A good artist - a successful artist?

[DSF]

I have to respond in detail to the distinguished Art-lover, but for me, almost all made the LCR!! I said to her, and add almost nothing. All the point.
I only have one more consideration. We know the artists who lived a short life, but had a lot more than any other in his life - Masaccio, Vasilyev or Modigliani ... They succeeded. We know the artists who have renounced family - Bryullov, Degas, Gauguin, the same, which his wife did not forgive the fact that he threw a good life ... They coped. And the artists who had been seriously ill? Renoir, who said, "between painting and legs, I choose painting, Kustodiyev, chained to his bed said:" For every step I'm standing in front of "sold out" - that "it is impossible, inaccessible, impossible." And ... to the eastern Yogi - "do not want anything, do not want" ... when all seems logical reasoning can not reach. I so much want to, of course, for me, inaccessible, or Frida Kahlo? Oh, they had every right to complain about the difficulties and lay down their arms, nobody would not reproach them. But they survived.
      Do not get me wrong, I do not call for asceticism and monasticism. I just want to say that the difficulties - that is no reason to lay down their arms, and that the real talent will find out and to be realized.

Ninni High-quality material needed in any case - especially in art.

Dear Ninni! I completely agree with you. Just when I talked about the ideas I had in mind beautiful ideas, not literary (left Cossacks - Tartars on the right), the word "beautiful" I've highlighted in italics (probably not). But the ideas expressed in the picturesque picturesque means. And of course the material is of great importance, it is impossible to deny. That's why I quoted the words of Renoir's "good-quality paint. I just think that really is a matter of course.

[Marina56]

Senior Gumilev, for example, considered the artist teacher of nature, but he probably understood this, at least, in its own way. Borges said that "the gates are included ..."

[Art-lover]

Each pessimist secretly hoped that the optimists will be able to convince him. That's my position DSF and LSR on the question of realizability of talent impresses more than their own skepticism. However, it is clear that this question is too existential to have a definite answer - too closely, he merges with the region is not only hypothetical but also metaphysical:

Originally Posted by LCR

Of course, when you see the work sooner gone a great artist, bear to think what we have been deprived. But by itself this is an infinite sadness, frustration, this suggests that the artist realized that - he left things in full force showing his talent - otherwise, what would we regret?

All true, but why is the infinite sadness, if we are confident that the talent has manifested itself in full force? ...
If

Originally Posted by LCR

And yet, the talent always realized.

, then such a serious problem we have:

Originally Posted by LCR

Our main problem, I think it is rather to find it, do not pass, because the information very much, and it is filtered in some way, which you both time and talk.

?
But in general, I agree here with the LCR: this is a constructive problem, which should be addressed, and which has not yet been solved even in principle. fross has already allocated some points to this problem:

Originally Posted by fross

А где вообще могут показать свои работы художники без существенных материальных затрат? And so that they could see and give their assessment of the specialists?

Maybe it's time to move from the theme "A good artist - a successful artist?" to the topic "What can I do to make a good artist had a better chance to implement?

But the minimal conditions for creativity - it is only one facet of life, which relates the fate of talent. The second line - is that some of the poets (Pasternak and Tsvetaeva?) Defined as "innate wound high souls." Lack of peace in the soul, eternal dissatisfaction with himself and the world, "unreasonable" depression, a dispute with God, friction with the neighbors ...
This side of life is only slightly dependent on our position. Below - is not an exhaustive list of "sold" by artists who have set a point in his creative destiny.

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The first part of the list drawn up based on Wikipedia, a second, complementary, take c American site and left (so far) without translation.

Arshile Gorky
(born Arshile Gorky, actually Vostanik Manuk Adoyan, 1904, Jorge, Vaspurakan, Western Armenia - July 21, 1948, Sherman, Connecticut, USA) - American artist of Armenian descent, one of the founders of the "abstract surrealism." Year of death Hills was full of tragic events: burns workshop Hills along with the works, the artist reveals cancer, he gets in a car accident and broke her arm, deprived of the opportunity to paint, but his wife leaves him, taking their child. At the age of 44 years Gorky commits suicide.

Belloli, Andrew Franzevich
(1820-1881) - painter, portrait artist and salon painting.
The creative activity of A. Belloli has developed in Russia and his work happily brought him fame, but in 1881 the artist committed suicide.

