Старый 28.07.2010, 13:03 Язык оригинала: Русский       #31
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По умолчанию examination timing

I want little to develop this very interesting topic. Experts from the Russian Museum has the highest qualifications in the received data is no doubt - if the analysis showed the presence of paint studied phthalocyanine dye, then before the end of 30-s work can not be dated. At the forum many times wrote that it is desirable to pass the medical examination at least 2 different locations. Also in St. Petersburg, the Hermitage is the specialists of the highest class (including the identification of phthalocyanine in the painting). Just do not know whether (and, most importantly is willing), Mr. Azadovsky there turn. And for 2-3 days to make art history and technological expertise of the two small works really well: having access to a reference database (a Russian museum it is), and using non-destructive methods of analysis, ie without sampling (XRF, IR reflektografiya), all of this equipment in the Russian Museum and there is a sufficiently high level - would wish. As for the dating of the paper, it is the specialists from the Russian Museum were among the first in Russia began research in this area, again using a reference database of the Museum. Publications on this topic is in the public domain - anyone with desire can learn and understand what it gives, then that would not judge whether what just do not know. And yet the article was the phrase literally "Alternative examination indicated wrong museum staff. But if the timing of the examination clearly shows the criteria on which the conclusions were drawn expertise (having the same phthalocyanine), the data on an alternative examination did not - who did it, on what basis they have refuted the conclusions of expert timing, etc. Incidentally, when the 60-ies of watercolors from the collection Azadovsky hit the timing, there was no research methods and instruments that have now. I just know this is a fairly high percentage of work, estimated procurement commissions for museums, marriage on the stage of research. Maybe before bought 30-50 years ago, his hands do not reach.



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Старый 28.07.2010, 13:10 Язык оригинала: Русский       #32
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if the analysis showed the presence in the paint study of the presence of the phthalocyanine dye, then before the end of the 30-s work can not be dated. At the forum many times wrote that it is desirable to pass the medical examination at least 2 different locations. Also in St. Petersburg, the Hermitage is the specialists of the highest class (including the identification of phthalocyanine in the painting). Just do not know whether (and, most importantly is willing), Mr. Azadovsky there apply.
It seems that in the article about K. Azadovsky all phthalocyanine written:
Цитата:
With these and other perplexities I wrote to the Deputy Director for Science; asked to understand, cancel uneducated opinion, etc. In response - a stunning new paper.
In one of them reported that in gouache discovered the alleged "ftalotsianovye pigments" (in the official custody of them was not mentioned).
..........................

Many were interested in me and mysterious "ftalotsianovye pigments. It all was not easy - to conduct the necessary analysis of the paint layer can not in every laboratory. Finally luck: Institute of Precambrian Geology and Geochronology RAS in St. Petersburg produced a study of elemental composition and responded to a basic question: "Ftalotsianovyh dyes were found".



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Старый 28.07.2010, 16:20 Язык оригинала: Русский       #33
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По умолчанию phthalocyanines as colorants in painting

Cyril, thank you. I see a piece of article just missed. Actually now left to do the following:

1. establish whether one and the same place to collect samples.
2. compare the spectra, where we found the phthalocyanine and the spectra of the same land where it did not find, preferably with assigning each band.

It's all will be objective and realistic rig - band in the spectrum either have or not.
We had a situation where in the work we have found acrylic adhesive, and another laboratory has issued opinion (oral), that they result there as the binder oil. Well, we presented the spectra, the photo marked with the coordinates of measurement points, was invited as a judge of a specialist from the Hermitage (technologist). And that was it.
But apart from phthalocyanines as I understand it, the timing had other arguments (the paper and others).



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Старый 28.07.2010, 17:32 Язык оригинала: Русский       #34
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there were other arguments (paper, etc.).
The lame factor in our Yankel presented to me one day a whole stack of old yellowed and even withered, tarnished and half-rotten paper, asking, if I need this jewel, and inviting her for a fair price, five rubles per sheet. I looked up and what? - It was a stamp paper of different years of the last quarter century.
- No, I do not need. And who and what it might be suitable? - I said.
- As for TEC? And in Heraldry?

And then Yankel detail explained to me that the paper bought vied with each other that it gentlemen officials Svirshchevskii, Zhabko and other special write some ink, paint heraldic trees, and coats of arms are making special press that pay 5 rubles per sheet can be sold to the needy 50 and even 100, that he had only to respect and devotion to offer me the correct transaction.

Marx M. Notes old.



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Старый 28.07.2010, 18:11 Язык оригинала: Русский       #35
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I am very happy when the conversation out of the market level by LIZA, flows smoothly into another ploskost.A now, if you can, reasonably prove obratnoe.Dlya maintain the theme should be very familiar with technological expertise.
By the way for the Ukrainian part of auditorii.Nezavisimaya Kiev expert campaign Art Lab, tried to refute the conclusion of timing with regard to Ukrainian artist first ryada.Laboratoriya concluded on the basis of all kinds of tests, which only can be, but to compile the information and not smogla.Pri comparison of the pigments have been a serious error, since the terminology, finishing datirovkoy.Dokument this was vymuchan two candidate of chemical sciences, who could not distinguish the varnish from linoksina.Voobsche something when comparing the physical and chemical analysis of timing and the Art Lab, found 10 mistakes.
That's such grief expert bodies timing is always ready to argue and be responsible for outstanding dokumenty.No subject matter there is no one ignorant and unprofessional.
Everyone was very funny, reading these pearls .



