Fake for Gelos - Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

dedulya37 · 18.02.2009, 19:20

Thanks to our experienced forumcanam able to find yet another forgery. Exhibited it at the auction "Gelos" with the following text:

Lot number 316
Attributed Stozharov Vladimir Fedorovich (1926 - 1973, Moscow). "Autumn 1969". 1969 Oil on cardboard. 48h34. Frame and glass. Talus paint layer.

I have every reason to say that creativity Stozharov this work is irrelevant.

Help for beginners.

Landscape sketches have Stozharov, usually horizontal, vertical rare.
Autumn 1969 was not written no purely landscape sketches.

http://www.gelos.ru/2009/february/20.02/art.shtml

Сима · 18.02.2009, 20:11

Lot number 316
Attributed Stozharov Vladimir Fedorovich (1926 - 1973, Moscow). "Autumn 1969". 1969 Oil on cardboard. 48h34. Frame and glass. Talus paint layer.

If this is the text from the catalog, it is quite correct. In this formulation - the decision to purchase should be more meaningful. And is probably cheaper. Seems to me that the claim "bogus" just less correctly.

Кирилл Сызранский · 18.02.2009, 20:49

Цитата:

Сообщение от Sima

And is probably cheaper.

Of course, since not Stozharau.

dedulya37 · 18.02.2009, 20:49

Цитата:

Сообщение от Sima

If this is the text from the catalog, it is quite correct

You misunderstood. Text is just compiled correctly. The very picture does not belong to brush Stozharov VF and to declare that the work is "wrong" is quite correctly (excuse the tautology)

Сима · 19.02.2009, 20:26

dedulya37, That you have misunderstood me, I meant that the picture without a signature - means, not a forgery, ie forgery. Now, if "they" have signed it - would be a forgery in full. A pripisyvetsya "is a children's toys, it is clear who it would be deceived. Well, someone will buy podeshevke and will be glad that MB Stozharau. Could explore, enlighten. The risk, he said, in this case is always accompanied. And then there is no risk. Would Stozharau, it would be several examinations, etc.
Decidedly not being informed about the evils Gelos, I think that is incorrect to throw at the office "a forgery", which formally follows.

dedulya37 · 19.02.2009, 20:43

Цитата:

Сообщение от Sima

dedulya37, That you have misunderstood me, I meant that the picture without a signature - means, not a forgery, ie forgery. Now, if "they" have signed it - would be a forgery in full. A pripisyvetsya "is a children's toys, it is clear who it would be deceived. Well, someone will buy podeshevke and will be glad that MB Stozharau. Could explore, enlighten. The risk, he said, in this case is always accompanied. And then there is no risk. Would Stozharau, it would be several examinations, etc.
Decidedly not being informed about the evils Gelos, I think that is incorrect to throw at the office "a forgery", which formally is not like that.

I understand you correctly. That "someone" who will buy, will then display it on sale without the word "assigned" and skip the check Gelos. Two or three sales - and the work is legal.

LCR · 19.02.2009, 21:07

If these unscrupulous traders are entitled to a completely unsubstantiated "attribute" artists every scribble, then assigns experts and creativity of these artists have the right to refute them and notify the public that this work nothing to do with this artist does not have .

I've already talked here about the case, but let me remind: when my attorney has informed an American auction house, which modestly valued now (USD 1000-2000), they put up for auction with the attribution "is attributed to Roginsky, my husband did not write and could not write, and bringing strong arguments (was badly copied part of the picture, actually written Roginskii), the response we have received the following:

they argued that the world certainly there are some artists whose name is Michael Roginsky (add - and all these Mikhailo Roginsky wrote the same landscape in the same perspective!)
that if I insist, they can be attributed to: "Mikhail Roginsky - the author of this picture, is not the late husband of Mrs. Liana Roginskii";
that if I did agree to issue a certificate of authenticity, they agree to repay my epistolary efforts (taking into account the estimated value of the picture, assuming that the purchase of my signature, they would be allocated U.S. $ 15-20. How to stand against such a proposal?) .

How do you like that kind of arrogance? Hopefully, no one doubts the fact that they knew that the work they have put on sale, no relation to the creation of my husband has not. Most likely, this forgery was made at their request.

That is, as rightly said Vyacheslav, the phrase "attributed" and "on the signature" cover the most real criminal acts.

As for me personally, and I'm sure Sasha Stozharau will agree with me, I will do everything possible to stop this dirty trick, and in any case, fix them all sorts of obstacles - a waste of lawyers, bastards!

dedulya37 · 19.02.2009, 21:25

LCR,

Liana, you are absolutely right. Thank you.

Glasha · 19.02.2009, 21:32

LCR, dedulya37, fellows!

Fight necessary.
Behalf simply nepravonaslednikov join.

uriart · 19.02.2009, 23:50

But what about when such an esteemed auctions as Sotebis and Christy exist in such practices as:
attributed to the artist such a
terms of such a
workshop on a certain
perhaps a certain artist.
And only when standing next to reproductions of works of the artist's name and surname with dates of birth and death, then the work can be taken purely as an author.
Not to mention the fact that if you are listed at the exhibition which displays the work of the entire provenance. Plus the view of some famous art.
All this is written in the rules at the end of the auction catalog.