Borromini, Francesco
(Italian: Francesco Borromini; actually Francesco Castelli, Italian. Francesco Castelli, September 25, 1599, Bisson, Ticino - August 2, 1667, Rome) - Italian architect, the most radical representative of the early Baroque. Burned the manuscripts and drawings, and then committed suicide. Pierced a ceremonial sword and die within 24 hours.

Witte, Emanuel de
(niderl. Emanuel de Witte and Manuel de Witt, niderl. Manuel de Witt, approx. 1617, Alkmaar - 1692, Amsterdam) - Netherlandish painter. Notable for the extremes in behavior, was a gambler, a bully, now and then to go into debt, constantly changed the place of residence, breaking contracts with traders painting. After the break with another creditor hanged winter's night on the city bridge.

Gamburd, Moses Efimovich
Moses Yefimovich Gamburd (until 1940 known as Max Gamburd, rom. Max (Moisei) Gamburd; October 6, 1903, Chisinau Bessarabia Province - July 14, 1954, ibid) - Bessarabian Romanian and Moldavian sculptor. A few days after his solo exhibition in Chisinau, and being one of the most influential artists of the republic suddenly committed suicide

Gogh, Vincent van
March 30, 1853, Groot-Zundert, near Breda, Netherlands - July 29, 1890, Auvers-sur-Oise, France). Committed suicide on July 29, 1890, fatally wounding himself with a shot from a pistol. According to his brother Theo, who was with Vincent in his death moments, the artist's last words were: La tristesse durera toujours ( «grief will last forever").

Gottlieb, Maurice
(Ukrainian Маврикій Готтліб, Pol. Maurycy Gottlieb, 21 or 28 February 1856, Drogobych, then Austria - July 17, 1879, Krakow) - Ukrainian and Polish artist, Galician Jew.
Died suddenly (presumed to have committed suicide)

Dominguez, Oscar
(Spanish Oscar Dominguez; January 7, 1906, Tenerife - December 31, 1957, Paris) - Spanish painter and sculptor, one of the brightest representatives of surrealism. Committed suicide by cutting his wrists

Jullian, Philippe
born Philippe Simun (born Philippe Jullian, 11 July 1919, Bordeaux - 25 September 1977, Paris) - French writer, secular chronicler, collector, graphic artist, book illustrator. Prose Jullian awarded motives gomoerotiki, transvestism, sadomasochism.
Suicide.

Cassandre, Adolphe Murony,
better known as AM Cassandre (January 24, 1901 - June 17, 1968) - an influential Ukrainian-French painter, lithographer, artist posters and designer of the font. In 1963 he creates the world-famous logo Yves Saint-Laurent.
In 1968, the depression leads AM Cassandra suicide in Paris.

Kirchner, Ernst Ludwig
(German: Ernst Ludwig Kirchner; May 6, 1880, Aschaffenburg - June 15, 1938, the Frauenkirche-Vildboden near Davos) - a classic of German expressionism. In 1937 the artist counted among the Nazis to the representatives of "degenerate art", 639 of his works removed from German museums. Exhausted by illness and addicted to drugs painter commits suicide

Lembruk Wilhelm
  (German: Wilhelm Lehmbruck; January 4, 1881, Maeder, now consisting of Duisburg - March 25, 1919, Berlin) - the prominent German sculptor, painter and graphic artist. Suicide.

Maksimovic, Vsevolod
(1894-1914) - Ukrainian avant-garde artist, beginning of XX century. In 1914 he played a major role in avant-garde film "Drama in the cabaret Futurists. Shortly thereafter, he committed suicide. Most likely, the reason which pushed the artist to such a step, was the failure of his personal exhibition in Moscow. According to another version suicide caused unhappy love

Meninsky, Bernard
(born Bernard Meninsky; 1891, Ukraine - 1950, London) - British artist. The son of Polish Jews. Suffered from mental illness, committed suicide.

Moll, Karl
(German Carl Moll; April 23, 1861, Vienna - April 13, 1945, ibid) - Austrian art nouveau era artist. In 30-ies. Moll proved himself as a convinced National Socialist. In 1945, when Soviet troops entered Vienna, Carl Moll, together with his daughter and her husband committed suicide in his villa.

