of the message. Nevertheless, I am able to evaluate the image, and to perceive the aesthetic promise kalligrafista. And, for some reason, I admit that the line dashes and dots - not haphazardly sketched squiggles, and compositional elements are structured. Why? Probably because it is done convincingly.

When the plumber Kuzmich, looking at abstract painting, said that he, too, so can the left foot - readily believe, because for him it is, indeed, random color spots. In this case, certainly know what the right hand can not, because in this case, in addition to the extremities, preferably part of the head ... of the heart generally keep quiet.

When you say:
"... Abstract painting - a completely arbitrary and made without any legal combination of strokes ... some random spots on the canvas ... whimsy ... pure artistic tyranny"
I am somewhat at a loss. Get lost because:

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

... Every object in the picture - this is conditional
... What is depicted - it generally tenth.
... Anyway, that
... Matter how

yes and praise without Shishkin and Dali.

Several paraphrase your statements can be different accents:
trouble many in the social realism (surrealism can be) that they held a question that depicts, and the question of HOW (ie, the main issue), limited at best, a school. Probably because of Deineki - not a lot, and Doe - a dime a dozen. Those who were concerned about the main issue, inevitably slid into formalizm and abstraktsionizm.

In figurative, of course, have their extremes - explicit repetition, obsession ... (but it is rather a question for a specific author).
With regards to the huge number of random adepts of enlightened theoretical opus and tempted by the possibility of neglect of elementary school ... - as a rule, being involved in an imaginary permissiveness, they discover their clumsiness on the surface of the canvas. Non-figurative painting uses the same tools as the figurative, and without basic practical knowledge and talent - anywhere - is the case when a pointlessness can not hide (try to hide behind the subject, which is not)))).

Oppose the numerator "abstract" numerator "figurative" in the presence of a common denominator "painting" a bit strange. In my opinion the painting as a measurement of the plastic is so diverse and self-sufficient, which can be evaluated and taken on formal grounds.
 
Strictly speaking, you like apples of Cezanne (in this case you do not feel enthusiasm for the apple Doe) is not of great love for the fruit ... and not a perfect similarity with the original (not upset to discover that this is not an apple, and any quince) .
That is, do you assess the quality of picture and admit that the apple - is a kind of conditional form, interaction on the surface of the canvas with other forms through the composite, color, line ratios, and other joys inherent descriptiveness. I think the news that Cezanne forgot to attach a sacred essence of Adam's apple on your feelings, too, is not strongly affected.

Kandinsky and abstraction you do not like (I'm from, too many are not thrilled), it is for formal reasons, not for insulting Italian cuisine. So, the "bad cut tagliatelle and spaghetti," "some random spots on the canvas - it is rather a question of that; the issue of HOW - a well-cut spaghetti, and not arbitrary spots.
Assurances that the abstraction devoid of quality criteria alone, because not represent concrete objects - at least, questionable.

Other times, masterfully written by an academic landscape, somehow it leaves me cold, as any aimless kalyaka-malyaka clings; abstract composition number 999, complete with theoretical calculations, at best, do not worry .. but quite a figurative flower Yakovlev - turned inside out.
Obviously, there is something inexplicable, which allows the soul to worry, regardless of abstract art and figurativa.
Not correct to compare with the talented talentless?

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

In my opinion, any art - is always a dialogue with the viewer, reader, listener.
Abstract knowingly monologichen.

Not necessarily. Imagine that the artist (no abstractionist) colors, because he wanted it or nemozhetsya - he was himself a spectator. Or colors, implying some kind of abstract viewer is able to appreciate the work ... or even a concrete example for you. Only it does not mean that he will show it to you. Monologue and not turn into a dialogue with the audience, because you are in this case are needed as a tool.

? Never had to face in your painting practice so that at some point, do not you start to steer the image, and it is, well, if not you, then by itself, so much so that the original plan remain the only sweet memories, and finished work , surprisingly, turns out to be less consistent than that which is conceived, however, like her, only the size of the canvas? They say it happens. And this situation does not imply a spectator.

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

The main task of painting, wrote Clive Stipplz Lewis - a transfer of light.

Or condition, or mood, or feeling, or .. or .. or ...
In painting, there are no less noble objectives - for example, to feed a sick ego of the artist. ))) Painting - it is also personal experience.

Do not think that I am trying to contact you actively argue or intend to undermine your steadfastness. I just doubt it aloud. )) I and my cockroaches - the roof. I sometimes think that figurative painting at least, and perhaps more abstract than abstract.
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P.S. and that you - as a consolation prize (not "dyrbulschyl, of course, but still):

J. Satunovsky

*
Yes, poetry, syntax,
but the order of rhyming
plays a significant role:
Awawa, Awawa,
and suddenly Abba!

