-Tatyana Ilinichna, who were friends with your parents?
- They have a particularly close friends was not, because they were very close to each other. When a couple really close, the need for friends is very small. In those days, when we lived in Peredelkino social circle was wide, in Moscow, he sharply narrowed. Parents were friends with Vera Inber. This is a story: when a father and Inber were lovers, but when it was my mother, Vera has behaved honorably and immediately went to the side. But they continued to be friends.
In Peredelkino life was tumultuous. Parents interacted with Pasternak, Ivanova, Pogodin. Children, of course, were a big company. We take Stasik Neuhaus loved each other in six years. My first husband was Misha Ivanov - stepson Vsevolod Ivanov. In fact, he was the son of Babel, which is not even guessed at. He was told about it at sixteen, he experienced a real tragedy. I am in my childhood was very afraid that my dad will not mine.
- From your words, we can conclude that your parents was an unusually harmonious union ...
- This does not mean that the pope did not change her mother. I must say, it tormented him, and he has a better attitude towards my mother. (About to change it, I learned from his beloved sister.) Mum was strikingly feminine and amazingly intelligent. She understood everything and knew how to keep the relationship with his father under his control. Twice a year my father left - once with my mother, the second without it. She understood: it's right. When his father published a series of love poems dedicated to Alice (it was unrequited love for the Polish woman named Alice), my mother, too, understood and reacted to it calmly. Many people are surprised.
- You are a rare man, memories are usually children of parents poured into the romantic and sugary stories. I'm in such cases come to mind a wonderful aphorism Dona Aminado: "Honest child does not like my father with his mother, and rolls with cream ...
- (Laughs) Really nice said, I remember.
I have for years believed that my childhood was not. We have a sister and everything was taken care of for us coupons, and parents were busy themselves. Mama me seriously brought up in terms of how to behave, what is good and what is bad. We somehow came to the publishing house (I was forty years old), she turns to me: "Tatochka, you said:" Hello? " She brought up my whole life. My father talked to me very seriously and serious things, talked about his plans. On Sundays we went to the Pushkin Museum. Only later I realized what it was for me to school.
Lack of attention to me I felt differently. Had a strange story, which told me much later. I was a little girl. The Pope went on "Chelyuskin, it was a long time, my mother in conversation he often recalled: Lyushik (as she called him) then Lyushik it. I once went up to her and said angrily: "The dirty pig - your Lyushik!" Where did it happen? Probably so broke anguish.
For many years I felt that mentally I was brought up mainly father, and only relatively recently realized that owe so much to her mother. I will try to explain. My son was my great-grandmother, I watched with delight with what respect it belongs to two-year-old boy. She said: "I'm afraid to crush it any appetite. I was taught only to his bed, more at home, I did nothing. At my table was going on God knows what, about the same as now. My mother was very clean, despite the fact that we had a maid, she has worked hard herself. I never even made comments. I have a friend who at one time accustomed to the accuracy of his daughter: she demanded, demanded that her daughter has her things in order, and then just took everything and threw into the street. Since the girl was hysterical. She grew up neat, but my girlfriend after she admitted that she destroyed her daughter in something creative. I know nothing forbidden. Maybe that's why I have never felt a forbidden fruit.
- You can be envied. Where did the feeling that you have not had children?
- By the way, my son is the same feeling. Perhaps it is a consequence of the fact that to him, and to me initially was the attitude as an individual, as an adult. That's a very significant case. I was seven years, somehow I was presented with a silver ruble. One fine day in our yard appeared seller of ice cream, I took this ruble and bought ice cream. I stood near the house, enjoy. Suddenly the mother is: "Tatochka, where did you get the money?" I became something to lie - do not remember that. Then he ran the yard, tried to have someone find the ruble, of course, not found. I was dying with fear. (My mother was very strict, though, to my sister more rigorous than me.) During the day, she'll occasionally ask about the money. We went to the cottage, went to bed. In the morning my mother came to me: "Tatochka, tell me, you spent our ruble?" I wept and said: "Yes." She shouts: "Lyushik, come here, she confessed!"
Or even the later case. Since I did not give money, I sometimes stole her mother out of the bag. Once she entered the room and caught me with a bag in his hands. She silently looked at me and went out. Not bad, eh? With my son I had a contract: I showed the box, where lay the money, and said that he took them when he needs it. He did not take any time! And to me, and my son was given too serious for a child's choice.
General finances in our family has never been a problem. Mom could spend much wanted. But one had a demonstration scandal. Father earned some time translating the poetry of the peoples of the USSR, it was hard work, he just hated it. And somehow my mother said that she spent a thousand rubles. Well, spent and spent. Then she suddenly discovered that thousands in the box, anywhere she did not spent, but simply forgot about it. Here father was hoisted and scandal. His indignant contempt for what he gets hard.
- Were there in your family has some traditions, rituals?
- Probably not. When I woke up at his birthday, the bed stood a mountain of gifts - that's the whole ritual. The guests were rare in contrast to, say, from Ivanovo. But Ivanov was so: a small pot pilaf and a lot of alcohol, and you meet people for twenty-five. But it was incredibly interesting, all went there. We were prepared to receive three days, the table was a pile, my mother is very tired, so the techniques have been infrequent. But when it happened, my father shone: he knew how to feast.
