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Art Kaleidoscope Interesting and relevant information about art. Discuss general art issues and any topics not covered in other forums. It’s only about art — love, politics, sports, hobbies etc. are discussed in “Chatter”.

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Старый 05.10.2011, 23:21 Язык оригинала: Русский       #1
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По умолчанию Where is the line between plagiarism and influence of another artist

Good evening !

Got an interesting artist \\\\ sculptor in years already , interesting work , but ... it's all someone else's work. And he had periods , then an artist, a sculptor, is yet another artist . So many went through . Some work directly copy , he said that only " inspired ", but seen as a strong inspiration was what came out the same way. >

I wonder where the line between copying ( plagiarism) style of one artist ( a sculptor, an installer ) and the influence that was exerted on one another. It's very interesting to hear how every man for himself opredyalyaet this time. If possible with examples.

Thanks in advance .

PS By the way , Richard Pettibone no one is accusing of plagiarism , on the contrary show suit and actively sold. An interesting phenomenon , if someone can explain why.
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Старый 06.10.2011, 01:38 Язык оригинала: Русский       #2
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Сообщение от iside; 1795693"
I wonder where the line between copying ( plagiarism) style of one artist ( a sculptor, an installer ) and the influence that was exerted on one another
Very interesting, yes .

Immediately recalled the words nebezysvestnye Cezanne :

   « Oh , this gentleman Gauguin, you just listen ... Oh, that Gauguin ... I had her , a little vision of the world , just a tiny ... Nothing special ... But it was my ... One day this gentleman Gauguin stole him from me . And with him gone.
My poor ... He carried it with him everywhere: on the ships , according to different America and Oceania, through sugar cane plantations and grapefruit ... Has delivered to the Negro ... yes I know! Do you think I know what he did with it ... And I, what am I doing ? The poor , humble my vision !».



1. P. Cézanne . Fruit . 1874

2. P. Gauguin. Still Life with Apples and Green Vase . 1890




Последний раз редактировалось I-V; 06.10.2011 в 03:09.
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Старый 06.10.2011, 20:51 Язык оригинала: Русский       #3
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Iside, you have a lovely habit of asking questions, no answers in the usual sense .
Pettibon is not a plagiarist . Now this is called simulationism , that is the intentional use of others' images ( in most cases, a well-known , because if the image is not " recognized " lost all sense made ​​), made so that there is no doubt that playing someone else's work ( although you can play even in other vehicles , such as painting a sculpture, or other material such as porcelain in a stainless steel pisuar ) , that is, it's like to put that in quotes to use quotations in a literary work - that is , look, it's not mine .
That is the theory . Practice , as we know , "can a lot of gitik " (this quote , no plagiarism ) ...



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Старый 06.10.2011, 21:00 Язык оригинала: Русский       #4
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Сообщение от iside; 1795693"
I wonder where the line between copying (plagiarism) style of one artist (a sculptor, an installer) and the influence that was exerted on one another. It's very interesting to hear how every man for himself opredyalyaet this time. If possible with examples.

Thanks in advance.

PS By the way, Richard Pettibone no one is accusing of plagiarism, on the contrary show suit and actively sold.
An amazing coincidence, just recently had a lecture to answer this question a claim to Mr. J. Newton Pusenkoff. Can be used as an example, only a court decision yet. I think this example interesting because it involves a Russian artist ...

From the subjective point of view: the artist can offend everyone. And every artist the right to use other people's ideas when creating his work. Yes, otherwise it can not be all the ideas have long been thought up before us.

From a legal point of view, the boundary runs along the boundary of the copyright. If you do not go into details, only the author of the original work or his successors to decide what kind of damage caused to their copyright, whether they should go to court to prove something, and so, considering all costs, and that they will benefit from this ... Or, conversely, it is better to use an extra opportunity to remind the world about the author of the original work and see what happens ... Everyone decides on their own, so probably nobody today and not in a hurry to blame anyone of plagiarism. Yes, and it is difficult to prove anything ... The judges are no less subjective than the artists. One word - the creators!
 
To paraphrase, it is necessary to "search for someone (at first) and what (specifically) favorably" at the moment. Well, that "everything flows, everything changes", I think, remind too.