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Старый 28.07.2010, 18:37 Язык оригинала: Русский       #36
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Старый 28.07.2010, 19:05 Язык оригинала: Русский       #37
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dedulya37, then all the pathos of Article K. Azadovsky that it was he who knows exactly provenance things. And the house where this thing was not easy, there were enter-known artists and writers ... Both the AK Azadovsky personality known:
Цитата:
The son of a prominent literary critic Mark Azadovsky. He graduated from the Philology and History Faculty of the Leningrad University (thesis on their creativity Franz Grillparzer and the German romantic painting). Taught foreign languages in the institutions of Leningrad and Petrozavodsk. In 1980 he was arrested and convicted on trumped-KGB charges of drug possession, served two years in the camp in the Magadan region (rehabilitated in 1989). Author of several scientific papers and publications on Germanics (especially on creativity RM Rilke), Russistics (poets of the Silver Age, especially Balmont and Kluev), Russian-European literary relations. Compiled bibliography of materials about Joseph Brodsky (1997). Member of editorial boards of magazines "Zvezda" and "New Literary Review", was a member of the editorial board of the New Russian book. Corresponding Member Germanskoy Academy of Language and Literature. Jury President Booker Prize 1999 Winner Award Gundolfa Germanskoy Academy of Language and Literature (1989), Prize of the Austrian Ministry of Culture and Art (1991), incentive bonuses Alexander von Humboldt Foundation (1995), Fulbright Fellow (1999). Chairman of the St. Petersburg branch of the PEN Club. Lives in St. Petersburg.
And he put up with these examinations as some poddelschika besides mocking unsubscribe, inventing new and new explanations for its professional ridiculous occurrences.
Perturbation Azadovsky I understand.



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Старый 28.07.2010, 19:09 Язык оригинала: Русский       #38
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Старый 28.07.2010, 21:42 Язык оригинала: Русский       #39
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Nice that the discussion turned into a constructive direction. The fact that the article KM Azadovsky reflects only one side of the conflict but in the near future we can expect an answer composed EN Petrova, who will clarify some controversial points. On my own I want to notice that in this history is the omission from the side of the museum, about them I will write more.
I tried that still the owner does not give these figures in the Moscow expert organizations, and limited the conclusion of the Theatre Museum and help from the Interior Ministry, about handwriting analysis. I note that the handwriting limited Help, rather than expertise. This is essential from a legal point of view. Forensic examination involves comparing a given handwriting with a reference and identification of common parts. As an example, his work, Mr. Azadovsky led Copier from the album. If you scan a raster image, and then print it on your printer, then about a comparison of the stroke or the direction of motion of the pen can talk? " As GRM collection of drawings, AN Benoit has not hundreds, but thousands of items! And the handwriting of Alexander Nikolayevich known since his apprenticeship to the last years of the life of the artist. Between the timing and NLR exists a non-profit historic agreement on graphology and handwriting AN Benoit well understood. He compared the handwriting with her father and brother (Albert). Alas, but totally unlike. If interested, you can upload a sample of handwriting from the museum's sketch for the play "The doctor willy-nilly" AN Benoit and the work of Mr. Azadovsky.
Claims to the pencil drawing in the test work are based not on an empty spot. Alexander never deletes a preparatory drawing eraser from their work. In this case it is the place to be. There are a few things that are very close to the work of the Assembly, KM Azadovsky. One of them was admitted to the timing of the meeting of brothers Rzhevsky, two or three kept in the Theatre Museum. But they are fundamentally different from the theatrical sketches of the AN Benois. These are things done with his other hand. The play "Doctor willy-nilly" prepared for the 300 th anniversary of Moliere and work on the sketches of costumes was the sea! And does not the fact that all of them did, and repeated several copies of Alexander himself Nikolaevich.Ryadom worked with him other theater artists who have helped master.
Since phthalocyanine pigments probably not a museum of human rights, because because of complete lack of funding, procurement of equipment NO. Applications for infrared spectrometer and Raman long waiting in the wings for many years, we have to use priborchik to determine the authenticity of excise stamps ... He reacts and phthalocyanines including. But other pigments Containing ferrotsianovye group also recorded them. Gouache Sudeikina just bad for artistic level. The paper on which she performed met in reference works only in the late 1920's. By the way, Benoit raskonvertovali at the request of the owner ... So the work had to learn under the glass. Sad but it happens.
If Konstantin Markovich wanted to sell their work, the timing could prevent it could not. In late 2008, a negative opinion of his staff knew only a few workers of the museum and art dealer, who wanted to buy these works. But now people know about it all ...
A little messy, but how it happened.



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Старый 28.07.2010, 22:29 Язык оригинала: Русский       #40
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I note that the handwriting confined Help, rather than expertise.
Interior Ministry issues a certificate-conclusion of an expert handwriting analysis is not another form.
Now, on the date - according to the Moscow Center for examination and evaluation, finding fulfillment signature imitation, change of handwriting as well as compliance with any - or confounding factor. (The psychological impact of drunkenness), in one document is executed for a period not less than 5 days.
You are here one by one trying to justify giving involuntarily some "family" secret type of priborchika ...... not it better to get together and compose a "decent pisulyu", so much does not simplify.



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