Art totalitarian

[SergeiSK]

artcol,
Take a lump of World realistic painting 1930-60 GG It is realistic, Picasso, Dali, Lansky and others do not. And compare .. I see that from the U.S. to China, from Scandinavia to the Australians (not aboriginal) was the same trend of realistic painting. In the Soviet Union added the prefix "a social ..." And what of it? Painting has become worse than once?
So it's not a lyumpenizirovannosti, withdrawal can be no question. Remarks that "there is no art, no beauty salon" also left as your personal opinion. And why "in Ukraine? So right? Then write Tallinn and call blacks African-Americans.

[fross]

I could not assume that my message will provoke a violent political and historical debate.
I then wrote about the fragility of art, and the fact that his fate could be quite different. Totalitarian art strong hands only cripple. If all the sprouts of the avant-garde not sostrigli under the lawn, we would not now discuss two directions for 80 years. And who knows, maybe in the top list of all the museums, galleries and auction would be our countrymen. And they would never have had to seek refuge in exile. The past is not correct, but even if only the future will be different.

[sss]

Shall make a reservation that I am omnivorous, not divide artists to socialist realists, nonconformists, landscape and marine painters, dark and cheerful, and I divide them in the art and artists. Can not afford to admire and chairman of the kolkhoz ", if it catches, not to mention landscapes and still lifes ...

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SergeiSK: This debate will never end. It is not art, but in the ideology of each party to the dispute. Who's lives spiritually, he even loves ...
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Just still in the art. What ideology is "Lilac" Konchalovsky?
With regards to contemporary fashion trends, so no one argues that all unqualified masterpieces. Rubbish - more than enough art festival - generally solid profonatsiya. Yes, and nonconformists are all different.
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SergeiSK: Still Socialist Realism as an independent direction, there is not a momentary fashion, but in a separate slice of world culture
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Yes, as an independent direction exists. You can love, admire and admire the skill, but argued that this slice of world culture - an attempt to jump above their heads. This is a historical, political, whatever the cut, affecting the culture of one country, and to world cultural processes, he has nothing to do. Otherwise, Chinese consumer goods - also cut global culture (caught good quality products).

Why, trying to shove Socialist Realism in world culture, it surely must be compared with non-conformism? Let us then you have a grown-up - with Van Gogh, Schiele, Modigliani ...
I'm afraid, only one Morandi, speaking of the contribution to world culture, will outweigh all the popular and highly respected together.

Nonconformists are interesting not because they fought with socialist realism, but because, being excluded from official culture and fenced off from the modern world of artistic processes that gave rise to being in this confined space, something new and most valuable personality.
Krasnopevtsev said one thing, Roginsky - another, Yakovlev - the third ... A socialist realists, all taken together and individually, they said the same thing, claiming to be different.
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SergeiSK: but agree, even by academics, social realism technique is much higher than any nonconformists. So painting class above! Compare the "Lilac" Konchalovsky and any nonconformists. And tell me one you like more? Be honest ...
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Honestly? Then say the words Norstein Yu: "The ability to draw - not the fact of art."

[artcol]

Сообщение от SergeiSK

artcol,
Take a lump of World realistic painting 1930-60 GG It is realistic, Picasso, Dali, Lansky and others do not. And compare .. I see that from the U.S. to China, from Scandinavia to the Australians (not aboriginal) was the same trend of realistic painting. In the Soviet Union added the prefix "a social ..." And what of it? Painting has become worse than once?
So it's not a lyumpenizirovannosti, withdrawal can be no question. Remarks that "there is no art, no beauty salon" also left as your personal opinion. And why "in Ukraine? So right? Then write Tallinn and call blacks African-Americans.

No, not so simplistic (read, "vulgar") approach. Fine arts are constantly looking for and invent new artistic means. Realism, not realism - in order that relates to art - it is not ideological, and classification attributes relating to a method, not to the form of reflection of reality. Socialist realism same - it sovreshenno another song. Crush it started with a form (the vanguard) and finished method (see below). Totalitarizm, however: D We were lucky tovarischchi have not lived at that time. So.

Shl You know that expression "the square-cluster method"?

