Good ownership

[Сима]

Dear forumlyane! Share your experiences, how to formalize the "Fair vledenie." What are my options?
I appeal to those who sell and those who buy. And that there should be written? And then faced with the fact that it is impossible to insure. Ie then take the money, but one kind soul said that in case the insured event without this paper did not give. Not to mention the export authorization (if no flanking maneuvers).

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Sima

without this paper

A paper so-called "bona fide possession"?
For the first time all I hear ...
Dark I ... : shy:

[Сима]

Cyril Syzransky, the paper does not know the name. But it affirms "it". Not all "good sellers"-jur. person - give a paper check or something for obvious fiscal reasons. Not to mention individuals. And what? (auktsiony. of course. give)

[Сима]

Сообщение от OlgaV

P /S "bona fide possession" in legal parlance means that you work is not stolen, and acquiring it deceived no one, ie excludes theft and fraud.

That's it. So the dealer or gallery should be whether the buyer's request to give the paper is that?
And if somehow transparent, that is a collection of the first generation and the "possession during the" talk weird? And the "prescription" - is how much?

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Sima

give a paper that's the point?

It reminded me of the requirement to provide a document "that you're not a camel."
You most anything to prove her ownership is not necessary, I, for example, understand the Civil Code.

[Сима]

Cyril Syzransky, in the first place once again saying that lack of "paper" prevented insurance. Secondly, just remembered. where I had heard this expression - remember the story (with Titian or something) from a foreign museum? He then has exhibited. Since the owner was still on this paper legally purchased. Otherwise I would have selected in FIG.

[color="# 666686"]Added after 2 minutes[/color]
OlgaV, take it easy, for God's sake. I know collectors who for some reason this is very caring. Why then?

[Евгений]

Seema, We are somewhere on the forum have already discussed this (I can not find), but the meaning was this:
"Acquisitive Prescription (prescription or possession) is the reason the acquisition of proprietary rights, subject to certain conditions.
Acquisitive prescription is not provided for in Soviet law until 1990, when the Act was passed ownership of the RSFSR, which means protection of actual possession. Under this law, natural or legal person, not the owner of the property, but honestly and openly in possession as an owner of immovable property for at least 15 years old, or any other assets of not less than five years, acquire ownership of the property.

[Сима]

Eugene, ie "public domain" - exhibited. published (mean, "other property" certainly "movable"? I understand it correctly?
And up to 5 years to do?

[Евгений]

Сообщение от Sima

no doubt "movable"? I understand it correctly?
And up to 5 years to do?

  You understand everything correctly, the forum has a girlfriend Lawyer http://forum.artinvestment.ru/member.php?u=1765. Should apply to her.
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Some problems of legal regulation of civil transactions of movable cultural property

DV Mazein
Mazein Dmitry V. - Lawyer (Moscow
-------------------------------------------------- --

..... Item 1 tbsp. 234 of the Civil Code establishes the rule that "a person ... not the owner of the property, but honestly, openly and continuously as owning his own real estate for fifteen years, or other property within five years, acquires ownership of the property" . Thus, the time of prescription in respect of movables, in accordance with the Civil Code, equal to five years. However, the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" for things that are attributable to the movable cultural property, has a different period of acquisitive prescription. Part 3 tbsp. 43 of the Act establishes rules for the acquisition of movable cultural property by prescription ownership: "Any natural or legal person other than the owner of cultural values, but honestly and openly owning it as their own at least 20 years, gets the ownership of this cultural value."

Читать дальше... 

