Help with attribution and evaluation of the sketch

[Кирилл Сызранский]

But looks like the previous message in English-language version:

Сообщение от Mr-y

In Buru, or Trynku Point?

[artcol]

Discussion of the highest degree of refinement

[дворникТ]

Сообщение от dimurus

Canvas is really fresh, but it's lining canvases, though not seeing the edges can not be argued.

 Contacted the owner, asked to examine and photograph the edge. Indeed, you are right. Canvas double layer. Old canvas with white primer and solid paint at the edges can be easily separated from the thicker the new canvas. When will send the photo - lay out here.

 Tyrkal in the paint with a needle, said the paint is very hard. But the problem with the criterion of hardness. Not to compare with.


 Cracelures really not visible. Moreover - in some places clearly discern the structure of the canvas. As I understand it, this means that a layer of soil and paint is very thin. Artist friends said that it might mean, what might we see a simple sketch of a subsidiary, an intermediate stage in the creation of paintings. But whose hands and what year is very difficult to answer.

[usynin2]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

And you to call GE and tell us about print ermitazhevskuyu and ask: "Are you from stolen it from the Hermitage with me?" Leave your home address must be the subject of a drive up ...

But seriously: if indeed a thing of the Hermitage, it is not; requisition;? What the law says about this? I always thought that the thing with museum marks, this is a big minus, and sooner or later have to be free! return.

[Артём]

Сообщение от Amateur

But ... stretcher old, but years 100 - 120 (in any variant not XVII century).

Сообщение от dimurus

Canvas is really fresh, but it is lining canvases, though not seeing the edges approve nelzya.Pravda stretched it too casually for the restorer.

Absolutely agree.


Often the artists making up or even try to fake a certain similarity, not being able to display the individuality of the artist, his style. We Husepe de Ribera is always a huge Underpainting, ie invoice, the masses of bright colors, which softened after a thin glaze.
Here are two of the author. All of them can be seen and texture and deep craquelure, the second, the 17 th century. In this work certainly restored.
Show work even copy.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от usynin2

But seriously: if indeed a thing of the Hermitage, it is not; requisition;?

This thing is not.
Such printing many saw and now we see on the forum, please. It's a sales gimmick for the "reinforcement" Invented Provenance.
Plus, you can even hint to the buyer : "You're in the Hermitage, then now do not carry, take away a thing as belonging to them."
In general, if the visible marks of the museum, this museum should be and be in the first place and there to find out about all these labels on things.
Well, much the word "requisition" very much out of the revolutionary lexicon for some.
revolutionary Soviet authorities confiscated mansions manufacturers and gave them to the workers, (c)
рабочии because they live since.
Revolutionary keep step!
Tireless enemy never sleeps! (c)
Requisition Yet this forced removal of property from the owner.

[дворникТ]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

In general, if the visible marks of the museum, this museum should be and be in the first place and there to find out about all these labels on things.

 Well, after all? Theoretically? If you abstract from this particular sketch? To bring into a museum piece with a tag of this museum, they check the archives of their funds and suddenly recognize that this thing was once in museum stores and the label is real. What are the next script? Maybe there is some time ago?

[Игорь Гурьев]

Picture pretty fresh in mind.

It is possible that only recently written.

Well, in general, written, carefully.

But this is the same Ribera, like, say, Botticelli.

[dimurus]

Сообщение от dvornikT

The old canvas with white primer and solid paint at the edges can be easily separated from the thicker the new canvas

Master 17., Especially Spanish and Italian, was used as a rule, colored ground, sometimes without add chalk, I did a cosmetic restoration Ribera's paintings from private collections, there was a red bolus ground, overlapping texture of the canvas. But this is not important to sozhaleniyu.Eto likely to copy a painting by Ribera's "Behold the man" from the Hermitage http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-... = 19 & y = 11

[дворникТ]

Сообщение от dimurus

master 17., Especially Spanish and Italian, was used as a rule, colored ground, sometimes without the addition of chalk, I did a cosmetic restoration of Ribera's paintings from private collections, there was a red bolus ground, overlapping texture of the canvas . But this is not important to sozhaleniyu.Eto likely to copy a painting by Ribera's "Behold the man" from the Hermitage

 Has laid the promised photos of edges. It did not very distinctly, but if you watch live, it is obvious that the old canvas pasted on a new footing.

  Thank all revoked for possible help and some clarification of the situation. Now I obviously that this work is unrelated to the 17 th century has not.

  But at the same time, I do not think that this kind of fake, deliberately performed in order to deceive. All too illogical for such a version of the absence of a signature, destroyed the inscription on a stretcher, museum wax stamp, a time, making it more difficult sale. Well, what fool would buy this without a serious review? And is it for rogue himself provoke and initiate the verification of the authenticity of deep?

 I myself think that it's still 19 century. Some artists have access to the Hermitage with a resolution to make sketches. It could be as obscure graduate of art school, and the figure named. Wax stamp (if it is true) gives hope that this sketch was once archived museum some invertarnym number.

 I will seek the solution of how and to whom specifically from GE to address this issue. With great appreciation I will take advice (as in the organizational and legal plane).