Riddles Fayum portraits.

[художник Федотов]

A lot of questions I have accumulated to Siim wonderful artifacts ...

 Primarily interested in the technological component manufacturing OP ( Fayum portraits) ... The reasoning only in terms of cabinetmaker , without it claims ...

Very subjective , unscientific story about the OP ... What then? ? ... Where ? ? ? ... Who ? ? ? ...

 Somewhere around 1880 , in some of the tsarist empire , when fashion went on collecting antiquities , suddenly began to emerge some strange artifacts of antiquity, such unusual portraits dosochki ... And all of them the same hour, went to a known private collection, say it was the best for the preservation of things ... Then they successfully moved to correct the Metropolitan Museum ...

Business went well and showed up a Viennese antiquarian of which went to our wonderful things ( about 1885 ) ... Once it went successfully , it was worth it urgently okuchit and correct arts institutions correctly : in St. Petersburg and Paris and London ...

But in people and institutions have already experienced then ask: Where do you suddenly scored as many artifacts ? ? ? ... Clearly, says brought Ragman , this morning ... They spoke honestly of the right things Egypt brought ...

But what will fit for the private meeting in Moscow , is not exactly the right suit , metropolitan institutions ... They say , Let me see , my friend provenance us ... Will you provenansik ... Kindly ... Renowned Egyptologist vpryagsya for that antiquarian : says steep artifacts those little things ... They do little shells ... then our antiquarian famous specialist , a major expert in any antiquities in Egypt the same ...

Major success : the traveler arrived at some Egyptian Fayum oasis and saw firsthand how the Bedouin shepherds built a fire to keep warm ... It is clear that they were burning pyre of the last 50 ... OP aesthetes ... Lay those portraits on mummies (the official version OP attached to the place of "person" on the sarcophagus ) , in the ground, almost 2000 years and then, just for the arrival of the expert, all mummies unearthed , stripped them OP and made ​​a fire of them ... Expeditions else there could not really find anything ... But 50 magnificent OP they saw in the fire for sure ... just after this performance , OP and called " Fayum portrait " ...

It is clear that from this provenance could not disown any Hermitage or the Louvre or London to New York ... I can tell you Steep provenance , now you will not find this ... Iron and concrete ... However, later also one specialist spud those institutions successfully ... vtyuhivali them some gold figurines ... When asked where little things ? ? ? ... he says some in the garden Little Russian grandmother digs out ... they looked at the other grandmother and garden and say horseradish in you provenance ... the Louvre, then in 1906 (?) buying artifacts for some reason recognized those little things .... and fuflovymi grandmother and garden there is, and the little things ... fuflovye strange logic ... not that here neither Bedouin nor artifacts , all burned ... And you say : the provenance is not important ...

In fact, with a minimum of distinct information , try to analyze what we see through the eyes and ears do not ...

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First , it is striking to what made ​​this product ... Most of the artifacts of Fine Arts had been performed on the boards or canvas, paper or cardboard ... ... Why is there such thin , unusual board ? ? .. .

It is clear that to make a record of 1.5 or 2 mm thick is not so easy ... They say most of the planks of basswood ( very appropriate name of the tree ) ... According to some sources and thickness dosochek all close ...

Always pedaliruetsya answer about good , dry climate of Egypt , where such a magical way to keep all artifacts arts , including our favorite OP ... seen many times asked the uncomfortable question ... It is clear that thin dosochki very well in that climate This ... we planks icons, canned many times , bent as they wish , through some hundred years ... And they do not ... Dry -s ...

  Sense , it is clear there was nothing in the 1st century to suffer by making artisanal tonyusenkie , wooden board ... If you want to try to make it yourself at home, preferably without iron tools ... We are in the 1st century , together with our OP ...

Unsubstantiated guess that those dosochki gladenkie and similar thickness were ordinary veneer ... Veneer done 3 ways ... sawing , planing and peeling ... You can still log splitting wedges , as is done in Siberia hunting skiing, but not talk about it ...