As seen from the above rules, the period of acquisitive prescription, set the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" for the acquisition of ownership of movable cultural property, for fifteen years longer period of acquisitive prescription, the established art. 234 of the Civil Code of Russia for the acquisition of ownership of movable things. There is a conflict of laws. This conflict could be resolved on the basis of the provisions contained in paragraph 2 of Art. 3 Civil Code, under which the rules of civil law contained in other laws must conform to the Civil Code. The priority rules of the Civil Code before the norm of the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" can be justified also by the priority rules of higher standards of the early norm. However, if we proceed from the priority rules for a special rule over the common norm, an inverse situation. The general rule in this case, a rule established by the Civil Code, and special - a rule established by the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property", due to the fact that Art. 234 CC case of movable things in general, and in the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" - the special categories of movables - driven by things that are attributable to cultural values. Non-priority rule that a later rule on the early standard in this case can be justified as follows: at the time of entry into force of the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" acted rate Fundamentals of Civil Legislation of the USSR and the Republics (Part 3 of Art. 50) which sets the same as Art. 234 Civil Code, the period for the acquisition of ownership by prescription ownership of movables (five years). Thus, the rate of the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" at that time was of a special character in relation to the norm of the Fundamentals and was later. In our view, the extension for the acquisition by prescription of movable cultural property in comparison with other movable things four times is quite justified in terms of protecting the ownership of movable cultural property. However, the situation of conflict of norms of acquisitive prescription, contained in the Civil Code and in the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property", is abnormal and should be resolved by the legislator.
Another difference between the rules of acquisitive prescription, contained in the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property", from a similar provision contained in Art. 234 Civil Code, is the absence in the first condition of continuity of possession of a thing. What is the meaning of this exemption is not entirely clear. We believe that this difference is a consequence of a trivial error that occurred at the stage of development or adoption of the Act. If we assume that the legislature intentionally excluded the condition of continuity of possession, then the right of ownership of cultural property by virtue of acquisitive prescription is necessary to know her 20 years in total, with the cultural value may change the owner and then return to the original owner. Breaks in the possession of the same legal value have not, and the terms of ownership should be cumulative. This situation would not follow the rules for acquiring property rights to ownership limitations set forth in Art. 234 Civil Code (the faithful, open and continuous possession of the thing as his own), as well as theoretical views on the acquisition of ownership by prescription ownership.
Special responsibility of the person holding the thing, attributed to cultural values, is to ensure proper maintenance of this thing. This obligation is formulated directly in the RF Constitution, the Federal Law "On Objects of cultural heritage (historical and cultural monuments) of peoples Russia, the Federal Law" About the Museum Fund of the RF and museums in Russia, "the federal law" On Export and Import cultural values, "Fundamentals of the legislation in Russia about the culture, the RSFSR Law" On Protection and Use of Historical and Cultural Monuments ", the Regulation on the Protection and Use of historical and cultural monuments.
The concept of "maintaining the cultural values" in these regulations shall not be disclosed, but this concept can be derived through their analysis and interpretation.
It appears that the proper content of the things that are attributable to cultural values, is:
1) ensuring their physical safety, prevention of damage (loss of their qualities);
2) implementation, as appropriate, measures for their repair (restoration);
3) adoption of measures to prevent theft;
4) prevent the transfer of cultural property to a person who is not capable of ensuring their proper maintenance.
For breach of the duty of proper maintenance of cultural property to establish liability. Penalties for improper maintenance of cultural values provide the normative acts of different branches of law, and therefore differ from each other by their legal nature. Thus, Civil Code, as the possible consequences of improper (mismanagement), the content of cultural values, provides a special reason to stop the ownership of them - compulsory acquisition improvidently maintained cultural values. RF Criminal Code establishes liability for failure to return to the territory of Russia objects of artistic, historical and archeological heritage of the peoples of Russia and foreign countries (Article 190), as well as the destruction or damage of monuments of history, culture, taken under state protection, as well as objects or documents of historical or cultural value (Art. 243). RF Code on Administrative Violations provides for liability for violation of the conservation, utilization and protection of cultural heritage (historical and cultural monuments) of federal significance, their territories and zones of protection (Article 7.13).
The Civil Code contains no specific rules on the form of the transaction in respect of movable cultural property, but in Part 1 of Art. 45 RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property" such rules are established. In accordance with this provision of the transaction in respect of movable cultural property must be in writing. Thus, a special rule about the form of transactions in respect of movable cultural property is not yet installed the Civil Code, and the RF Law "On Export and Import of Cultural Property." The same Act provides for consequences of non-written form of the transaction: a transaction entered into in breach of the order shall be invalid "(Part 3 of Art. 45).
In respect of movable cultural property included in the Museum fund Russia <*>, the Federal Law "On the Museum Fund of the RF and museums in Russia," provides the state registration of transactions in the State catalog of the Museum Fund of the RF. In accordance with Part 4 of Art. 10 of the Act, the transfer of property rights and other acts of physical and legal persons to establish, change or termination of the civil rights and obligations in respect of museum objects and museum collections, are included in the Museum fund shall be made only after the registration of transactions in the State Museum Fund catalog Russia Federation. The catalog is the register of transactions (the register of action of individuals and entities aimed at the establishment, modification or termination of civil rights and obligations in respect of museum objects and museum collections, are included in the Museum fund). In accordance with the Statute of the State Museum Fund catalog transactions recorded in the register the following transactions with museum objects and collections: the purchase and sale, donation, exchange, transfer of temporary or indefinite possession or use, inheritance.
--------------------------------
http://www.lawmix.ru/comm.php?id=2484

[LCR]

I think Sim says not on the ownership of the statute of limitations, but a document of ownership, which captures the fact of purchase. Indeed, such a document is better to have, and not just for insurance.

Buying work, Shem, ask the seller that he gave you a certificate of authenticity and document that the job you had purchased.

If there are any financial and fiscal considerations, you can always change the amount or even omit it and write something like "purchase is paid.

The need to prove their ownership of a work of art to occur more frequently than might be expected, ladies and gentlemen, ask for the supporting documents and store them carefully!