Paskin, Jules
(otherwise - Pasco, Paskhin) (born Jules Pascin, in fact, Julius Mordecai Pinkas, 31 March 1885, Vidin, Bulgaria - June 2, 1930, Paris) - Bulgarian painter and graphic artist of the Paris School, a citizen of the United States (since 1920), most of life lived in France. Paskin, from his youth muchivshiysya depression and constantly doubted his own gift, committed suicide by hanging himself in a Paris studio.

Rothko, Mark
(born Mark Rothko, name at birth Marcus Ya Rothkovich, September 25, 1903, Dvinsk - February 25, 1970, New York) - American artist born in Latvia, the leading representative of abstract expressionism. The creative artist's rise was interrupted by cancer have been revealed by the artist, which he preferred a voluntary way. Slashed her wrists in his New Yoruskoy studio.

Soroka, Grigory
(real name is Washi? lev Magpie - wrong name, correct - Sorokin.) 15 (27) November 1823, the village Pokrovsky, now Tver Oblast - 10 (22) April 1864, ibid) - Russian painter. From the serfs. Once epomeschik Miliukov Sorokin ordered flogged for some fault, after which the artist committed suicide - hung himself. He was buried in the church wall.

Staël, Nicolas de
(born Nicolas de Stae "l, 5 January 1914, St. Petersburg - March 16, 1955, Antibes, France) - French painter of Russian origin, one of the greatest masters of postwar European art. In 1953, de Stael is experiencing severe nervous crisis, and hiding in the southern France, where unexpectedly commits suicide, jumping from the window of his antibskoy workshop.

Tsyurn, Unica
(born Nora Berta Unica Ruth Zu "rn; July 6, 1916, Berlin - October 19, 1970, Paris) - German writer, painter, sculptor.'s friend and model of Hans Bellmer. Bellmer After a stroke, which left him almost immobile, Tsyurn committed suicide on leaving the psychiatric clinic, jumping out of windows of Parisian apartment.

Stauffer-Bern, Karl
(German: Karl Stauffer-Bern) (2 September 1857, Trubschachen, Canton of Bern - January 24, 1891, Florence) - Swiss painter, graphic artist and sculptor. Commits suicide by taking a lethal dose of medication.

Jeanne Hébuterne
(born Jeanne He'buterne; April 6, 1898 - January 25, 1920) - French painter, famous model and an informal artist's wife Amedeo Modigliani. When Modigliani died, the family of Joan brought her home, but totally distraught girl two days after Modigliani's death had thrown out the window on the fifth floor.

===========================================

Alexander, Henry (ca. 1860-1894) American painter
Drank carbolic acid.

Arbus, Diane (1923-1971) American photographer
Took a lethal dose of barbiturates and slashed her wrists.

Gertrude Margaret Lowthian (1868-1926) English architectural historian.
Overdosed on sleeping pills in Baghdad.

Bonvin, Le'on (1834-1866) French watercolorist
Hanged himself from a tree in the forest of Meudon, after a Parisian dealer rejected his paintings.

Bugatti, Rembrandt (1884-1916) Italian sculptor and draftsman
Put on one of his finest suits and gassed himself.

Bupalos and Athenis (active ca. 540-ca. 537 BC) Greek sculptors
Rumored to have been driven to suicide by the nasty, albeit poetic, written attacks of Hipponax (who apparently didn't like their sculpture of him).

Carrington, Dora (1893-1932) English painter and decorative artist
Shot herself a few weeks after the death of her companion, Lytton Strachey.

Crevel, Rene '(1900-1935) French Dada and Surrealist poet
Gassed himself the day before the Congress of Writers for the Defense of Culture met in Paris.

Cziga'ny, Dezso "(1883-1937) Hungarian painter
Committed suicide in a psychotic fit, but not before killing his family.

Daswanth (active ca. 1560; d 1584) Indian miniature painter
Stabbed himself with a dagger.

Dayes, Edward (1763-1804) English painter, draftsman and printmaker

Doort, Abraham van der (1575/80-1640) Dutch wax-modeler, drawing-master and administrator
Left this world despondent over the thought that he might have misplaced one of Charles I's favorite miniatures.

Erhard, Johann Chirstoph (1795-1822) German painter and printmaker

Fagan, Robert (1761-1816) English painter, archaeologist and dealer
Jumped out of a window in Rome.

Frank, Jean-Michel (1895-1941) French designer
Leapt to his death in New York City after having been there for one week. Purely coincidental.

