Alexei Petrovich Bogolyubov

[Meister]

but he did this on sale there? I think very rare.

[ранжер]

Bravo, Tjutchev,! You have worked nicely. Just right to issue concerned (owners of the site?) Account. But we're not here for personal gain, and the Holy art for. Not so, maestro?

But agree with you only one item. This - not Bogolyubov.

  However, if you are ready to transform his impression of a certain proposition that this landscape - carved out another piece of the picture, then and there we have with you is a consensus. But in this case, your entire argument about the composition is no longer itself.

For your considerations in favor of this version is that there was also no logical necessity from the left side in the background to depict what a small part of Toli Toli ship port facility. In addition, I shall pay attention that the dimensions of this work does not conform to the standard format of the French, that when writing this etude, it would be quite natural and comfortable.

I do not see in this marina is no color disharmony. It worked competently, confidently and soundly, not art, of course, but very professional. Stylistically very similar to the hierarchy of the French period. Precisely to say so - that his paintings of that period stylistically trudnootlichimy of equal talent with French colleagues.
There is still time, but if need be to lay out the test anonymous pictures of several artists. Let the experts and specialists will determine which of them Bogolyubov.

Without belittling the great achievements AP Bogolyubov to Russian culture, yet it must be admitted that all the superlatives in the determination of his creative contribution, given in your text, just loosely with one important reservation - only for Russian art.
In the context of European art of the 19 th century he was an artist medium capacity.
Art world can do without his work, without losing its integrity. Here, for example, without his disciples Polenova and Pohitonova can not.
He has not, so to speak, his coloristic person. Especially in the so-called Vel'skii period, while at the named students or have Kharlamov, who also worked at the Wehle, that person was, the color in their paintings immediately recognizable.
No accident that the curators of a major exhibition of Russian Art 19 th century in the Paris Museum d'Orsay are not included in this exhibit no product hierarchy. The museum represents the French art of the second half of the 19 th century, with its outstanding landscape painters, paintings and hierarchy would look at all homely.

With regard to the signature on the marina under consideration, then, in my opinion, it is made of solid professional hand, well reproducing the incertitude and the uncertainty of the hand hierarchy. Among the numerous signatures of the artist in the databases of specialists and there is.

When this picture was seen on the forum for the first time, I expressed doubt that the AP Bogolyubov, who has lived in France for many years, could be so grossly wrong to show the place - HAVRE. If local residents to ask how to get to Havre, you simply do not understand. In French, the name of this city inseparable from the article Le. Correctly only LE HAVRE. Someone replied that he had seen similar inscriptions on his paintings in museums. If so, then the general hierarchy in France had problems not only with artistic self-identity, but also with the French.

What remains for us, my friend Tjutchev? As a not-hudozhnecheski inflicted by the signature and name of the place, but the assumption that if a piece of another picture of hierarchy, it is unlikely that this would be a marina, he was putting on a special frame and sign it.
  (According to the French mind stretcher and canvas and nails more than 100 years, ie, as they say, all native. I think, an expert on this fact had its effect).

Admittedly, not many.
However, there is intuition. In such a delicate case like ours, gentlemen, we must not ignore our intuition.

Yes, a colleague, is obliged to warn. Negative atributiruya online this picture, we are with you take out of public distrust of the well-known specialist Bogolyubov - VA Petrov.
Say leniently - put him in appearance.

Well, you, master, look man, not timid, not pasuyuschim to authorities. You yourself own authority!

In this regard, I have an idea to speak with the appeal to Vladimir Aleksandrovich, now that the dispute about the authorship of the three marina we are with you in the majority.

Still wait for your consent. Suddenly you change your mind.

[Евгений]

RUSSIAN PAINTING XVIII - early XX century. Full academic catalog Saratov Chersonesus Museum im. Radishshev

The catalog, training which lasted for many years, includes all 1,051 works of Russian artists, stored in the museum collection.

Format: 22х28 cm, 560 pages, illustrated., Hardcover, M., 2004
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Very useful book for art dealers, collectors.
In the catalog of more than 200 works of Bogolyubov AP
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Сообщение от Tjutchev

For the hierarchy of the sketch is too weak. Do not forget that during the lifetime of Bogolyubov was recognized not only in their homeland (which in itself is not enough), but also among the masters of French painting at that time. But that's another story.

In the catalog of studies introduced are weaker studies ...

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от ranzher

Success, Tjutchev,! You have worked nicely. Just right to issue concerned (owners of the site?) Account. But we're not here for personal gain, and the Holy art for. Not so, maestro?