[LCR]

Сообщение от SergeiSK

Here! That's our Socialist Realism also has the features characteristic of the art of that time! And art is not in the individual countries, and in the world, as the trend of that era. And this trend continued until the end of 1960. So the most rabid Socialist Realism to the period 1930-60 GG And I stress - as the direction of world art. Only in the West it is called differently, but the term "socialist realism" is ours, homegrown. In the West, this trend ended with the advent of Andy Warhol, as we have with the advent of Gorbachev ... Logically, Russia can not understand ..

I think so, not true. These general features of reality emerged in the late 20's. But embraced by (I apologize for the wording of the military, but in this case it is not fully lischena sense) especially in countries with a totalitarian regime - Germany, Italy, USSR.
In France or the United States, for example, they used far less systematic.

You erase wrongly in my view such wonderful phenomena as the second school of Paris in France and abstract expressionism in the United States - if we talk about changing trends in the U.S., it seems to me the name of Pollock's much more appropriate than the name Warhol. One could even say the emergence of national art, but can not ignore such an immense figure, as Hopper, in any case no doubt that the withdrawal of American artists from the United States associated with abstract expressionism.

Then, this "militarized" version of social realism makes me much less protest than its "peaceful" version, which I have expressed above, that is, to paraphrase you, then I would rather hang at home any nalbandyanovskoggo Lenin than its same flowers, but fortunately, this dilemma Hamlet purely theoretical - I have the house all the walls are covered with Roginsky, and it suited me just fine

[artcol]

Сообщение от fross

And who knows, maybe in the top list of all the museums, galleries and auction would be our countrymen.

I think - sure would. I hope to be. It is desirable that this was at a level worthy of Russia and its great past.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от artcol

I think - sure would. I hope to be. It is desirable that this was at a level worthy of Russia and its great past.

"Unfortunately, at this time excellent
Live not have neither me nor you ... "

[SergeiSK]

Something many of you bulk The dispute alone does not want to, although in the evaluation of the above, I am not alone, as many think. After all I conclude the dispute:

Сообщение от sss

What is the ideology of a "Lilac" Konchalovsky?

It was not about the ideology of the authors and painting, but about idelogicheskih views in the dispute.

Сообщение от sss

This is a historical, political, whatever the cut, affecting the culture of one country, and to the world cultural processes, he has nothing to do.

Is of direct relevance to the development of the world of realistic painting in 1930-60 GG

Сообщение от sss

Let us then you have a grown-up - with Van Gogh, Schiele, Modigliani ...
I'm afraid, only one Morandi, speaking of the contribution to world culture, will outweigh all the popular and highly respected together.

Yeah once with Leonardo and Raphael! Well, or Mukhin Vucheticha compared with Giacometti.

Сообщение от sss

Nonconformists are interesting not because they fought with socialist realism, but because, being excluded from official culture and fenced off from the modern world of artistic processes that gave rise to being in this confined space, something new and that most valuable personality.

You can also say that the USSR in isolation from the rest of the world, spawned in the same enclosed space for the country, its kind of art - Socialist Realism, public art.

Сообщение от artcol

shl You know that expression "the square-cluster method"?

This is selhozforum, they will tell

All ... I think once again the dispute meaningless. No anyone here does not prove anything. Time will put everything in its place ...

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от SergeiSK

Time will put everything in its place ...

And I think-market.
And in general, do not buy used now (as he did not buy into the Council of Deputies and will not buy in 5 years), this Socialist Realism and the conversation had not been there would have been nothing.
And tomorrow will start to buy later salon some and start from the West to carry, and discuss its merits.
And be allowed to take out all the west-east dart here to buy and take out there.
I-dealer, I am pragmatic and believe in the market. You can, of course, a love ugovarit musty "generals" of social realism and sell these images, but themselves, then why cheat. Socialist realism is interesting until they buy. The fashion and where are its defenders?

[artcol]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

"Unfortunately, at this time excellent
Live not have neither me nor you ... "

And can anyone: (I mean would not this at all

Сообщение от SergeiSK

This is selhozforum, they will tell

There have been quoted - the metaphor that is
While this confusion in the minds does not end on art Soviet era - these spores will not stop never. But, note, critics do not argue about it. They all clearly.