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Старый 06.10.2011, 21:26 Язык оригинала: Русский       #5
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Сообщение от fabosch; 1797223"
Iside, you dear habit of asking questions, no answers in the usual sense.
fabosch, heh > I'm trying to do something does not clutter up the information space on trifles, and so such questions are obtained, which can not or herself to find answers or next to no one who would help to understand why you have to write on the board.
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Сообщение от fabosch; 1797223"
Pettibon not a plagiarist. Now this is called simulationism, that is the intentional use of others' images (in most cases, a well-known, because if the image is not "recognized" lost all sense made), made so that there is no doubt that playing someone else's work (although you can play even in other vehicles, such as painting a sculpture, or other material such as porcelain in a stainless steel pisuar), that is, it's like to put that in quotes to use quotations in a literary work - that is, look, it's not mine
It is for this thank you very much, just try to look for articles with the word simulationism. If you have any links please share please.
update: It turns LCR has opened up topic where it was writing about and I even read it and forgot.
LinkLink.
And searching on behalf of David Salle and Sherrie Levine leaves the term appropriation art is to say Hmm, interesting.
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Сообщение от Maroussia; 1797233"
And every artist the right to use other people's ideas when creating his works
Thank you Maroussia, right-he has a right, but here I am interested in this practical point, if I, for example, as a young gallery owner decide to exhibit an artist who works in someone else's style and I see it, but present it as a mere "inspiration" and will let a competitor and then wrote in his Twitter, they're put up one that is all copied from such and such. An example of an exaggerated, but I'm here this border has not yet caught the like to be? Critics have not found here. >

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Сообщение от Maroussia; 1797233"
amazing coincidence, just recently had a lecture to answer this question a claim to Mr. J. Newton Pusenkoff. Can be used as an example, only a court decision yet.
Maroussia, like is already there:

Цитата:
The discovery of Newton was not recognized by law
       One of the biggest scandals in the copyright field with the participation of Russian contemporary artists came from artist George Pusenkoff, now in its fifth year resident in Cologne. Like all contemporary artists who use elements of postmodernism, Pusenkoff used citation, using one of his paintings silhouette naked girl, posture, and even reflections and shadows, copy the model of one of the works of the famous photographer Helmut Newton, the famous series due to artistic nudes nude pictures. In the picture Puzenkov plagiarism is not very clear: a rough and unattractive (as opposed to the original) shows the silhouette of a girl deathly purple and black, and "all the fun" closes the yellow square. Actually, the work called Puzenkov quite ironic - "Power of Blue". As luck, that the painting was exhibited at the Venice Biennale and caught the eye of Maitre photos. Newton was outraged, believing that in front of him - the handiwork of malicious plagiarist. Pusenkoff, in turn, meant that the open source citation flattering to the author, because it - a sure sign of recognition of the artistic credibility of international importance. However, the master "on the world" not to go, clearly hinting Puzenkov attorneys that cite everything is possible, but subject to deductions related to the author. In the first phase immediately followed the trial in Hamburg Regional Court granted the petition of Newton, prohibiting the display picture Puzenkov and distribute its reproduction. Pusenkoff sold the painting for a very high price - 16 000 DM, while simultaneously filing a court appeal. On the day that was signed in print this issue of "Money", we caught up with Cologne, where the artist lives, over the phone. Here is what he George Pusenkoff:
       - Today I won the Newton process. I appealed to the Supreme Court in Hamburg, and this Court recognized that I was right. All of his absurd claims removed. After the first trial I was forbidden to exhibit the work, otherwise I was threatened with fines and prison almost. Now all these sanctions lifted from me, besides, Newton, pays all court costs are paid by lawyers. One might also submit a claim for compensation for moral damage, but it would be a different story. The absurdity of the situation, in my view, is that picture, an object made with his hands, it's a completely different area of ​​perception, than a photograph. Of course, this quote, but when used in the artwork quote, she used the stone as a tool used for construction - building and goes another. It may be, in addition, any other elements.
       Well, considering the volume of world-wide fame of Newton, of exceptional interest to the Western press has just completed the final litigation and unprecedented - few expected the court will take the direction of artist-émigré from Russia - the current owners of the ill-fated pictures this week could make a fortune.
This
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Последний раз редактировалось iside; 06.10.2011 в 22:09. Причина: Добавлено сообщение
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Старый 06.10.2011, 21:35 Язык оригинала: Русский       #6
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Сообщение от iside Посмотреть сообщение
Good evening !

