Is it possible to protect from vandalism?

[Евгений]

Сообщение от qwerty

the opposite opinion

  Experienced, in my opinion, you .. its your opinion, I do not think objectively. (Given your attitude to the Soviet painting).

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Admin

But once again ask the question: what to do if some third-party expert who is not a member of the forum, I saw something questionable in the "Buy" and wanted to specifically register for the forum to announce that that thing is not true? And to do so is prohibited. Hardly the man go to the "Attribution" and it will create a special theme with a discussion paintings exhibited in the "Buy". Moreover, the sense of it will be very small.

Admin, you are asked to find the answer, or is it a rhetorical question, because you already know that "the sense of it will be very small"?

Читать дальше... 

I suggested that option when you do not need an outside expert to go anywhere and create a special theme - just give a normal position with reasoning that is not immediately published in the topic of selling the picture, and automatically sent to the existing forum of specialists.
Because it is logically the only a possible way to distinguish a specialist from the hooligan or spiteful critics (will not consider the unlikely event that "two in one").
If the forum specialists will find the reasoning of the charge, let the message published by an outside expert in the subject of questionable pictures and is open to further discussion.
Since this filtering grain from the chaff is technical in nature, it is advisable to conduct it in the unseen ( "closed") to visitors and newcomers section.

Сообщение от Admin

It is very difficult. You need to have well very strong motivation to go through all these obstacles.

What is the complexity and for whom?
For the administration, in terms of implementing the idea, big trouble is not expected.
Difficulties arise only for the extremists.

Сообщение от Admin

And - Tit law - if someone wants to harm, he will find a way to do it.

Could not find where Tit is talking about it, but in this case, you should not make absolute evil world.
Hooliganism has no serious motivation, it arises from the momentum that quickly goes out, if it can not immediately and easily ( "here and now") to implement.
In the proposed version of me - 99%No pasaran.

A simple, transparent solution that guarantees freedom and kompetenogo discussions, and protect the dignity of honest seller. If you do not reconcile easily corrected in the details, there are any objections on the merits?

However, I can guess what the complexity.

Сообщение от Tit

There is another option - not offer falshaki for sale, unless, of course, not "profane."
Everyone can make a mistake, but for the discussion and in order to understand it.

And if not submitted a fake, and the case of complex and "free" debate cast a shadow on the owner and his interests? Well, if experts discuss, and if the dispute would enter "fans"? (All are well aware that the lower the competence, the greater aplomb).

What then? Nothing! Well, bad luck, poor fellow. Wood cut - chips fly.
The idea - all people - nothing.
Sound familiar?

We may be indignant against any number of Soviet-Bolshevik, but as long as human dignity, we will respect only to itself, but in the other person to see the abstract individual, Bolshevism invincible.
And steps to implement mechanisms to protect the individual will appear to be "very difficult".
Moreover, there is also an objective factor that complicates the question: publication doubt the authenticity of the paintings vyiigryshna to maintain esprit de corps "forum, because they provide psychological justification for the statistically inevitable sales of fakes: behold, they say, were the same in some people's doubts. ..

Therefore, before discussing the topic further, it would be good to define the ideology.
Or we decide the question, "how to make the forum more objective and correct" (qwerty), and are ready for this to take certain steps, or we admit that pretends to solve.
And then descended on the brakes:

Сообщение от Admin

Moreover, the section "Buy /Sell" - not the main forum. Who wants to use it - enjoy. Who does not want ... as he wishes.

[color="# 666686"]Added after 3 minutes[/color]

Сообщение от Eugene

We have already tried this, only "council of experts" was open. ... undermine the image of the advertiser's website (the auction house "Sovkom"). ... Make sense to create out of the forum "expert advice" no.

First, when the "closed" discussion of the advertiser's image in the eyes of the public would not suffer.
Secondly in my scheme function "of the Expert Council" ( "connoisseurs of the Club, or whatever else) are quite simple: to determine the level of argumentation in the reported alleged forgery: serious, or joking if you please."

[Сергеич]

Can you give me an example of such a complex organized a forum? With interest I read your suggestions, but zastopritsya all at the formation stage of the expert council, which I also proposed. You've seen the discussion Deineki? Integrate your chart there that happen?

[Синица]

But what actually happened after a bad Deineki open discussion at the Forum?
Painting, in my opinion, sold out. Well, that's true in the world.

[Art-lover]

Sergeyitch, I remember a quote:

Сообщение от Sergeyitch

Maybe a "council authority forum" which is only in the case of clear and obvious bullying will evaluate such statements.

I have the same idea has been a long time (in connection with the theme of "ideal forum") - is precisely the case when the idea is overdue and is in the air. But - God is in the details. I propose to organize things so that in this matter, the Council decided not "judges", and preventive tasks in the case of "masked" hooliganism. With "clear and obvious bullying" would be easily handled themselves administrators if aggrieved.
For the case with Deineko (no strength to finish reading the entire branch ...) "scheme" would be handed something like a "high probability that the erroneous attribution of the" special expert opinion (if they wish).