Besides the fact that communication with forumcanam for me nice and helpful, I have had some, as you put self-interest. By the way do not see anything wrong.

Сообщение от ranzher

However, if you are ready to transform his impression of a certain proposition that this landscape - carved out another piece of the picture, then and there we have with you is a consensus. But in this case, your entire argument about the composition is no longer itself.

Not see the need to transform their experiences in what - whatever judgments you to achieve a consensus. And not because they do not respect your opinion, but because they do not see any reason to change their own. What exactly do you feel weak in my reasoning? Give the part of my reasoning, which appeared to you in error. And only then can I explain you my point of view in greater detail. Otherwise, I'll be forced to recognize your non-constructive criticism. Kindly colleague, specifically.

Сообщение от ranzher

I do not see in this marina is no color disharmony. It worked competently, confidently and soundly, not art, of course, but very professional. Stylistically very similar to the hierarchy of the French period. Precisely to say so - that his paintings of that period stylistically trudnootlichimy of equal talent with French colleagues. There is still time, but if need be to lay out the test anonymous pictures of several artists. Let the experts and specialists will determine which of them Bogolyubov.

Your picture is very weak. If you do not see in it the color disharmony, I hardly can tell you anything to help. To put it the same level with the original works of Bogolyubov's ridiculous. Compare, for a start, your picture with the work that I put in my post. Pay attention to the fact that they are similar in size to head lice, and they depicted Havre (http://forum.artinvestment.ru/showpo...mp;postcount=9). It is strange that you do not see the difference.

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Speaking of this work, a job which could belong to brush hierarchy, and that it is made "with knowledge, confidently and soundly, not art, certainly, but very professional", you give an assessment of creativity A. AP Hierarchy. (Give at least one similar. Unless of course you do not want what I would have thought you were unfounded.) It turns out that he was a mediocre artist, craftsman, good technician, does not stand out among the "equal talent with French colleagues"? I am very glad that this view is not shared with you the many fans of the artist among his contemporaries, and among the living. From your words imply that everyone who has ever said about his work with admiration, and all those who praised his work, which was reflected in the fact that he has received during the life of a high social status and has an enviable financial position that all these people - donkeys, nothing smyslyaschie in art? Of course, everyone is free to have his own opinion, but let's not forget that Alex Petrovich - winner of the first and second gold medals of the Imperial Academy of Arts, at 34, he became an academician of the same Academy, and three years later became a professor. Let's not forget that he was recognized as their French counterparts barbizontsami, artists, whose creativity, and hence the views respected throughout the world. That is, all these people with some strange to say, and did not like that thought? Then we must admit all of them dishonest or not versed in the art of people. Do you have this courage?

Сообщение от ranzher

Without great achievements AP Bogolyubov to Russian culture, yet it must be admitted that all the superlatives in the determination of his creative contribution, given in your text, just loosely with one important reservation - only to Russian art.
In the context of European art of the 19 th century he was an artist medium capacity.
Art world can do without his work, without losing its integrity. Here, for example, without his disciples Polenova and Pohitonova can not.
He has not, so to speak, his coloristic person. Especially in the so-called Vel'skii period, while at the named students or have Kharlamov, who also worked at the Wehle, that person was, the color in their paintings immediately recognizable.
No accident that the curators of a major exhibition of Russian Art 19 th century in the Paris Museum d'Orsay are not included in this exhibit no product hierarchy. The museum represents the French art of the second half of the 19 th century, with its outstanding landscape painters, paintings and hierarchy would look at all homely.

Apparently, you do not belong to the admirers of Russian art. Otherwise you would not say that Bogolyubov great artist only in the context of Russian art. Discussion on the role and place of our art in the global long maintained on this forum. I will say about a few general observations. In my opinion, this is totally unprofessional separate Russian art from Europe. Discussions about the secondary even more unprofessional to the extent that all the art in a somewhat secondary to something that occurred earlier. Do not forget also that Russian art, historical reasons, all 70 years of Soviet power is practically not been submitted to the international exhibition venues (or was presented in a very limited form) and, hence, could not be seen and informed world community. (By the way I have shown in the following quotation confirms Serge Lemoine.) This, incidentally, is not the case with music and literature by the fact that familiarity with the arts do not need to contact directly with the original. Keep in mind the fact that the national art has always been the most venerated in the country of origin. It's stupid because hope that the French with all his undeniably great poetry, will appreciate Pushkin!