Got an interesting artist \\\\ sculptor in years already , interesting work , but ... it's all someone else's work. And he had periods , then an artist, a sculptor, is yet another artist . So many went through . Some work directly copy , he said that only " inspired ", but seen as a strong inspiration was what came out the same way. >

I wonder where the line between copying ( plagiarism)
The border runs for the money ... (oh, the money) . If he (the artist ) of copies , then put in his wall in his studio is one thing , if it makes a profit - border drugoe.Est sostoyaniya.Mane wrote his " Olympia ," Titian borrowed the composition for the " Venus Urbinskoy " and "Breakfast on the Grass" ( or "Bath ") at least Rafaelya.Tem he introduced the modern paintings (he ) characters , processed and written to svoemu.Nikto now they are not considered plagiarism ...



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Старый 06.10.2011, 21:49 Язык оригинала: Русский       #7
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Сообщение от Peter; 1797283"
Manet wrote to his " Olympia ," Titian borrowed the composition for the " Venus Urbinskoy " and "Breakfast on the Grass" ( or "Bath ") at least Rafaelya.Tem he introduced the modern paintings (he ) characters , processed and written on them now svoemu.Nikto plagiarism does not believe ...
Ok, let practical terms need to be able to determine the percentage of borrowed and interest added by the artist to realize his idea of ​​a force and that he settled down well in the style of famous artists who uses just his mercantile purposes. >
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Старый 06.10.2011, 22:05 Язык оригинала: Русский       #8
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Well, too appropriatsionizm of this opera. One of his most famous representatives - the notorious Koons.
In addition to the Internet in Russian is such an entertaining book - Ekaterina Andreeva (works in RM), "Postmodernism ," which appeared in the series "New Art History " published by ABC Classic in 2007
In general, the entire culture is based on postmodernizam plagiarism ( in the old sense of the term, now replaced by kotorok a series of glamorous new catchphrases )
But in general, agree with the " previous speakers ": a complicated, inefficient and unpredictable test (but it seems to me , the only accepted ) - this Court
With regard to all the other criteria can refer only to " gitikam ."
By the way noteworthy in this regard, numerous disassembly on " mimicry " brands. That's remarkable instances of plagiarism ...



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Старый 06.10.2011, 22:06 Язык оригинала: Русский       #9
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Сообщение от iside; 1797263"
but here I am interested in this practical point, if I, for example, as a young gallery owner decide to exhibit an artist who works in someone else's style and I see it, but present it as a mere "inspiration "and will let a competitor and then wrote in his Twitter, they're put up one that is all copied from such and such.
An example is really overdone, especially, that you just wrote today on this forum:

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Сообщение от iside; 1795693"
Got an interesting artist \\\\ sculptor in years already, interesting work, but ... it's all someone else's work. And he had periods, then an artist, a sculptor, is yet another artist. So many went through. Some work directly copy, he said that only "inspired", but seen as a strong inspiration was what came out the same way.
And what do you think that after such publication, someone will start to tear my hair out, or close a successful exhibition of the artist will become less popular. On our times - so I think its popularity will only increase ...

But the bad consequences can occur only if someone is acting in a lawful right, or want an artist or gallery owner to court to prove them wrong. Precedents enough, and to my regret, for the most part, they are resolved in favor of the artist, not the original work. Prove all very complicated ...

And by the way, in vain you so skeptical about the post
fabosch, he used the word "applied" art, but in case law has long used such concepts as imitation, borrowing, derivative work, even appropriation (in addition to plagiarism). What is called "making a difference ..."



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Старый 06.10.2011, 22:19 Язык оригинала: Русский       #10
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Сообщение от Maroussia ; 1797333"
What do you think , after such publication , someone will start to tear my hair out , or close a successful exhibition of the artist will become less popular. On our times - so I think its popularity will only increase ...
Maroussia, Nuuu .... I live in a place where paintings are exhibited , discussed and sold very few people , most of them in the subject dealt 3 times less than me . Can you imagine the situation. No one likes competition , and I know how to operate individual characters, so I'm trying to understand some issues better, to anticipate their actions, which have already seen in relation to other galleries.
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Сообщение от Maroussia ; 1797333"
And by the way , in vain you so skeptical about the post
No, not skepticism, is perfectly normal , I do about this term is not heard , or rather forget , was surprised to read the topic LCR and saw that I was even there once Spasibki set . Even though I read all day about modern art , trying to grasp the immensity , but sometimes something important still falls out of the scheme or forgotten.
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