Fries, Ernst (1801-1833) German draftsman, painter and lithographer
Slit his wrist.

Gagneraux, Be'nigne (1756-1795) French painter and engraver
"Fell" out of a window in Florence.

Gerstl, Richard (1883-1908) Austrian painter and draftsman
Disemboweled himself with a butcher knife after a brief romantic fling with the wife of the composer Arnold Schoenberg.

Gertler, Mark (1891-1939) English painter
Tightly sealed up a room and turned on the gas ring.

Greco, Alberto (1915-1965) Argentine painter, sculptor and performance artist
Overdosed on barbiturates, and left notes about how it felt (for as long as he could, anyway).

Gros, Baron Jean-Antoine (1771-1835) French painter
Drowned himself in the Seine

Haydon, Benjamin Robert (1786-1846) English painter, teacher and writer
Shot himself, then cut his throat.

He'buterne, Jeanne (1898-1920) French painter
Pregnant with their second child, she leapt from a third-story window two days after her partner, Amedeo Modigliani, died of tuberculosis.

Johnson, Ray (1927-1995) American painter, collagist and performance artist
Committed "Rayocide" one Friday the 13th by jumping off a Sag Harbor bridge and backstroking away.

Kahlo, Frida (1907-1954) Mexican painter

We're fairly certain she overdosed on painkillers, though the coroner's report read, "pulmonary embolism."

Kricke, Norbert (1922-1984) German sculptor

Kruyder, Herman (1881-1935) Dutch painter and draftsman
Committed suicide in a psychiatric hospital.

Kurzweil, Max (1867-1916) Austrian painter and printmaker
On leave from his position as war artist in Istria, he did it in Vienna.

Lefe `vre, Robert-Jacques-Franc, ois (1755-1830) French painter

Lemoyne, Franc, ois (1688-1737) French painter and draftsman

Lo Savio, Francesco (1935-1963) Italian painter and sculptor

Lombardi, Mark (1951-2000) American draftsman
Hanged himself in his Williamsburg, New York studio.

Malaval, Robert (1937-1980) French painter and sculptor
Shot himself in the head.

Maurer, Alfred (1868-1932) American painter
Hanged himself in the doorway of his father's bedroom.

Mayakovsky, Vladimir (1893-1930) Russian poet, playwright and artist
Shot himself.

Mayer, Constance (1775-1821) French painter
Cut her throat with the razor of painter Pierre-Paul Prud'hon, who'd been her teacher and then her lover but was not, apparently, going to be her husband.

Min Yo (ng-hwan (1861-1905) Korean calligrapher and painter
Was so strongly opposed to living under the Protection Treaty being enforced by Japan, that he decided not to.

Minton, John (1917-1957) English painter and illustrator
Took an overdose of Tuinal.

Pellizza da Volpedo, Giuseppe (1868-1907) Italian painter
Hanged himself after the deaths of his wife and son.

Re'quichot, Bernard (1929-1961) French painter, collagist and writer

Robert, Louis-Le'opold (1794-1835) Swiss painter
Killed himself in Venice, in front of his easel, on the 10th anniversary of his brother's suicide.

Sage, Kay (1898-1963) American painter and poet

Seymour, Robert (1800-1836) English printmaker and painter
Shot himself in the garden at his home in Islington.

Soares dos Reis, Anto'nio (1847-1889) Portuguese sculptor, engraver and teacher

Stauffer-Bern, Karl (1857-1891) Swiss printmaker, painter, sculptor and poet

Tilson, Henry (? 1659-1695) English painter and draftsman
Shot himself through the heart with a pistol over the unrequited love of a wealthy patroness.

Vaughan, Keith (1912-1977) English painter
Chose to overdose, rather than live with bowel cancer, kidney disease and depression.

Watanabe Kazan (1793-1841) Japanese painter
Committed an honorable suicide after a run in with the Tokugawa shogunate (over its isolationist policies) led to his being under house arrest.

Witkiewicz, Stanislaw Ignacy (1895-1939) Polish writer, art theorist, painter and photographer
When the Second Army invaded Poland, he tied himself to his lover, fed her poison and slit his wrists. She regained consciousness. Him - no.

Wood, Christopher (1901-1930) English painter
Stepped in front of a train.