General manners in our house were soft. I have what to compare, I visited many families of geniuses. We had no installation: silent, Dad works! If we are to give on the first floor began to talk in a whisper, his father looked out of the office and said: "Speak properly, and then I start to listen." Browse by represented him in a different way. For example, he did once asked to take the manuscript to a publishing house, I met with his editor, he told me goodbye with compassion, said: "And how do you live with it - a terrible character!" From the editors he had a terrible character. Then my father told me: "The publishing house finally understood me and gave the editor-woman (women simply adored it). I have something not agree - she begins to cry. I immediately surrender."
Father really adored women, this special relationship came to the strangeness. When my sister became pregnant, the father said to her: "Forgive me, but if the child will be ugly, I love him I will not. She was born just a beauty, I have these children never saw. He adored his granddaughter, she has devoted a lot of poetry. To my son was treated differently: he understood and appreciated that the boy was clever, but love was not. My son, too, was handsome, but he - a boy.
- Your father was aware, in which system he lives, who is Stalin?
- Stalin, he adored, always carried with him the conversation, showing their faith in him. I was sitting in his office and listened to these conversations.
- And how he took the XX Congress of the Party?
- He was shocked, but from the Leninist idea did not deny. His many accused that he had gone into writing historical plays. But we need to look at their quality. It's funny, but recently I was one person said that today's intellectual circles, I know more than the father. It comes from ignorance. It is believed that good early period of his work, and then went to an ideology. People are bad read, do not see the remarkable late poems. It was a beautiful love lyrics, true, his father signed her to twenty years, he was embarrassed that sixty people can write such poems. But it is a story of her daughter, proving how wonderful her father. I do not like. Read poetry ...
I think he was afraid to admit all to end. Although once in a conversation about his work, he suddenly said to me: "By the age of forty with me it was all over." Blind it can not be named.
- Did you have any aesthetic differences with the father?
- There were, of course. He was regarded with jealousy for the glory of Yevtushenko and Voznesensky, which for us at that time were incredible phenomenon. But it was immediately clear that Ascension came out of him and Kirsanov, Ascension praise, but it was almost forgotten. But it was not an old man's resentment. Father gave a review on the poems received the Literary Institute, one of them was a poem Bella Akhmadulina. He came to a complete delight, and wrote her a letter in which he said that he saw the features of genius. This letter published in one of the collections Akhmadulina. By the way, Bellochka once told me: "We Selvinsky in his youth was tried, but we have not lived in his time. Nobody knows how much we ourselves then taken.
- And the ideological disputes have occurred?
- One day my father with my husband there was a philosophical dispute. When he reached the tipping point, my husband shook his "Brief History of the CPSU (b)" and said: "That's your entire philosophy!" The father replied: "You fool!" This was a happy circumstance: we have since started to live separately, but close, and even built a studio. His father was an educated man, because he occasionally saw a Hegelian, then nitssheantsem. He did all this reading.
- In your life have been negative aspects associated with your name?
- Of course. How many times art handed down the verdict: Selvinskaya - means mediocrity. At a certain pattern: on the children of geniuses nature rests. Then I was incredibly irritated episodes: Meet - the daughter Selvinsky. I categorically refused to call his son Ilya.
- By the way, on behalf. Why did your father had changed, because his name was Carl?
- His name is Ilya.
- In all encyclopedias written: real name is Carl.
- This is wrong. After the father read Marx, he became so excited that he wanted to have his name Ilha Karl. It was a romantic impulse. Error wormed his way in the encyclopedia, and walks so far.
- I asked about the negative aspects associated with your name, and what are the benefits?
- As a child I often thought: what am I happy - I was born in this country, in Moscow and the Pope. I still do not believe that I was born in a miserable country, there is a lot of things. This becomes especially clear when he traveled to other countries. My son lives in Israel, at some point I was going to move there, but I fundamentally do not like there the clan.
- And why the left is your son?
- Unlike his grandfather, he hated the system.
- An interesting evolution: from complete acceptance of your father to complete rejection of your son.
- Yes. Actually, I insisted on his departure - bad to live with such hatred. There he was a successful designer, therefore, became less draw, although he's a talented graphic artist. But I'm sure, in this sense, he will be all good. The fact is that when my father died, I felt a great power. I am only sad because the parents do not know that from me in the end something happened ...
Once my father sat in a chair in the country, and I suddenly realized that he was dying. I went to the city, but this feeling could not escape. I rushed back to the cottage, the same night he was stricken with paralysis. He lay there all knew, but could not say. He looked at me, and I felt his strength, he sends me. So I told my son: I die - you'll be fine. He has a gift, but so far he does not use fully. I would like to have your children better than you ...
In this sense, the theme of parents of talented children - a tragic theme. I remember when we buried Leonid Pasternak (the same tragic fate), I told the story of his childhood, the son Kirsanov - is a terrible story. I watched over his son, Zavadsky ridiculed, humiliated him at all. You can give many more examples ...
- You can say that most of these children are not fully realized, precisely because belonged to a famous name?
Yes, the vast majority ...
http://www.ng.ru/speech/2001-10-20/11_selvinskay.html
15.03.2010, 13:41
In Zverev Center Exhibition Tatiana Selvinsky
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