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The claim that the hierarchy "is not a coloristic person, again leads me to believe that you are not very familiar with the works of this artist. Works Alexei Petrovich completely recognizable and have their own, but it is inherent, color harmony. Comparison of Kharlamov, Pohitonova and hierarchy, no doubt, said that the Bogolyubov more significant artist than they are. It is even a strange explanation!
       Now about the exhibition. The full name of the exhibition of Russian art in Paris is as follows: "Russian art of the second half of the XIX century: in search of identity». And the concept of the exhibition's curator says the following:
"" We admire the novels of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, adore Chekhov's play, happy listening to music by Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov and Mussorgsky, and the plastic work of their compatriots, who worked in the same era, are still for us terra incognita », - said at the opening of the exhibition director of the Musée d'Orsay Serge Lemoine. Exhibits for the four-month exhibition were selected more than one year. «We have deliberately rejected the Russian Impressionists and European trends in Russian painting, - explain the curators. - We had a very interesting fact that came out of the walls of the Academy of Fine Arts, where they brought the world classics, and then visited the centers of art - Italy and France, your artists eventually turned to national, religious and literary sources and folk traditions ».
Organizers tried to address all areas of art: painting, drawing, sculpture, crafts folk art, photography, while making no claim to comprehensiveness. Ambition of the project was to show works that have never exported from Russia is not, therefore, such attention has been paid, for example, Repin's picture "Religious Procession in Kursk Province. Russian realism presented in the exposition of the best works of the Tretyakov Gallery and the Russian Museum, including landscapes Kuindzhi "Birch Grove" and "Moonlit Night on the Dnieper," "Eternal Rest" Levitan and "Moscow court yard" Polenova. The historical and religious themes appear on the canvases of Nesterov's "Vision lad Bartholomew", "Christ in the Desert" Kramskogo and "Apotheosis of War" Vereshchagin. Demonstrated Repin's famous painting "The Unexpected" and axiomatic of the Wanderers "Life Is Everywhere" Yaroshenko and "Repair" Savitsky. Special place took the world of Russian fairy tales ( "Prince Ivan on the gray wolf" Vasnetsov and Bogatyr Vrubel). Mikhail Vrubel generally given special attention, he acts in two ways: as an artist-mystic, founder of "Demon" - sitting and flying, and "Swan Princess" and as one of the Abramtsevo active participants in the circle. "
http://www.ng.ru/culture/2005-09-29/7_francuzy.html
      As you can see, using the name of the exhibition and its concept, it originally could not be represented creativity hierarchy, because the artist while remaining deeply national, worked in the tradition of Western European art. In addition to the hierarchy, at this exhibition were not represented and the other not less than the great Russian artists. And from the fact that they were outside the scope of the concept of French curators, they have not lost their relevance. Understand that the French wanted to see "the original Russian art. Something new for themselves.

Сообщение от ranzher

With respect to the signature on the marina under consideration, then, in my opinion, it is made of solid professional hand, well reproducing the incertitude and the uncertainty of the hands of hierarchy.

This is generally a strange read. It seems as though Bogolyubov your personal enemy. Why such hostility? Why these attacks? What he done to you?

Сообщение от ranzher

When this picture was seen on the forum for the first time, I expressed doubt that the AP Bogolyubov, who has lived in France for many years, could be so grossly wrong to show the place - HAVRE. If local residents to ask how to get to Havre, you simply do not understand. In French, the name of this city inseparable from the article Le. Correctly only LE HAVRE. Someone replied that he had seen similar inscriptions on his paintings in museums. If so, then the general hierarchy in France had problems not only with artistic self-identity, but also with the French.

As to your assumptions about lack of education hierarchy, it has finally convinces me that you are unfamiliar with his work and biography. Alexei Petrovich was one of the most educated men of his time, knew several languages. And I think, certainly, in perfect command of French. Otherwise, it would be difficult to provide on the lapel of his coat the Order of the Legion of Honor, Chevalier of which he was (by the way apart from him this honor was awarded a Russian artist Aleksandr E. Yakovlev). Also remind you that Bogolyubov was well received in the imperial house (level of education of members of the royal family, I hope not cause you doubt). I think you realize that friendship with a man like Ivan Turgenev, also spoke in favor of his exceptional scholarship. Friends, this, at least, be an interesting conversationalist. It is unlikely that Ivan Sergeevich endured side by side with an incompetent and ignorant.

Сообщение от ranzher

What remains for us, my friend Tyutchev? As a not-hudozhnecheski inflicted by the signature and name of the place, but the assumption that if a piece of another picture of hierarchy, it is unlikely that this would be a marina, he was putting on a special frame and sign it.
  (According to the French mind stretcher and canvas and nails more than 100 years, ie, as they say, all native. I think, an expert on this fact had its effect).