In the "complicated organized forum.
It seems that some of my posts cause the effect of "technical documentation". Who is reading a thick manual mobile phone? None. Skuuushno. And enjoy a good stylish modelkoy easily and conveniently.
Here and here: the length of the message causes the feeling of complexity. In short it is impossible: without justification will not understand. But the practical implementation of ideas can be surprisingly natural, simple and intuitively clear.
Paphos is not to entangle forum foolish complexities, but to develop thoughtful and clear rules. (Simplify Dae, to realize the Tao).

Сообщение от Tit

But what actually happened after a bad Deineki open discussion at the Forum?

Nothing but Dejneka sold on Sovkome, but not on the forum.

[Admin]

Сообщение от Art-lover

What is the complexity and for whom?
For the administration, in terms of implementing the idea, big trouble is not expected.
Difficulties arise only for the extremists.

The vast majority of people (normal people, especially those who know the price for his words and treasure my time), knowing that their communications will take place pre-moderation, will not be anything to write. Why? There are many reasons, detailed look at them does not make sense. Can you think of it as a fact - statistics confirms this.

And then ... the idea of the expert council at the forum I was quite encouraging. Who are these people? We have the experience of the expert council on the site. This expert advice that really works and which is composed of recognized experts. So. You can not imagine what tremendous effort we should organize the work of the expert council to the real work actually carried out.

Doing the same on the forum ... with expert advice from people who are not generally recognized by experts ... very questionable idea. Yes, I admit that the qualifications of these people in some areas may be quite high. But! Once again - they are not generally recognized by experts. So, their opinions - it's just the opinions of private persons, not more. And what credibility could be at such expert advice? Visitors site very quickly formed the opinion, and quite justified, that the forum ARTinvestment.RU formed a kind of mafia in order to drag fabrications, loudly calling itself the Expert Council. And such a view is not unfounded.

[Сергеич]

Exactly. First question dissatisfied: - "Who are the judges?" And then, it is necessary that these people were available almost on-line, otherwise the forum will cease to be alive. Responses and reaction must be very rapid.
And most importantly - as a "virtual" group of experts can come to a consensus?
Will the same disputes only under the carpet.

But! This does not mean you need to stop thinking.

[Art-lover]

It seems that we are each other almost do not hear, but answer me on my same thoughts.

From post number 42:

Сообщение от Art-lover

If the experts find a forum argument sane, let the message outside specialist is published in the topic of questionable pictures and is open to further discussion.

Ie all "premoderirovanie" amounts only to a small time delay in the publication.
The argument will always be a competent specialist. Establish the fact of literacy, "sanity" for people "in the subject" does not present difficulties.
If the 20 authoritative forum participants 2.3 will find time to just state the fact "This is serious. Should be heeded" there have been reports published and further discussion is open.
Elementary filter, and no excuse for showdown.
And then, I repeat, that "the Council" will be invisible to anyone other than its members.
This is an internal structure with a highly specialized technical functions, which visitors and the majority of forum members and do not know.
Therefore, fear of rumors about some sort of mafia that smuggles in something is not necessary.

Сообщение от Admin

The vast majority of people (normal people, especially those who know the price for his words and treasure my time), knowing that their communications will take place pre-moderation, will not be anything to write. Why? There are many reasons, detailed look at them does not make sense. Can you think of it as a fact - this confirms the statistics.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics" (Otto von Bismarck)

In the proposed scheme specialist will know that his message will appear, and the time delay within days of any serious person is not deterred.

Internal obstacles arise only from those who is counting on the excitement.

[Admin]

Сообщение от Art-lover

It seems that we are each other almost can not hear, but answer me on my same thoughts.

Yes, that's for sure.

Сообщение от Art-lover

That is, all "premoderirovanie" amounts only to a small time delay in the publication.

That this is what keeps people away. 80%would not write if there is pre-moderation, because it is unknown who see your message and that he was there with him would do. It is not known what kind of man that the moderator, what is the level of competence, etc. And especially if you're a serious professional and know that people of your level of competence - units.

Сообщение от Art-lover

And then, I repeat, this "Council" will be invisible to anyone other than its members.

That is something worse. If there is no transparency, it is best to contrive nothing, otherwise ...

Сообщение от Art-lover

So afraid of rumors about some sort of mafia that smuggles in something not necessary.

... I continue my thoughts ... otherwise this is exactly what will be the first to come to mind.

Сообщение от Art-lover

In the proposed scheme specialist will know that his message will appear, and the time delay within days of any serious person is not deterred.

Well, I already commented.

Art-lover, let us conclude this discussion. I felt the administration site on the subject. To change an existing scheme we are not going because the proposed changes are much more disadvantages than advantages. Any restriction on freedom of expression inevitably leads to a drop in interest in participating in the forum. Once again I want to draw attention: forum - a platform for free (!) Communication. The restrictions apply only to speech that offends and statements that violate the law.

[Сергеич]

Within days of delay in any serious person will not scare

is the death forum. Come out as a conversation between two Finns, and if the conversation involved several people, it is already spoiled by radio. Who's Who is responsible? If you answer, and the answer does not appear immediately, then immediately thought of a forum does not work, and come again and again to track down when he appears - not seriously.