I am most interested of all: veneer peeling ... This is when the log is inserted into the lathe , it slowly turns and cutter removes a thin shavings ... When that " chips " glued overlaid across, get plywood ... What seemed a good way to Shelling : minimum price and, more importantly , in this veneer will not " annual rings " ... We need annual rings ? ? ? ... No, of course ... Suddenly , museum workers look at and compare the transverse spil with samples of known ... Specialist today quickly tell what veneer made ​​of OP ... But who will show him their ...

 Machines for the production of veneer in Europe invented relatively recently ... Of course, in the Fayum oasis known them for many millennia before, and therefore able to create a beautiful ... OP machine to create the veneer peeling method was invented in g.Revele (Tallinn , Ross.Imperiya ) in 1819godu ... Germans towards the end of the century caught up ... Oh no mere veneer this thing ...

If you move away from the veneer , the painting is very similar to the OP Greeks and Montenegrins portraits executed in the manner of artisans ... But seen : and of chiaroscuro and about the " classics " are the masters heard something ...

However , we must admit , this story is much darker than it seems ... There is no Bastrikin not help us ...

[K-Maler]

Сообщение от artist Fedotov ; 2993441"

Very subjective, unscientific story about the OP ... What then? ? ... Where ? ? ? ... Who ? ? ? ...

Revision "only" is now engaged mathematician Fomenko. Looked his videos.
Jerusalem was in another place . The Battle of Kulikovo was not there. Tomb of Tutankhamun - fake and everything else like that .... Scaliger era , etc.
Fayum portraits did not look like the work of the Egyptian , Roman ... more

[художник Федотов]

Сообщение от K-Maler; 2993561"

revision "only" is now engaged mathematician Fomenko. Looked his videos.
Jerusalem was in another place . The Battle of Kulikovo was not there. Tomb of Tutankhamun - fake and everything else like that .... Scaliger era , etc.
Fayum portraits did not look like the work of the Egyptian , Roman ... more

 
Adjusting , Fomenko and joined him Nosovskii known physics ... This " antiscience " originated over 30 years ago on Physical Dept., Moscow State University, where I " come from " ... I have this theme watch professionally for over 20 years ...

Without higher mathematics education opponent debate on this subject I will not ...

Let me remind you , FN Timeline significantly different from the traditional to the 16th century ... I am talking about is essentially in the 19th century , or rather its end ... Then they match ...

Since most of the humanities not really know anything about the history FN and everything just do not understand its meaning , I deliberately pretend, which is also about her did not hear anything ...

However , it is nice that you have reminded me ...

[Pecheneg]

Сообщение от artist Fedotov ; 2993441"

Business went well and showed up a Viennese antiquarian of which went to our wonderful things ( about 1885 ) ... Once it went successfully , it was worth it urgently okuchit and correct arts institutions correctly : and St. Petersburg and Paris and London ...

 Fayum portraits were discovered in 1615 by Pietro della Valle, one of the graves and as exotic curiosities sent to Europe. They exhibited in the Kunstkammer , and they impressed the audience . Subsequently, such portraits began to find in other places ( Memphis Akvinume etc.) , but the place is the first big finds they were called " Fayum ».

And how do you prokomentiruete these things . Sarcophagi , it is also a fake, and the thickness of themselves dostochek clearly thicker veneer ..

[K-Maler]

Сообщение от artist Fedotov ; 2993621"

Without higher mathematics education opponent debate on this subject I will not ...

I am by no means a supporter Fomenko. He Nosovskii act convincingly ... But looks " over the top" ...
I was not too lazy and esteemed special about Scaliger . literature ... could be wrong .... Then I took up the history of the papacy , believing that they somehow succeeded each other and the names of all known ... There was the discovery that the Inquisition was not " in the Middle Ages ", and in the Renaissance, it was then when we lived all the most famous artists ....
But most of all I liked about Jerusalem ...
Most " excessive " statement - about the tomb of Tutankhamun ... That Napoleon was going to go back , almost forgot ... there stool

[художник Федотов]

Сообщение от Pecheneg; 2993671"

Fayum portraits were discovered in 1615 by Pietro della Valle, one of the graves and as exotic curiosities sent to Europe. They exhibited in the Kunstkammer , and they impressed the audience . Subsequently, such portraits began to find in other places ( Memphis Akvinume etc.) , but the place is the first big finds they were called " Fayum ".