__30 May 1976, Theodosia

  *
Guess what happens
after Bryantsev sklyunetsya,
and grebetnya pokochergaet hlyntsy?

  __5 April 1971

  *
... That is not Stravinsky, not Kandinsky
but in ourselves
space effect of a mismatch;
Yes, that's life. "

 __29 March 1971

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от sss

descriptiveness of the word lies in its meaning.

Sat, long thought.
Then he was like - but lightly.

Changed the words:

"The meaning of words enclosed in its informative value.

To get so f "meaningful."

Is called a transfusion from a sieve.

Posted 6 minutes

Сообщение от sss; 1614411"

never had to face in your painting practice so that at some point, do not you start to steer the image, and it is, well, if not you,

Why is it "unless you"?
Artist - is only a tool in the hands of the Force Bezplotnyh.

I can not imagine that they do not want to speak with the artist (because the abstract - it is a way of avoiding dialogue, and the answers, and generally avoiding all possible).

For fans of abstraction is very important, what is depicted in the picture (more precisely, that is not drawn).

For me painting is important as such, I do not care what was on it.

Important to me as drawn (well, it is written, it does not matter).

But there is no other criterion than the intricate comparisons with the subject, which izorazhen.

That is, if there is no image of the object, there is no quality, it is impossible to estimate.

Merely arbitrary, or arbitrary arrangement of groups of people.

And after 200 years it will all be forgotten.

Like a dream, like a morning mist.

[iside]

Сообщение от sss

Arabesque ( picture number 1 ) . I admit that this inscription ( call it so ) that means something , even admitting that the man who wrote it, something guided . But for me, not knowing how to read Arabic , it is - just abstract lines , do not reveal the essence of the message. Nevertheless , I am able to evaluate the image , and to perceive the aesthetic promise kalligrafista . And , for some reason , I admit that the line dashes and dots - not haphazardly sketched squiggles , and compositional elements are structured . Why ? Probably because it is done convincingly .

Such labels contain any surra from the Koran , or list all the qualities of Allah , the great , merciful , etc. On this several times repeated the word AA but what else is written can not make out because of too messy . But in general , so-so quality in visual terms , such a good bulk , there are a lot prettier .

[artcol]

Not a bad work of a very recognized Volga artist.
Unfortunately, not for sale.

1994, 54h71 cm

[NATA NOVA]

90x90 cm, X.M.
2009 (?)

[Игорь Гурьев]

«Great stupor" in 1910
(From the treatise A. Kopeikin "Dry Dock")

When F. Basile, and E. Manet departed slightly from the scrupulous realism, and C. Monet, Pissarro, Sisley and more, and Cezanne, Van Gogh and Gauguin (and their northern colleagues Munch and Borisov-Musatov) continued to move away from it again and again and in the early twentieth century, new young flow (Fauvism, Expressionism, "Bridge", cubism, "Blue Rose", futurism, sezannizm "Jack of Diamonds") has deepened it, it is clear that this is not just about some unsystematic indentation (as there are indentations on the path in the woods, when you walk on it, wastes, to disrupt the berries, and then returned).

No, it was, as we now see the movement with very specific vector. And this vector may be, it would be difficult to determine if the first decade of the twentieth century did not end the invention of abstract art. He put an end to formal quest that began in the era of Impressionism, ie brought the expression to the principle of in-plane limit, the principle of abstraction to the absurd, and the principle of self-affirmation unbanal to the idea of ​​an obsessive delusion.
All was well until the painting is not completely severed ties with nature. She gradually removed from the transfer of all the visible details of the surrounding world to the expression, symbolism, etc., but when she really broke ties with this kind, there came an end to the movement, which originated in the 50-ies of the XIX century, that is with impressionism.

Note that in the literature in the early 10-ies, too, appeared his "abstract", ie zaum, the holes were schul "twisted, but that he actually came to an end - syuzhetika also remained in the literature.
Not that has happened in painting. Mr Kandinsky and Malevich tried to convince the public that, they begin a new phase of painting - abstraktivizm, "abstract art".

They can be understood: the train has already left, and the passion to stand out as hoped. Therefore, it was invented difficulty understanding now is a combination of: non-figurative art.
But abstract art is not like there is no aimless conversation. (If someone said that he invented the "pointless conversation, hardly anyone took it seriously, because in order to explain the principles of aimless conversation, just want a substantive discussion. Not by accident, when somebody comes into the conversation dead end, then, to change the subject, saying: this conversation is pointless, we pass on a certain topic).

The combination of "abstract art" anyone for some reason was not surprised.
Now this is just the most amazing - why is it then no one was surprised. For art, like any other human activity (and this kind of human activity), has a subject.

Broad unsophisticated audience okolohudozhestvennuyu surprisingly quickly convinced that the so-called abstract combinations of colors and surfaces can also work as a traditional painting, is even better.

