Help with attribution and evaluation of the sketch

[дворникТ]

Good day. Sorry that first post after registering immediately for assistance.

  Helped to identify with the artistic and the market value of the thumbnail pictures Ribera. Oil on canvas, size 450 * 360. The work is very beautiful, good condition. No signature, on a stretcher, traces of the destruction of 3 lines of a text. On the back of the preserved piece of wax seal "Imperial Hermitage is located partly on a stretcher, partly on the canvas.

  As a family legend that picture long ago beat someone in card scampish grandfather, shame on the family, love of life and rake. Recently, after the death of his grandfather, she inherited inherited my friend. He argues that 5 years ago saw that the wax seal of the Hermitage was a full-size.

 Your opinion?

[Amateur]

Сообщение от dvornikT

wax stamp Hermitage

In this case, you best go to the Hermitage.

However ... stretcher old, but years 100 - 120 (in any variant not XVII century). The caption with it scraped recently: the tree is not oxidized. Canvas - as if made yesterday. Modern copy, stretched on an old stretcher ...

[dimurus]

Сообщение от Amateur

In this case, you best go to the Hermitage.

However ... stretcher old, but years 100 - 120 (in any variant not XVII century). The caption with it scraped recently: the tree is not oxidized. Canvas - as if made yesterday. Modern copy, stretched on an old stretcher ...

Canvas is really fresh, but it is lining canvases, though not seeing the edges approve nelzya.Pravda stretched it too casually for the restorer.
Concerning the price-that's the latest sale at Sotheby Ribera PROPERTY FROM A PRIVATE COLLECTION
JUSEPE DE RIBERA, CALLED LO SPAGNOLETTO
JÁTIVA, VALENCIA 1591 - 1652 NAPLES
SAINT ONOPHRIUS

400,000-600,000 USD
Lot Sold. Hammer Price with Buyer's Premium: 1,426,500 USD to stream to orient in price look here http://browse.sothebys.com/?sla=1&sl...h=-1&year_high =- 1 & woi = & office =* & sale_title = & sale_id = & lot_id = & dp = Old + Master + Paintings & count = 50 & v = l & slasort = 0 & search = +
In any case, the name of a level one-way to the Hermitage

[usynin2]

Сообщение от dimurus

Canvas is really fresh, but it is lining canvases, though not seeing the edges approve nelzya.Pravda stretched it too casually for the restorer.

And the painting of that time could well survive without a single cracelures?

[dimurus]

Сообщение от usynin2

and paintings of that time could well survive without a single cracelures?

could not in principle, but the photos often do not make out fine reticular craquelure paint layer, especially on dark backgrounds, the work may be duplicated, and therefore krakeler stowed in strengthening, and finally 17vek-vertex painting technology, and many works of that time look better than the early work. 20 century

[дворникТ]

Сообщение от dimurus

Canvas is really fresh, but it's lining canvases, though not seeing the edges can not be argued.

 Contacted the owner, asked to examine and photograph the edge. Indeed, you are right. Canvas double layer. Old canvas with white primer and solid paint at the edges can be easily separated from the thicker the new canvas. When will send the photo - lay out here.

 Tyrkal in the paint with a needle, said the paint is very hard. But the problem with the criterion of hardness. Not to compare with.


 Cracelures really not visible. Moreover - in some places clearly discern the structure of the canvas. As I understand it, this means that a layer of soil and paint is very thin. Artist friends said that it might mean, what might we see a simple sketch of a subsidiary, an intermediate stage in the creation of paintings. But whose hands and what year is very difficult to answer.

[dimurus]

Сообщение от dvornikT

The old canvas with white primer and solid paint at the edges can be easily separated from the thicker the new canvas

Master 17., Especially Spanish and Italian, was used as a rule, colored ground, sometimes without add chalk, I did a cosmetic restoration Ribera's paintings from private collections, there was a red bolus ground, overlapping texture of the canvas. But this is not important to sozhaleniyu.Eto likely to copy a painting by Ribera's "Behold the man" from the Hermitage http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-... = 19 & y = 11

[дворникТ]

Сообщение от dimurus

master 17., Especially Spanish and Italian, was used as a rule, colored ground, sometimes without the addition of chalk, I did a cosmetic restoration of Ribera's paintings from private collections, there was a red bolus ground, overlapping texture of the canvas . But this is not important to sozhaleniyu.Eto likely to copy a painting by Ribera's "Behold the man" from the Hermitage

 Has laid the promised photos of edges. It did not very distinctly, but if you watch live, it is obvious that the old canvas pasted on a new footing.

  Thank all revoked for possible help and some clarification of the situation. Now I obviously that this work is unrelated to the 17 th century has not.

  But at the same time, I do not think that this kind of fake, deliberately performed in order to deceive. All too illogical for such a version of the absence of a signature, destroyed the inscription on a stretcher, museum wax stamp, a time, making it more difficult sale. Well, what fool would buy this without a serious review? And is it for rogue himself provoke and initiate the verification of the authenticity of deep?

 I myself think that it's still 19 century. Some artists have access to the Hermitage with a resolution to make sketches. It could be as obscure graduate of art school, and the figure named. Wax stamp (if it is true) gives hope that this sketch was once archived museum some invertarnym number.

 I will seek the solution of how and to whom specifically from GE to address this issue. With great appreciation I will take advice (as in the organizational and legal plane).

[дворникТ]

Сообщение от Amateur

In this case, you best go to the Hermitage.

 Thank you for your prompt response. And not prompt the most optimal way for my case to apply to the Hermitage?

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от dvornikT

And do not prompt the most optimal way for my case to apply to the Hermitage?

And you are in the GE call and tell us about print ermitazhevskuyu and ask: "Are you from stolen it from the Hermitage with me?" Leave your home address must be the subject of a drive up ...
Do not forget to copy the Protocol to withdraw himself to leave, then it will walk around the office, pick up a masterpiece is finished with "attribution and evaluation.