18.02.2009, 19:20	Язык оригинала: Русский #1
dedulya37 Гуру Регистрация: 24.05.2008 Сообщений: 5,017 Спасибо: 5,605 Поблагодарили 6,167 раз(а) в 1,669 сообщениях Репутация: 9525	Fake for Gelos Thanks to our experienced forumcanam able to find yet another forgery. Exhibited it at the auction "Gelos" with the following text: Lot number 316 Attributed Stozharov Vladimir Fedorovich (1926 - 1973, Moscow). "Autumn 1969". 1969 Oil on cardboard. 48h34. Frame and glass. Talus paint layer. I have every reason to say that creativity Stozharov this work is irrelevant. Help for beginners. Landscape sketches have Stozharov, usually horizontal, vertical rare. Autumn 1969 was not written no purely landscape sketches. http://www.gelos.ru/2009/february/20.02/art.shtml Миниатюры

18.02.2009, 20:11	Язык оригинала: Русский #2
Сима Гуру Регистрация: 29.01.2009 Адрес: Москва Сообщений: 1,422 Спасибо: 2,395 Поблагодарили 2,244 раз(а) в 552 сообщениях Репутация: 4259	forgery of Gelos Lot number 316 Attributed Stozharov Vladimir Fedorovich (1926 - 1973, Moscow). "Autumn 1969". 1969 Oil on cardboard. 48h34. Frame and glass. Talus paint layer. If this is the text from the catalog, it is quite correct. In this formulation - the decision to purchase should be more meaningful. And is probably cheaper. Seems to me that the claim "bogus" just less correctly.

19.02.2009, 21:07	Язык оригинала: Русский #7
LCR Гуру Регистрация: 29.04.2008 Адрес: Париж Сообщений: 6,211 Спасибо: 18,677 Поблагодарили 38,258 раз(а) в 5,446 сообщениях Репутация: 29878	If these unscrupulous traders are entitled to a completely unsubstantiated "attribute" artists every scribble, then assigns experts and creativity of these artists have the right to refute them and notify the public that this work nothing to do with this artist does not have . I've already talked here about the case, but let me remind: when my attorney has informed an American auction house, which modestly valued now (USD 1000-2000), they put up for auction with the attribution "is attributed to Roginsky, my husband did not write and could not write, and bringing strong arguments (was badly copied part of the picture, actually written Roginskii), the response we have received the following: they argued that the world certainly there are some artists whose name is Michael Roginsky (add - and all these Mikhailo Roginsky wrote the same landscape in the same perspective!) that if I insist, they can be attributed to: "Mikhail Roginsky - the author of this picture, is not the late husband of Mrs. Liana Roginskii"; that if I did agree to issue a certificate of authenticity, they agree to repay my epistolary efforts (taking into account the estimated value of the picture, assuming that the purchase of my signature, they would be allocated U.S. $ 15-20. How to stand against such a proposal?) . How do you like that kind of arrogance? Hopefully, no one doubts the fact that they knew that the work they have put on sale, no relation to the creation of my husband has not. Most likely, this forgery was made at their request. That is, as rightly said Vyacheslav, the phrase "attributed" and "on the signature" cover the most real criminal acts. As for me personally, and I'm sure Sasha Stozharau will agree with me, I will do everything possible to stop this dirty trick, and in any case, fix them all sorts of obstacles - a waste of lawyers, bastards!

19.02.2009, 20:26	Язык оригинала: Русский #5
Сима Гуру Регистрация: 29.01.2009 Адрес: Москва Сообщений: 1,422 Спасибо: 2,395 Поблагодарили 2,244 раз(а) в 552 сообщениях Репутация: 4259	dedulya37, That you have misunderstood me, I meant that the picture without a signature - means, not a forgery, ie forgery. Now, if "they" have signed it - would be a forgery in full. A pripisyvetsya "is a children's toys, it is clear who it would be deceived. Well, someone will buy podeshevke and will be glad that MB Stozharau. Could explore, enlighten. The risk, he said, in this case is always accompanied. And then there is no risk. Would Stozharau, it would be several examinations, etc. Decidedly not being informed about the evils Gelos, I think that is incorrect to throw at the office "a forgery", which formally follows.

19.02.2009, 21:25	Язык оригинала: Русский #8
dedulya37 Гуру Регистрация: 24.05.2008 Сообщений: 5,017 Спасибо: 5,605 Поблагодарили 6,167 раз(а) в 1,669 сообщениях Репутация: 9525	LCR, Liana, you are absolutely right. Thank you.

19.02.2009, 21:32	Язык оригинала: Русский #9
Glasha Гуру Регистрация: 19.05.2008 Сообщений: 2,976 Спасибо: 9,079 Поблагодарили 4,731 раз(а) в 1,133 сообщениях Репутация: 7675	LCR, dedulya37, fellows! Fight necessary. Behalf simply nepravonaslednikov join.

19.02.2009, 23:50	Язык оригинала: Русский #10
uriart Banned Регистрация: 05.06.2008 Адрес: UKRAINE Сообщений: 8,039 Спасибо: 5,979 Поблагодарили 7,015 раз(а) в 2,462 сообщениях Репутация: 12459	But what about when such an esteemed auctions as Sotebis and Christy exist in such practices as: attributed to the artist such a terms of such a workshop on a certain perhaps a certain artist. And only when standing next to reproductions of works of the artist's name and surname with dates of birth and death, then the work can be taken purely as an author. Not to mention the fact that if you are listed at the exhibition which displays the work of the entire provenance. Plus the view of some famous art. All this is written in the rules at the end of the auction catalog.