Xue Ji (AD 649-713) Chinese calligrapher and scholar-official
Forced to commit suicide after somehow becoming embroiled in a plot to poison the new emperor.

[Sandro]

Art-lover, as all this sad !.......

Would not it be all good artists lived on as Monet, Renoir, Da Vinci .....

[LCR]

Originally Posted by Art-lover

All true, but why is the infinite sadness, if we are confident that the talent has manifested itself in full force ?...

Sadness is not because the artist himself did not show, but because it could create other works, which no one sees. For example, and since we've talked on this branch of the de Stael, I very much believe whatever portraits de Stael wrote in his latest fashion (early portraits, 1940's. There) - that we will never know ...
How much work could still write Masaccio, Botticelli, Van Dyck, Van Gogh, Soutine ...
Even the artist who has lived lived relatively long lives, leaving drags with unrealized projects. At the hospital, Misha said differently, once, when someone told him, so get well, you write, he replied - no, I already wrote that he wanted. But at other times he told me: "when I get out of here, I will write very differently." How differently? I do not know what I would not have given up to get the answer to that question (a "written differently," he was a lot of time in his life - he did not belong to the category of artists who have something on this one and settle down) .. .

Originally Posted by Art-lover

Maybe it's time to move from the theme "A good artist - a successful artist?" to the topic "What can I do to make a good artist had a better chance to implement?

This is a question to which I have no answer, so I said nothing.
Each decides his own way. Roginsky, for example, either in Russia or abroad, did not go "hang out" and stopped to offer their works in galleries, if something happened, it is almost beyond him. I was with him quite agree - the main thing - do not fall into humiliating situations, nothing ever ask for. and even now it continues - about him write his fellow artists (it's interesting how recurring references to it in interviews with the artists it is), well, a few critics who consider him a significant artist. That is, the relative fame came to him once without his intervention.

How can an artist be? I do not know. Roginsky an example to anyone cause I can not too harsh was his experience.
In any case, do not agree to pay the exhibition, art historians have never paid for the article - it is humiliating, and moreover, simply does not make sense ...

Originally Posted by Art-lover

However, the minimum conditions for creativity - it is only one facet of life, which relates the fate of talent. The second line - is that some of the poets (Pasternak and Tsvetaeva?) Defined as "innate wound high souls." Lack of peace in the soul, eternal dissatisfaction with himself and the world, "unreasonable" depression, a dispute with God, friction with the neighbors ...
This side of life is only slightly dependent on our position. Below - is not an exhaustive list of "sold" by artists who have set a point in his creative destiny.

Yes. This is another issue without a solution.

There is another aspect of the problem: sometimes, the lack of peace in dusche "is, and talent, like, and they're gone.
That is: how razdichit real talent?

Here, think now, dear lovers of the beautiful, all my hopes on you - you are so smart, if anyone could answer me all these questions, so this is you

[Ninni]

Originally Posted by LCR

he did not belong to the category of artists who find one thing and complacent) ...

A very appreciate and respect this is a rare quality.

[color="# 666686"]Posted 12 minutes[/color]

Originally Posted by LCR

  Roginsky, for example, either in Russia or abroad, did not go "hang out" and stopped to offer their works in galleries, if something happened, it is almost beyond him. I was with him quite agree - the main thing - do not fall into the humiliating situation, never have to ask.

Few people will understand and appreciate but it's only correctly (personally, my opinion) but this must be worthy of pride associated factor 2 - lack of children which no matter how trivial but must be fed and present a faithful partner in life - separating all the difficulties and always-in the words of support.

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by Art-lover

A pessimist secretly hoped that the optimists will be able to convince him. That's my position DSF and LSR on the question of realizability of talent impresses more than their own skepticism. However, it is clear that this question is too existential to have a definite answer - too closely, he merges with the region is not only hypothetical but also metaphysical:

All true, but why is the infinite sadness, if we are confident that the talent has manifested itself in full force? ...
If
, then such a serious problem we have:

But in general, I agree here with the LCR: this is a constructive problem, which should be addressed, and which has not yet been solved even in principle. fross has already allocated some points to this problem:

Maybe it's time to move from the theme "A good artist - a successful artist?" to the topic "What can I do to make a good artist had a better chance to implement?