And how do you prokomentiruete these things . Sarcophagi , it is also a fake, and the thickness of themselves dostochek clearly thicker veneer ..

I'm talking about somewhere fake? ? ? ... What are you ? ? ? ... It was suggested that perhaps the OP written on veneer and all ... In the need to understand professionals and I do not understand anything ...

The sarcophagus is a normal , beautiful coffin made ​​of wood, which has been fully found in Egypt, and not all at once in 1885 ... This beautifully made ​​sarcophagus with the Zodiac which swotting as much as I am a carpenter and painter say ... Yes, with the zodiac on it is necessary to tinker : (check that it is and where does ) ... And make clumsy portrait task different scale ... <! - ~ 7 ~ -> Do you like how clumsy and awkward looks on the sarcophagus key ? ? ? ... Do you like the provenance OP ? ? ? ... And why AF between the two , found in 1615, and 1885 no one heard about OP ? ? ? ... the sarcophagus was much as anything, and no AF ... And about 1615 <! - ~ 7 ~ -> happily refer you to his friends and Fomenko NOSOVSKY ...

Special thanks for quoting wikipedia and laying open the photo ... I due to poor knowledge of the computer is not able to do ...

Added after 11 minutes 52 minutes

Сообщение от K-Maler; 2993711"

in any case not the opponent Fomenko. He Nosovskii act convincingly ... But looks " over the top" ...
I was not too lazy and esteemed special about Scaliger . literature ... could be wrong .... Then I took up the history of the papacy , believing that they somehow succeeded each other and the names of all known ... There was the discovery that the Inquisition was not " in the Middle Ages ", and in the Renaissance, it was then when we lived all the most famous artists ....
But most of all I liked about Jerusalem ...
Most " excessive " statement - about the tomb of Tutankhamun ... That Napoleon was going to go back , almost forgot ... there stool

When I was over 20 years ago , said about a certain fellow Fomenko , who tirelessly creates some new story: they responded very uncomplicated ... you know me a little bit ... I say: You and cranks on the letter M , and another even more nasty letter ...

After analyzing several thousand pages of boring text - Fomenko Nosovsky with boring formulas and computer programs , concluded from a scientific point of view it is useless to oppose ...

One may talk about the flaws of their mathematical model of "history" , but what they are to the ground " dismantled " orthodox history : there is no doubt ... <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от artist Fedotov ; 3006061"

Looks like OP delivered a junk dealer not far from the Fayum oasis , but somewhere naive artist in our time ( 19veka ) ( average between Pirosmany and Van Gogh ) rivet their relatives in some isolated areas then type Croatia- Bulgaria - Greece ...

Two Fayum portrait of Saqqara arrived in Dresden museum back in 1626 from the Italian traveler Pietro della Valle .

[художник Федотов]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzran ; 3101301"

Two Fayum portrait of Saqqara arrived in Dresden museum back in 1626 from the Italian traveler Pietro della Valle .
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Dresden Museum opened in the 18th century, some ridiculous pictures keyed found and called Fayum with the end of the 19th century ... And we live in the 21st century for a long time ... About the 17th century and has previously spoken in this thread ...

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от artist Fedotov

Dresden Museum opened in the 18th century

You mean what the museum say?

However, the history of all the museums of Dresden dates back to the cabinet of curiosities, based Elector of Saxony in 1560

[художник Федотов]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzran

However, the history of all the museums of Dresden dates back to the cabinet of curiosities, based Elector of Saxony in 1560

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A history kunskamer based Elector of Saxony in 1560 goes back to what??? ... However, it does not matter ...