"Theft, forgery" as a separate section of the forum
 

We have not the first time a popup issue of stolen paintings and forgeries. Grandpa has just encyclopaedia fakes Stozharov created, for which he once again Thanks a lot!

I propose this: create a separate partition on the forum "theft, forgery" (well, or something in that spirit) and group out there right to the authors all information we have. At the forum because auction houses are - at least Dorotheum, Christie, scoops ... Certainly all the others. Yes, and dealers may also be useful.

And just for the artists to create a separate branch in this section - a sort of handbook stolen. Pictures, descriptions. Remember stealing artworks Gavdzinskogo? It is known that the paintings were injured in a fire, ie Such a thing could be recorded.

A section "Expertise" for falsification does not fit? After examination in the ground and engaged in the definition of authenticity. Again the sections will overlap, and will again be a muddle. And besides, theft and forgery - things are fundamentally different.

In principle, the "Survey" is suitable, but I think that the intersection will not, because I propose to create a guide that will be topics for discussion, only informational messages. So far, from memory, I see there are the branches: "Stozharau, theft," "Stozharau, forgery," "Ryasnyanskii, theft," "Gavdzinsky, theft," "Roginsky, forgery" - it is only what immediately comes to mind . Information Only.

Admin, yes, fake it, and let them be there.
I now know where to take links there "dive" for the material.
And for the "theft" can be divided to make. Yet in a separate section of the material will be little better subsection.

fully agree with Allena. I would also systematized by the artists. The only thing it would be nice in this form: for example, section Stozharau ", and inside 2 of subsection" theft "fake" ... so it will be easier to look

It's all very subtle.
If I, say, with the maximum precision can tell a fake job or not, I can not say that trabota stolen, until I submit the evidence. And not caught, as you know, not a thief.
I went to, for example, in one gallery and tell the staff that work stolen.
Here one should call up, the "up" calls is even higher and as a result I have been informed that the work was bought at Izmailovo collapse.
How do I prove that it is not so??
Nobody would believe that there is a psycho who keeps track of all the work of the artist.
On the other hand, have you noticed that the dynamics of fakes on Stozharov slowed down? Obviously, this is the result of our discussions with you (Tell me, genius: D)
Concludes: an ambiguous work should speak out loud, and then the war will maneuver.
He took off after work Tyukhtin Vukolova auction after the last statement that the work is stolen! Who wants to spoil the reputation?

Right.
We must agree.

And what meaning svyazavatsya counterfeiting, when about it a few days to learn everything ARTinveste?
Neither the owners of fakes, dealers have no such situation is not interesting, especially all already know how to reach you and that you always respond to inquiries and questions.

dedulya37, may not be to use the phrase "theft" and such "dubious origin" or the like ...

I agree, then it "doubtful appearance at artrynke."
"It is doubtful background" does not imply author.

Do not envy those who have acquired a good expensive thing, suddenly discovers that the thing stolen.
Inquiries should be build in advance of purchase.
"Doubtful origin" - not a suitable definition.
Rather would say "doubtful reputation" for a dealer in stolen property, "the questionable appearance" for stolen goods.

I would like to recall that the "theft" is a criminal act. And if not prove the fact of "theft", the answer on paper for libel and for moral uscherba.Tak that, be careful with opredeleniyami.Reestr samples "dubious origin"
up 80%from rotating on the market materiala.Krome to the criteria of "uncertainty" everyone has his own - that takes some PUPKIN and declare that all of your pictures "of dubious origin "..... same thing with fakes ... . Try arguments declare the forgery, and in return will tell another tale has been taken and brought from London, with an iron and Provenance signed by the nephew of Mariupolya.A sells, he also wants to eat and his children, and spent on the production again . Also make it any more what can not ..... Here and chose this art profession. Purchase "falshaka" is a good incentive to study the object.
So, the new pile sections with amateur lists more interesting material to fill the existing, the more there is estimation and examination.

You still say that all the information about the origin of the paintings are best build in the militia.
Tell me more, Ukrainian or Russia's court - the fair trial world.
The only reliable way to protect themselves from theft - do not allow themselves to rob.
If you do not advance to protect themselves from theft, lost will not return. There is a saying "forewarned - forearmed.
When you know in advance about the specific facts of fraud is much easier to avoid the nuisance in the future.
P.S.
If so take some PUPKIN and declare that all of your pictures "dubious origin" without justification, that same PUPKIN publicly show its inadequacy.

The question of public name-calling "stolen" or "fake" is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
We should not forget that the art market in post-Soviet space and in the environment of its residents abroad, there by historical standards all anything. More recently, buying works from their authors or by collectors made without issuing any documents. Often these were gifts for the artists and and other support. Well, if the artist is alive, and you stayed with him on friendly terms. And if not? Unscrupulous heirs, if they provide a secure platform, may well be publicly accuse you of stealing, even if for reasons of eliminating competitors. And you immediately acquire the reputation of a man who "either stolen, or whether he had stolen, in general, with whom it is better not to communicate.

With counterfeiting more difficult. Imagine a situation where you know that the product is a rough copy of this that you possess, and photos which you have survived. However, the relatives and heirs of unscrupulous (or unskilled, but recognized), experts say that a fake script. In the first and the second is a sufficiently strong motivation for such activity with almost complete impunity, and you, in the case of a public statement, either as a slanderer or malosveduschim.

I'm not talking about the theft as an event, but an indictment of someone in the commission.
If you want to steal - stolen. And not what locks are not pomogut.Osobenno if "put an eye" state. Unscrupulous heirs artists also did not graze the rear. In any case, the presence of a receipt, check on purchase or any other document certifying the right to own, today neobhodimo.No that is another topic.

Here, nobody do not blame anyone.
Who will buy? Buying stolen goods could seriously spoil the reputation.
In such cases, the more impossible to remain silent. We can not allow the State to get involved in expropriation.
I find it difficult to talk about unscrupulous heirs. I know very little.
On behalf of all the heirs of artists can not speak. I can only say about myself. Fakes do not know how. Donated, sold or even stolen (with the exception of one "Portrait of the daughter, ie me) do not ask to return. Some paintings had to buy.
I think that any bad faith on the need to fight the promulgation of confirmed facts.
You are absolutely right.