Question on sales prices of paintings

[Маргарита]

Hello.
has recently been interested in investing in art and viewing the results of sales of auction houses, bumping into some, in my opinion diletansky, the discrepancy, such as Aivazovsky (49 x 67 cm. "DOWNFALL OF THE SEA, 1886) goes for 6 T €!!! German auction (on this site is a picture)
or Baranov-Rossine, pictures of which went for nekolko hundreds of thousands of dollars, generally is not sold, "the rain", Oil on canvas.
57 x 73 cm (and Estimate-€ 5.000 - 8.000), same-Ilya Mashkov
(Coast of the Crimea, oil on canvas)-Estimate-€ 3.000 - 4.000-not sold out!
how you can comment? I will appreciate your answers.

[Nik]

I, of course, also not an expert, but something to clarify, I hope I can.

With Aivazovsky's simple. Aivazovsky for their lives written about 6 thousand paintings, of which part can be found in museums. And through the sale on the world's auction houses are about 40 thousand paintings attributed Aivazovsky. Aivazovsky Present at today's auctions can be found very rarely. Even more difficult to determine the authenticity of Aivazovsky, because counterfeits of it are often very high quality and serious experts on Aivazovsky very little. Hence it is clear how appears on Ayvazovsky auction from 6 euros, if the real price of such work should be 100 times higher (if not more). Someone, however, fall for such an obvious fake, and buys it.

Approximately the same situation and with other artists. If the work is exhibited at an auction at a much lower cost than similar work of the same artist (size, quality, period), it is a very compelling reason to think about its authenticity. For this reason, these lots are often not sold.

[Маргарита]

well, why, in this case, giving a picture of the true, the seller does not set to the original price?
Under these circumstances, either on auction picture may be potdelkoy? how to determine the authenticity?
and how much expertise you can trust? it, too, can potdelat ..

[Сергеич]

Artists who worked in the classical style, Aivazovsky, Shishkin, etc., differ little from their contemporaries, the good, not necessarily Russian. Scandinavians have written the same landscapes.
Chemical analysis shows that time. Therefore, if the paintings of such artists is not 100%provenance (history), then sell them difficult or impossible.
About Baranoff-Rosina can not say, but members forum prokomentiruyut.
I know there are specialists. But socialized thought (agree with Nik)
this is fake or very unsuccessful in quality of work.

[Маргарита]

OK, with Ayvazovckim clear, thank you) something like that I expected.
but, for example, do not get to fake some of the sixties, often set on Europe. auctions?
living in Germany, I have no vozozhnosti appeal directly to Russian experts.
whether auctions, which are the most protected from potdelok?
and you for yourself, for example, determine the degree of risk?
potdelok me until the problem is unsolvable ..
could you list those situations in which potdelki deleted? is there some general rules?

[Nik]

General Rules and there can not be. Every situation is individual artist. For example, to determine the authenticity of Chagall's simple. There are so-called Committee Chagall, who closely monitors all of Chagall, sold at auction. The same Committee issued certificates of authenticity to the work of Chagall. Thus, if sold at an auction of Chagall's works has a certificate of authenticity, issued by the Committee of Chagall, then this work is genuine, and you acquired the work, then be able to easily sell it at any auction or through any gallery, doubt its authenticity none not arise.

With other artists, sometimes in different ways. For some artists are recognized experts, whose expertise is unequivocal proof of the authenticity of work. In addition, there is the notion of provenance (origin) of work. For example, the work could be once purchased from the artist himself or his family, which is documentary evidence, etc.

In general, in each case should be dealt individually. Often it happens very, very difficult. I'm not talking about mistakes ekpertizy and other possible discrepancies. Fake examination may also occur.

However, to insure the acquisition of fakes can. Serious galleries, for example, provide guarantees for the purchase from their work. If in the future there are any doubts about the authenticity of such work (for example, in a subsequent sale), you will be able to return this work to the gallery and get their money back.

[artcol]

Сообщение от Margaret

could you list those situations in which potdelki deleted? is there any general rules?

Buy from living artists or by their heirs. In all other cases there is no 100%guarantee - examples are known.

[Прохожий]

Сообщение от artcol

Buy from living artists or by their heirs. In all other cases there is no 100%guarantee - examples are known.

artcol, you say "Buy from living artists or their heirs have, but this is not a panacea. I know a once-respected Moscow artist very old age, which in recent years baluetsya that creates "the author repeats" its the same things 40-60's. Who had long since sold, and sells them as starye.Problema in that the hands and eyes is not what they were fifty years ago, and his fresh работки quite weak. It is surprising that some professionals do not see this, and similar crafts appear fresh, even in some auction catalogs.
However, when I once told him their outrage about this, he said, "The artist has the moral right of the author's repetition, but how to date it - it's his (the artist) a private matter." As you are such a passage?

[Konstantin]

At the same time, when I once told him their outrage about this, he said, "The artist has the moral right of the author's repetition, but how to date it - it's his (the artist) a private matter." As you are such a passage?

Surname not call? It would be useful in all senses.

[color="# 666686"]Added after 14 minutes[/color]

If I understood correctly about the signs of investment risk, the risk of large red-, green-low?
And if there is no sign of what this means?
This probably means that there is no point in buying this work, as well as invest in them are not interested? That's not to say that the work is not genuine?
After all, as I understand, we are talking about investments and not about authenticity?
Or am I mistaken?

Yes, the icons in the first investment. Recent example is discussed painting Archipenko - "Torso". It has a yellow indicator as to buy at the declared estimate 300 - $ 400 so do not need. However, it is authentic.
In practice on indicators yields the following.
- Green - all is well with expert opinion that the present (90%as the picture all the same. Although that is just a great painting) the price is normal.
- Yellow /empty - most often a lack of information on the attribution or inflated price.
- Red - a signal to treat the work very carefully. Have questions of attribution and the inflated price.

[Евгений]

Сообщение от passers 116395

As you are such a passage?

This is a simple forgery of paintings and all.

Сообщение от passers 116395

like fresh crafts appear even in some of the auction catalogs.

I wonder where?