      My friend, ranzher, all the arguments presented by you, though, and confirm my words that this picture is not the work of Bogoliubov, few are significant. At least I look at my nails, frame and signature. More important argument for me is the very painting. Because if the painting is not convincing, it does not matter what the nails hammered into a stretcher, and what signature is on the product.
 

Сообщение от ranzher

Yes, a colleague, is obliged to warn. Negative atributiruya online this picture, we are with you take out of public distrust of the well-known specialist Bogolyubov - VA Petrov.
Say leniently - put him in appearance.
Well, you, master, look man, not timid, not pasuyuschim to authorities. You yourself own authority!
In this regard, I have an idea to speak with the appeal to Vladimir Aleksandrovich, now that the dispute about the authorship of the three marina we are with you in the majority.
Still wait for your consent. Suddenly you change your mind.

Dear colleague, forming an opinion on this or that work, I of course its relation with the views of their colleagues. Sometimes these opinions are very important to me, more so in the event that material I did not know. Petrova, I agree, at least, respect him, he often consulted with him. But that deals specifically with this picture, I do not agree with him (if it indeed confirmed). I take this opportunity to say that Petrov, of course, a specialist in Russian painting of the XIX century. This questioning, at least, strange. The fact that he can not go wrong, like any other person, too, it seems to me quite natural. Do I need to make a demarche to Petrov? Personally I have big doubts about the appropriateness of the action. We are certain you understand that this is not Bogolyubov! Well, thank God!

Sincerely, Tiutchev.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от ranzher

Would not it be so kind as to comment on this picture?
It has already been discussed at the forum, but would like to know the opinion of an experienced person.

Could not find a discussion of this picture. A theme is interested in discussing it.
Someone give a link?

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от Meister

and he did this on sale there? in my opinion is very rare.

In the market of this work, AP Bogoliubov, indeed, appear very rarely. This has always been: in Soviet times, and in 90 years. Now nothing has changed, his work still rarely offered by dealers and are rarely at auction. As before, many fakes passed off as the work hierarchy. Those undisputed work, which still appeared on the market, leaving behind a very good money.
For example, three fake pictures of those that were sold at auction, and genuine, the most expensive work of the artist from ever marketed at auctions (currently):
 
1. 24.5x35 cm, 1883, oil on panel, EUR 7,200 (Auktionshaus Stahl)
2. 30h43, 5 oil on board 2.121 $ (Miillon & Associes 29.05.2009)
3. 38h18, 5 oil on canvas not sold (ArtCurial 23.03.2009)
4. Moscow 1878. 73h92, 3 3.305.033 $ (Shristies 28/11/2007)

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от Eugene

In the catalog of studies introduced are weaker sketches ...

Thank you, Eugene, for being reminded of this useful book. She, too, I have. I would be very interested to know what studies you believe weaker than the one who introduced the ranzher. Just name the numbers of these images in the catalog.

[Евгений]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

what studies you believe weaker than the one presented ranzher. Just name the numbers of these images in the catalog

№ 45,53,56,62,64,69,90,112,124,133,154,184,204.

[ранжер]

Ah, the maestro, still folded!
And I was hoping that we, together, together we turn to the kind Vladimir Aleksandrovich proposal to leave the banal lesson - drawing reference to the dubious pictures, not to introduce more of a temptation, and not only Russian speculators. Not this writer's work. It is better to return to the belles-lettres, to continue to make up his not bezynteresnye book.
Well, no, no way. Maybe next time with someone else.

