Experts on cultural values. Can we trust the experts and how?

[Маруся]

Сообщение от Tata, 1519301

you can tell amazing provenance

No, Tata, can not. Can only narasskazyvat different stories.
You probably do not fully understand the meaning of the term "provenance", and therefore do not attach any importance to him. Provenance - the history of existence, ie documents (receipts, contracts, certificates, etc.) confirmed the transition of work from the artist (on his legal heirs) to the last owner. It is precisely because the West is not in the habit of citizens to part with money, leaving in their contract or receipt that the money received and no claims - there is a good provenance means much more than a good review. With the exception of provenance, in which there is nothing unexplained gaps.
The exposition of the exhibition by the owner or artist of provenance is not relevant. For this is the concept of publication, which only adds value to the work: after all, at the exhibition were selected only the best work, even by artists themselves, not to mention the exhibition committee.
We have, in connection with the 70-year absence of property rights in law + two wars, when the artwork was changed to bread and butter of the provenance (ie, documenting) and say nothing.
Therefore, such importance is attached to our examination, and here - and all abuses.
We work with real provenance - a handful, and they have long been in the best collections.

[Artem]

Dear participants of the Forum!

It's not about provenance, topic discussion Discuss experts included in the directory. After the release of the directory was a lot of different opinions regarding the presence of some names and no other. Can we trust the experts and how?.

Suggest that we return to the debate on the subject - The Russian experts on cultural values. Directory. Moscow. 2010.
 Many new and interesting things for themselves can learn from recent comments, in my opinion, there are some very interesting views and comments.

Сообщение от SergeiSK

While pleased that no names of well-known experts with a controversial reputation.

Of particular interest - such characters ...

Posted 15 minutes

Сообщение от kr555

Because Roshchin Lomidze not consider to be worthy of inclusion in this list. That's from his recent interview, there was already a link to the forum:

In fact, very convincing!

Added after 24 minutes

Сообщение от Maroussia

List Roshchina - is just the beginning, it included the most famous has

The most clear and comprehensive answer! Short and sweet. Thank you.

[Artem]

Сообщение от "Silent Sapa

Sorry.
Hoped that the debate will go on personality.

Go to the person in the discussion is inevitable, but not always possible.

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от "Artem

That's the reason why I wrote to you a forum to discuss the experts from the directory ...

For example, Olga Glebova - great expert on the chart.

[Маруся]

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Dear Artem,
Speech came on the provenance, because the term is misused. (He is not really properly used by many gurus and even administration officials).

You want fried facts - write Sergei l /n - wants - to answer.

I just still think it is better to solve the problem, not a "catch fleas", ie not seek out disgruntled any specific expert.
In addition to the list of experts, we have more and organizations representing expertise on a commercial basis:

Art Consulting;
Department of Examination:
103051, Moscow, Russia Raushskaya embankment, 14
Phone: +7 (495) 726-23-45, 721-7313, tel /fax: 725-59-15
Evaluation Department:
103051, Moscow, Russia Stoleshnikov lane., 11, office 353
Phone /fax: +7 (495) 725-59-15, +7 (495) 772-2945, +7 (495) 642-2340
El. Email: [email protected]
www: www.artcons.ru

GosNIIR;
107114, Moscow,
st. Gastello, 44
Tel.: +7 (499) 268 5077
fax: +7 (499) 268 5511
[email protected]

NINE them. Pavel Tretyakov;
119017, Moscow,
Tolmachevsky lane, 12
Tel: +7 (495) 507-3546
Fax: +7 (495) 507-3546
[email protected]

GRC them. Academician Igor Grabar.
In my opinion, "Grabar" deprived of this opportunity, but you can call them and clarify.

You'll have somehow determined.
Last edited by Maroussia; Today at 18:48. Reason: *******
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[Artem]

Сообщение от Maroussia

I just still think it is better to solve the problem, not a" catch fleas ", ie not seek out disgruntled any specific expert.

Dear Maroussia, I absolutely agree with you! Thank you very much for your advice, they are really useful and very necessary.

Regards, Artem.

[K-Maler]

Сообщение от Maroussia

Speech, has come about provenance, because the term is misused. (He is not really properly used by many gurus and even administration officials).

The fact that it is due to the fact that we have a list of exhibitions and the inclusion in the directory, sometimes even in the booklet is another form of provenance, if we recall the terms of the paintings on exhibition and that it was "publicly", t . e. everything usually know and can confirm that this work is so and so ... (In the case of the booklet - all came to the exhibition). Provenance same sales as in the West ... All of you correctly said. In the West, in turn, exhibitions organized differently, and in another mode, and artistic life were not so arranged, and many did not know each other ... There are other means to publish and other constituents.

[тата]

Maroussia,
I know the meaning of provenance. All of these receipts, the history of existence and other documents under the false work as well and are made of. Are "relatives", "foster children", "nephews", etc.
But it was that the expertise necessary to do a job, rather than provenance. And since you mentioned the war, plus Civil War, Finnish and Japanese, about the provenance of all say no.
Way. Most expensive fakes are often sold at Western auctions. Especially in recent years. A staff of these auctions are often only interested in selling (saw this in person).

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Tata, 1521921

All of these receipts, the history of existence and other documents under the false work as well and are made of. Are "relatives", "foster children", "nephews", etc.

This is all true only in my opinion, with respect to things previously never been in circulation on the art market, the pervasive nature dealer, for example, is to "address."

[Artem]

Yesterday, at my request, my friend phoned the author reference book "The experts on cultural property" (they know), we asked him to comment on what principle were taken of the experts.
His answers seemed to me very interesting. I do not know how you.

Roshchin told, this question posted many times, he got calls from European auctions a week ago, called a gallery owner from Samara and others should not be lazy and read - Introduction. - Everything is clear. What and why. I wonder what he said - in my opinion there is no reference. It includes the names of those experts whose opinions most authoritatively - no more no less.
  
Questions - why, in the section - PDI, only one expert. The answer was as follows. - There are other very experienced and very knowledgeable experts in different directions, if you're interested in DPI. One of them is Andrew Gilodo I myself had no time did the expertise, the list does not come in, because I was interested only experts on Faberge. By the way Gilodo as well as many collectors, said Alexander Ivanov, a very good specialist in the field of examination of Faberge.

We asked him if he knew that one of the forums is a discussion of the topic, to which he replied: Yes, I know, I have already spoken. I can not imagine that there ... Must see (laughs)