But the minimal conditions for creativity - it is only one facet of life, which relates the fate of talent. The second line - is that some of the poets (Pasternak and Tsvetaeva?) Defined as "innate wound high souls." Lack of peace in the soul, eternal dissatisfaction with himself and the world, "unreasonable" depression, a dispute with God, friction with the neighbors ...
This side of life is only slightly dependent on our position. Below - is not an exhaustive list of "sold" by artists who have set a point in his creative court

ART-LOVER. I think a lot depends on the person, milieu, where he was studying, was educated, became a painter. Stamps behavior-promotion as an artist someone must spin the patrons of the arts-to be found, the dealer's need to please and so on. As you can see everywhere dependent on someone. In life-promotion requires a lot of money, promote, and often are not in talent. Patrons simply robbers receiving pictures of almost nothing. Traders even worse, almost always very narrow-minded people, which dictated the direction of a commercial artist, the artist is trying to earn money so that later, and then not happen.
Exit I see in expanding the opportunities that work wherever possible. Promising artists little, but they can make good money, that did Vollar. I must work.

[Самвел]

Recently read a book by Karl Jaspers. The relationship between schizophrenia and creativity are very amusing book. I think that the artist is someone, almost all artists were deviations, ie were not of this world. The question always arises why, surely one must have what the deviations. And generally transmitted whether these deviations in the work itself, and who is able to see them.

[Pavel]

Leave this part alone artists. Look for the strengths and weaknesses of artists. This will help you piobresti really valuable thing. It must be well-versed in the ways not to fall for the bait of charlatans and compilers. Therefore galleries are divided by areas, although this conventional division-important purchase or in an art gallery. You can buy a very expensive now, but the important thing to buy with a guarantee to sell at a profit. When Vollar even propose such a scandalous work of an artist like Cezanne, the princes of buying it was confident that buying precious thing - that's what the reputation of the merchant, and the artists he was honest.
The artist inside a burning flame, which allows him to see the brighter and happier than the average man. That's all.
Apollinaire found a Picasso and began leading the whole direction of modern art. Something we have not observed this. Even where prices come from is not clear.

[Art-lover]

Originally Posted by LCR

How can an artist be? I do not know. Roginsky an example to anyone cause I can not too harsh was his experience.

In my opinion, it makes sense to speak here only of the talented artists with heavy experience. Who happier way adjacent to the society, whose work corresponds to the fact that the public expects from art, to solve their problems (especially in the presence of talent, skill and ambition)))

Originally Posted by LCR

how to distinguish between real talent?

What really simple! Ministry of Culture together with the Academy of Fine Arts should be maintained for artists badges "Ready to creative accomplishments" and "Talent 1 (2,3) degrees" - and everyone will see who is who.

With all the confusion of views on the art of the surrealists, the denial of their talent, and so on., Their home "aesthetic" category - "a true artist" - a would in our disassembly. (Subsequently, for "non-genuine" in the slang word appeared accurate - "plastics".) Just do not ask, by what signs to distinguish the authenticity of no. This correlative categories: plastics for spectators is only a plastic reality, authenticity, and if they felt, how severe allergy.
Eye - part of the brain, we see what we know and do not see the emphasis in the unknown. When the content of the picture is trivial, the viewer gets a feeling of security and pleasure of recognition. If the same platitudes and more elegantly covered in canvas and filed with the unusual perspective - the joy of the audience has no boundaries.
Original paintings are in a discovery - hence the fact that most can not recognize or feel too uncertain. Such pictures "visible" only those who are immune to the same intuitions as the artist. The fact that the souls of people's feelings, only dimly glimmering, finding expression in the paintings gets "real" artist's material manifestation. Creativity is becoming more like an artist for these people rallying symbol for the artist and the appearance of even small reference group gives a foothold in life.

So, LCR, presented here interesting - and not all well-known artists, you not only destroys the cultural provincialism, but also - and a terrible thing! - Sodeystvuete realization of communicative functions of art - teaches us to make discoveries and communicate in such cases. While attending training on well-known names, and there, you see, do and learn new discoveries ...

Professional virtual communities, participants are able to maintain long enough to free and committed, which opens new horizons of communication can, I think, become an influential real contributor to the disclosure of the really interesting phenomena in the art. In principle, the most important and most difficult part of any such Wirth. Society - conservation of momentum, motivating enough. the number of pros for the continuation of such communication (theme "The Ideal Forum" - part of the same problem).