Over time, a simple set of abstract techniques spread to the design, and here is the thoughts about bespredmetnichestva flowed a broad stream.
Poor Kandinsky and Malevich, they thought that open up new worlds, but in fact they are the first pictures of their set point in a certain period of art, and these first two pictures they would restrict ...
It often occurs with the view that in itself a combination of colors can be spectacular. Yes. Maybe. But let's see what it can to impress and most importantly - for what?

When I see a plate painted by Suprematist motifs, a dish I will not throw out because it is well decorated.
When I see a table cloth, painted on the principles of Mondrian, is, I can tell, the good tablecloth.

When I see the wallpaper with an abstract pattern, it too can be a good idea.
When I see even a book cover with abstract motifs, it is also primarily a thing with its concrete surface.

The whole point is that the abstract combination can not "play" and be effective and self-sufficient on an abstract surface, which, generally speaking, is the painting surface. They have a right to exist only on a concrete surface - on crockery, wallpaper, furniture, tablecloths, etc.

For when we see a picture of the figurative (ie normal, the only possible), then we abstract from the surface on which it is applied. For us, in principle anyway, that there - oil on canvas, cardboard, cardboard, plywood, canvas or coarse-grained or, for example, wood or copper. This gives their textural effects, but only in connection with an image of something. Abstract combination on an abstract surface do not live there they are unnatural.

A similar, note what happened with music. Modernist atonal and parts with melodic music also can not hold in the abstract space of the conservatory or concert hall (and no one will deny that the acoustic space of the concert hall, too abstract). Acoustic space movie space (market or during the festival), dance halls, discotheques, theater - specifically, and what of the modernist "abstract" music could exist. In the abstract space of the concert hall - for anything. This is a misunderstanding, though not the most tragic in the twentieth century.

1996

[sss]

Sorry, out for a smoke.

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

Sat, long thought.
Then he was like - but lightly.

Changed the words:
"The meaning of words enclosed in its informative value.

To get so f "meaningful."
Is called a transfusion from a sieve.

Sailed ...
This is the case when the permutation of places have changed the terms of the sum ...
Vertayte all back.
It was informative about the words, not informative, which is informative, by definition, being a stable conceptual form ... and not about the meaning, which, unlike the value is easily changed depending on the context
(Eg, expletive "motherfucker" in the case of ah yes Pushkin - praise).


))) I remember as a "very good. perky people, staying in the "black dog", persistently refused to "drive the banality, while the values ​​and meanings are not ustakanilos in meaning.
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And sometimes they do not overlap, ignoring each other and exist in parallel.

- Mister, mister, I'm sorry, you have a clock?
- Fifteen minutes past six.
- Thank you!

Uncle responded to the senses.
If he had reacted to the value, then the answer would be:
- Yes, «Rolex»! - But "thank you" would not wait.

Anyway, in my last post, I used this "empty" expression (not invented by me but by people smart), not to confuse you and myself in terminological niceties, but solely from a desire to point out that Sound (where no phone call, and music) and colors (if not traffic lights, and painting) of such meanings do not, or they are rather conventional. Roughly speaking, the sky - is not necessarily blue and orange may be blue ... and the very blue, more recently, could do without the orange, and, stepping down from the responsibility and dialogue that exist independently in the space of painting, without losing its information content))
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Сообщение от Igor Sasha

Why is it "unless you"?
Artist - is only a tool in the hands of the Force Bezplotnyh.

I can not imagine that they do not want to speak with the artist (because the abstract - it is a way of avoiding dialogue, and the answers, and generally avoiding all possible).

))) Well, I'm out of caution that you do not have any desire to include the abstract at once under the influence of disembodied forces (which with tails and horns), but leave at least as developers of their own will (so to speak, blacksmiths his schasya)

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

But there is no other criterion than the intricate comparisons with the subject, which is depicted.

There is, and you are using them successfully - compares the image of an artist with an image of another and relying on their taste preferences (partly formed such comparisons), choose the most digestible.
Otherwise - you're trying to outsmart himself.
If the criterion for evaluating the quality of painting would be a comparison with the image of an object by object, you would be satisfied with an apple Glazunov, which is comparable to the original.
Nevertheless, an apple by Cezanne for some reason is tastier ...

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

That is, if there is no image of the object, there is no quality, it is impossible to estimate.

Quality is measured not by the presence of painting images of the object, but the presence of the image.
Roughly speaking, a circle with a stick (apple) and slice away from stick (nothing) - full form in the visual space.

Сообщение от Igor Sasha

Just tyranny and arbitrary arrangements of groups of people.
 

 ))) And these are people from different generations and different languages, on anything yet agreed. "I'm not talking about tens of thousands of their followers."

---
... The rest seems to be saying-negotiation. )))