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You, Master, do not be angry at me very, perhaps too glibly put it really. The idea is simple. Do you have a fleeting predawn impression was that considered a marina is a piece of another picture or you sure? If the second, then talk about the composition is not necessary.
As for pictures give time, I will build a test, not leisure now. In the meantime, let's ask the person who said that in a book published about Bogolyubovo are weaker sketches, lay something out of this.
A bit strange to hear from you, a Democrat and dushelyuba that the talent of the painter measured high social status and an enviable financial position. Some sort, my dear fellow, you define the vast majority of artists in mediocrity. In creatures mainly this was and is vnestatusen, destitute and poor as a church mouse, but definitely not talentless polls.
I want you, no doubt a professional of the highest sample caution against excessive credulity to all kinds of myths, created by the persona, and even more of their descriptors.
In France, not to talk to each other filth. The tradition of this.
If you know a few phrases in French, a Frenchman you will notice what you have good French, if a little play on any musical instrument, sure to compare you with a famous musician, well, etc. etc. They proceed from the fact that people from the communication should enjoy, but do not buy from him unpleasant truths, the uterus in the eye. In ordinary Ca va? should respond with a smile Ça va bien!, or Ça va tres bien!, even if you're near death. This is not hypocrisy, but by centuries a national custom. Today, artists working in France with the post-Soviet area could share their experiences. With great difficulty arranged bride are invited to the appropriate people. They come, smile, praise, say many nice things ... and no purchases, no papers, no further interest.
If the Parisian banquet someone gave a toast to dear's close to the court the actual privy councilor, who would not have said, this is so and should be read as a polite compliment to a guest and not create the myth of the high appreciation Russian seascape great French artist.
When you, the undisputed scholar, talk about the recognition of hierarchy colleagues barbizontsami, then, of course, mindful of the fact that under this tentative title is more than 300 artists of various levels and even nationality. Among them were immigrants from Russia. The point is not even that is not given any particular document confirming that message, I can not believe that C. Corot somewhere and spoke commendably of Russian artist, now that humanitarian reasons put his signature on the paintings of his imitators, but in the that such statements, whether even they are honest, do not matter in determining the true importance of the painter's art, as well as the Legion of Honor ribbon in his buttonhole, different medalki and other trinkets. His contemporary, Courbet was nothing like this, but his powerful creativity shifted, set up the momentum of European painting.
Maestro, I am impressed by your lawyers' agitation in defense of Russian art. But it does not need. For him no one is attacking. Moreover, from a certain point, many, including the major museums of the world, take on a mission to acquaint them with humanity, to show what the Russian contribution to the treasury of world culture. It is necessary not only to exaggerate the size of this contribution. Mentioned that there was in Russian art, as indeed in others, the authors, without whom the world culture can easily be dispensed with, but there are those, without which the works in it (world culture) any gaps.
You are brilliantly highlighted in his speech the names of Russian artists, without which the art world would be poorer. Repin Kuindzhi, Polenov, Marxism, Levitan, Nesterov, Vereshchagin, Kramskoy Savitsky, Vrubel .... The list goes on even within that show, where you have so aptly quoted from the welcome of the organizers. «We have deliberately rejected the Russian Impressionists and European trends in Russian painting, - explain the curators. - We had a very interesting fact that came out of the walls of the Academy of Fine Arts, where they brought the world classics, and then visited the centers of art - Italy and France, your artists, eventually turned to national, religious and literary sources and folk traditions». That is, the exposition in compliance with its name sought to show the original, his Russian, which although not much, but enriched the fine art world. Imitators imitator her place was not.
Now that you are important statements of authorities, giving an excerpt from the work of Russian painting of the 19 th century, in my opinion, one of the best Russian art critics, Alexander Benois.
On the other artists of the "Düsseldorf", sweet and charming, but stilted and false, direction to stop nothing. None of them, neither Socrates Vorobyov, nor Erassi (another venetsianovets, deserted to the enemy camp) or Frick or Goravsky or decorator Bocharov, nor Lagorio, nor Count Mordvinov nor Bogolyubov, NN Makovsky, nor, despite his, sometimes decent, technical skill and dexterity, said not one word of the living, never trembled and touched the face of nature, but thus wonderfully pleasing her just the same as they are empty and purposeless fans.
Among the Bogoliubov sketches, performed by them in France under the influence of works Isabey, and Dupree, recently, Budena come across very beautiful in tone and pleasing to the letter pastichchio of these artists.
Remember not too long, but very revealing story of scandals about fakes with authoritative Inquiries their authenticity. You do not think about why reputable people, who have spent dozens of years of professional study of the work of artists who have published many papers on them, were unable to distinguish the works of these artists from their western counterparts? Yes, because all the same - the work of Russian authors is precisely those most beautiful and pleasant pastichcho.
General and the main problem of Russian art is that it has no foundation, while the Western European art rests on solid foundations of Greco-Roman culture. It is well understood the great Russian artist Dmitry S. Stelletsky. His creativity he wanted and tried to overcome this contradiction. And this task but certainly not equal to one, albeit an extremely talented artist, and fellow guild did not understand and did not support.
So we continue to live, reproducing countless imitators, the manufacturers of modern pastichcho, but unlike the ancestors quite ugly and unpleasant at all.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

ranzher, thanks for a beautiful essay.
Sam would like to unsubscribe to the topic hierarchy. But tomorrow.