"Kommersant" about Artinvestment

[Сергеич]

I decided to make a separate topic. Here's the link:

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?Do...&NodesID=8

[Прохожий]

God, and in Kommersant about artimeks wrote! Of course, of course, everyone wants to invent its know-how to reinvent the wheel, to structure the art market and art-business. And this is - not the first attempt. Many remember how not so long ago offered to assess the value of paintings from the calculation of cost per square centimeter, izbretali every "common feature ratings, built graphics ... It is clear, the target audience like, say so, innovation, motivation is clear. Here are just raw material to put on public display ... (after all, a thinking person looks at it all the more carefully and realize that, for example, when last spring at a large auction was sold for a very large sum of notorious painting of insects, the index of Russia's art recovery is not demonstrated)
This is quite in the tradition of Russia. As with the famous black handbooks fakes. Could a serious thing to do, but it turned out ...

[Евгений]

pedestrian, you're wrong, and this is a forum where all the patriots ARTinvestment.RU and the site is one of the best in Russia ...

Read again, he did not realize that you do not like it ..
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...." I think that in the current situation should prosest average price segment of the market - told Kommersant Boris Molchanov, head of Russia portal Artinvestment.ru .- $ 50 thousand and $ 500 thousand, it's those things that bought by collectors and investors are middle class. Masterpieces of how to sell, and will. Low segment, too, is unlikely to suffer much, because the only thing that is available to small investors. The money somehow remained - and nowhere to go. They can not be left in cash, invest in real estate - is nonsense, about the securities I do not speak. It remains to art. " Status of the global art market shows Artinvestment.ru developed know-how - the art market indexes (see chart on this page )...."

Indices art market ARTIMX http://artinvestment.ru/artimx/?ffc1..._0_0_0_0_0_0_0

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Me to write something seemed out of naivete, of course, that there can communicate with people who think and analyze. Here are just fanaticism and intellectual activity - things, in my opinion, not very compatible.
One thing the presence or absence of any knowledge. For example, people working here on a database, believe that "oil on board" in auktsionnikah, this "board; oil. In terms of language, they are absolutely right, but we must understand (I'm sure a hundred percent in the area, which belongs to the Soviet painting), it's all the same "canvas, oil. This is, by and large, a trifle, but a trifle, generating the error, and its origins in the absence of knowledge.
Furthermore. Claims of mine, in general, not to the fact that the said Mr. Molchanov, but to the imperfect the add indexes.
Of course, the attempt to create such a tool is curious, but above it should still work ... Try to get rid of bigotry and self-analysis ... Of course, created an excellent informational occasion, have something to enter the salon and so on, but ...

[Admin]

Сообщение от passers-86965

at a time when the last spring at a large auction was sold for a very large sum of notorious painting of insects, the index of Russia's art recovery is not demonstrated

Thus, a stone in my garden, I understand. Dear pedestrian, indices are calculated on all auction sales for all auctions, and you made the remark in no way undermines confidence in the correctness of the calculation of indices. Sale of "Beetle" Kabakov, which you mentioned (28.02.2008 at Phillips), a single release, which has not had a significant impact on the growth index of the high volume of sales at lower prices. That's the explanation.

For example, if you look at the one-year charts of Russian art, you will see a significant release of the indices in late November - early December 2007, after which the indices are back, but to a somewhat higher level than before the ejection. It is clear that the release was caused by the autumn auctions of Russian art, which was a lot of expensive sales. So all natural.

In any case, thank you for their attention to our index.

Сообщение от passers-87045

For example, people working here on a database, believe that "oil on board" in auktsionnikah, this "board; oil. In terms of language, they are absolutely right, but we must understand (I'm sure a hundred percent in the area, which belongs to the Soviet painting), it's all the same "canvas, oil".

Well, suppose the board is still cardboard. And if something frightened in the catalogs of auctions, then for us it is difficult to answer. As for seeing the photograph is not always possible, although we try to do it.

[Meister]

Сообщение от passers-87045

for me to write something seemed out of naivete, of course, that there can communicate with people who think and analyze. Here are just fanaticism and intellectual activity - things, in my opinion, not very compatible.

straight touched all the quick, well, I personally like. Explain more in detail your point of view, what you think in these indices underdeveloped?

[AlexanderG]

proiasniu situatsiiu:

'On board' - mozet byt 'liubaia tverdaia poverhnost', kak to cardboard, MDF, composition board, mazonit itd.

Auktsionery ne vsegda utochniaiut kakoi board, chasche vsego znachit ne na holste.

Art board - mozet byt 'holst nakleennyi na karton.

Na doske - chasche vsego pishut 'wooden' ili 'timber' panel.

[Прохожий]

Unfortunately, it is somewhat limited in time, but will try to briefly explain their position. The fact that I personally very idea of attempts to systematize the art market in this way seems somewhat questionable. A simple example with the same Kabakov, which I referred in previous posts. In terms of trends in Russian contemporary art market of last year's sale, of course, is very important. However, according to Admin, it was a single release, which has not had a significant impact on the growth index of the high volume of sales at lower prices. " The question arises, if the index is more important selling hundreds of items on slaboznachimyh tertiary auctions, how correct his testimony?
Furthermore. It is clear that in respect of domestic art each year will mark two significant spike - in late November and the first half of June, is directly related to the Russian Fashion Week, during which time, and there are basic and significant sales. But at the same time, it is difficult to say that these super-prices in a meaningful way affect vneauktsionnoe pricing.
In addition, prices at auctions are not always the result of real market trends, and quite often the result of conflicting interests and ambitions of specific customers. It means that the index will reflect precisely these trends, but not really the situation in the market.

[Meister]

Сообщение от passers-87145

In terms of trends in Russian contemporary art market of last year's sale, of course, is very important. However, according to Admin, it was a single release, which has not had a significant impact on the growth index of the high volume of sales at lower prices. " The question arises, if the index is more important selling hundreds of items on slaboznachimyh tertiary auctions, how correct his testimony?

Let's understand. As you know, Kabakov, this has left a much higher estimate and nothing is for sale is unsubstantiated. I absolutely do not believe that had this work in the market for the same money, even at less than half a million (and do not be now no kriziza), it would have been purchased. Just a special case when the two came together in the fight against the oligarchs, who nauskali dealers (that I figuratively speaking). The basic premise: that sale can not be an indicator of the market as a unit and can not be used for comparison. De Kooning also won over 130 million sold or Pollock for 140 - is that the indicator of the market? Or som 7 million? This does not mean that all things should cost so much. But other things, around which a struggle is just, and of primary interest for the analysis of the market. They were sold at the same auction (rather than third-rate, as you wrote) and market participants are looking at the overall level of sales, not inexplicable Kabakov.
At the moment (and we are on the forum have already discussed many times) auction sales are a key indicator of the pricing on the basis of which had already appointed their prices gallerists. I would never in my life without auction gallery would not be able to untwist both artists. Other factors: uniqueness, size, condition, etc. - All co-factors. But basically we all focus on the auction sale. I think no one gallery owner or dealer will not be able to argue with that.

Therefore, the index reflects the mood of the market, increase or decrease in demand and prices. Now that's failed auction today at Sotheby's and Christie's, and we will see on the indices. Why do not reflect the dynamics of the market?

[dedulya37]

pedestrian,
First, I want to thank you for the kind words addressed to me and understanding that only a narrow specialization leads to the most significant results.

Secondly,

Сообщение от passers-87145

try to briefly explain its position.

there is such an American police saying: "all that you may say, may be used against you, so be careful when talking on the forum can (as you have seen) to turn in the opposite direction.
Good luck!