Can you trust examinations certifying the authenticity of paintings

[тата]

Сообщение от NATA NOVA

can not trust anyone , because falshaki already included on the official websites of artists. ( Dead, famous, expensive and popular )
And in the history of auction sales as the originals hang ...
Saw with my own eyes .

Trust, but verify !
I agree totally fakes sales results and they distort the overall picture. Really why put that undoubtedly pronounced bullshit ? Maybe we should filter such work ?

[kozhinart]

Сообщение от acetate

Trust, but verify !
I agree totally fakes sales results and they distort the overall picture. Really why put that undoubtedly pronounced bullshit ? Maybe we should filter such work ?

The market is not interested , at the system that now exists as a quality criterion is very conditional .

[NATA NOVA]

Сообщение от acetate

Maybe we should filter such work?

"What, where when?"
(And by whom?)

When making a purchasing decision priobratelyu need proof-authentication means to the purchaser is engaged in the wrong business!
(IMHO)

[K-Maler]

Сообщение от Artem; 3069501"

what these same technological expertise ,

I'm not too lazy to search in Google about the colors as they look , ie whether it is possible to say exactly when the paint was done . Possible molecular lattice certain kind ... somehow , pictures of this molecule are given to such a year it was not ... or was not as though the paint looks like ...
But there might be a later restoration can crumbling edges or grease stains , especially in gouache ... Can be the " unsophisticated " restoration, familiar artist tidied etc., appeared " later paint " ... This technical expertise must be attentive , take samples from ...

The important thing here do not talk about : the works of famous artists are recognizable , and therefore these artists became known . Each has its own theme , style , character drawing , coloring. Artist gets used to mix some paint, prefer such and not other special effect ... here ... And stuff like that. But it may or may not see museum workers , they are not artists , and not at all accurate eye .
"Investors " new appeal generally do not distinguish anything . And as the need names and not pictures , then it all what we have today ... alas.

[тата]

Сообщение от NATA NOVA

" What, where when? " ( And by whom? )
When making a purchasing decision priobratelyu need proof- authentication means to the purchaser is engaged in the wrong business ! (IMHO )

On the artinvestmente have the results of their sales someone records is not it? Why the results " Gelos " can not fix , you can do just as well and left work. Who exactly does it, better ask Administration .
You see then all those who buy expensive things are not engaged in the business - not too categorically .... Understand and see one thing and another guarantee . Gathering - it is also an investment of money for many.
Try to sell Korovin without examination or Levitan. <! - ~ 7 ~ ->

[NATA NOVA]

acetate, fully fixed left on decent sales and auctions .. quietly currently being featured long.

Fixing process sales decent auctions (who are interested in it) is automatic, falshakov including .. <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

[тата]

Сообщение от kozhinart

market is not interested , at the system that now exists as a quality criterion is very conditional .

What kind of system , which really is not necessary? And you look at sales results would Alexei Stepanov or Stanislav Zhukovsky ... about what criteria you say. Often one criterion real or not, and 75%or 95%true - it does not happen .

Added after 7 minutes

Сообщение от NATA NOVA

acetate, fully fixed left on decent sales and auctions .. quietly currently being featured long .
Fixing process sales decent auctions ( who are interested in it ) is automatic , falshakov including .. <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

Agreed. But the little red circles (indicators ) is still on - artinvest are sometimes caught. <! - ~ 1 ~ -> Yes, and publish catalogs of counterfeit spare ... And of course this will not be engaged , that they recognize that sell fakes.

[kozhinart]

Сообщение от acetate

What kind of system , which really is not necessary? And you look at sales results would Alexei Stepanov or Stanislav Zhukovsky ... about what criteria you say. Often one criterion real or not, and 75%or 95%true - it does not happen .

Added after 7 minutes


Agreed. But the little red circles (indicators ) is still on - artinvest are sometimes caught. <! - ~ 1 ~ -> Yes, and publish catalogs of counterfeit spare ... And of course this will not be engaged , that they recognize that sell fakes .

Criterion investment attractiveness consists of expert assessment and sales history , exhibitions , publications, works , the sheer quality of the product in terms of its artistic value, authenticity, in this system again. Identifying counterfeit market is not necessary, if demand exceeds supply . It harms the reputation of even the affected person , as he will have to admit that he bought a fake or poor quality work.

[Маруся]

Well, as soon as the theme from " The Russian museum against Benoit " turned into a discussion on pravomenrnosti expertise ...
Also will state : without examination - anywhere! Examination only need a professional and responsible ( in all senses)

But arguments such as :

Сообщение от NATA NOVA; 3070011"

can not trust anyone , because falshaki already included on the official websites of artists .

What is the "official site of the artist "? ? ?
- 's Still alive or artist 's Fund , which blyudut heirs - they are fakes publikyut ?
- Auction site which publishes all sold works on the principle of " seen , inspected, bought "?
- Or poster lovers /fans of the artist, where the audience , all the left leg wants ( the love of art , of course)

And here the examination ? ? ?

[sergejnowo]

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 3071881"

without examination - anywhere !

in Europe , in quantity and quality , and sell ten times more paint than in Russia .
I can safely say that the price range up to 50,000 euros, 99.99%of the painting changes the owner without any certificate.
The lion's share of work with a price tag of 50,000 euros is also sold without a certificate - provenance plays a significant role .
Therefore agree :

Сообщение от tandem ; 3069811"

All these expert paper invented dealers

Added after 48 minutes
partially see the problem of illiteracy and ignorance .

If the real collector and lover of painting closely interested in particular artist , goes looking to study biographies , analyzes , compares the information , etc. , it is not necessary certificate . No there is nothing clever , if you stupidly dismiss all controversial work .
By itself, a certificate for " optics " or "chemistry " , especially alone says nothing.
For example, Nikolai Petrovich Bogdanov-Belsky .
During his career he wrote in a dozen different styles, from the realism of the Wanderers , through the " peeping " at different Frenchmen to their 3 -4x typical , in 20-30 years. Wrote works in Russian museums immigration little. He was terribly popular in Europe , primarily through the subject ( kids ) . Postcards and reproductions of his works published in all European countries , reproductions hung in kindergartens and shkolax . In 1943 , with the filing of the ideologists of the Wehrmacht, published a picture book with his works , quote: " only for internal sales in the Wehrmacht under the support of the troops ." All because of the kids .
And this is despite the artist's life.
Without straining your imagination, we can say that during the life of the artist, was written a huge number of copies.
In general, the " chemistry" does not help, only if the " chemistry" signature when perelitsovke .
Oh, and " optics" is not better with so many styles, in which the artist worked , you can explain to anything.
However, serious student of his work , no doubt, after 30 seconds of inspection live, say firmly , original or is suspected .

not knowing ford .. do not go in the water ..