Examination of works of Russian and foreign painting and graphics XVI-XX centuries. - Страница 7 - Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

Евгений · 23.12.2010, 10:53

Вложение 1074951
A fragment of a portrait of King Philip IV of Spain, Diego Velazquez from the Metropolitan Museum
-------------------------------------------------- ---------
New York's Metropolitan Museum has returned a permanent exhibition of the portrait of King Philip IV of Spain, Diego Velazquez. In 1973, this painting, which was kept in the museum for nearly 60 years and thinks the script, suddenly declared the work of one of the imitators of the artist. Now, 37 years later, after careful restoration authenticity of the portrait still reaffirmed. Thus, the museum "returned" to itself is the second painting by Velazquez in the last two years.
Velazquez portrait of Philip IV wrote in 1624, a year after he was appointed court painter. King of Spain, was only 18 years old, but the work of the painter had made on him and his entourage was impressed. So large that within the next 40 years as Philip IV on the throne of portraits of the king and his family members wrote only Velázquez.

Читать дальше...

This portrait is caught in the Metropolitan Museum in 1913, is of particular value that is considered the earliest surviving official portraits of the king. It also features a zoom - the picture has a size of 200 by 102.9 centimeters, Philip IV in it is depicted in full length in a black jacket and a raincoat.
Painting in the Metropolitan Museum of Art came after the death of a New York collector and patron of Benjamin Altman, who bequeathed the museum his collection of paintings. Altman, in turn, acquired the portrait from one of the most famous art dealers of the time - a Briton named Joseph Dyuvin. Last distinguished business approach to art and often demanded that the restorers have masked any damage to the canvas and artificially muffled color to the picture seemed to be less frivolous, and therefore more expensive.
Thus, already in 1913 a portrait of Philip IV was far from his original form, and eventually his condition only worsened, but experts doubt its authenticity intensified. When in 1973 the Metropolitan decided to conduct an audit of three hundred paintings from his collection, in the process reatributsii copies or fakes, it was recognized some 45 paintings, including works by El Greco, Rembrandt and Vermeer. This list includes a portrait of Philip IV: it was decided that it was painted by a pupil or imitator of Velasquez.
The status quo was maintained until 2009, when the head of the department of European paintings at the Metropolitan Museum was appointed Keith Christiansen. On his initiative, the chief restorer of the museum's Michael Gallagher took up another painting by Velazquez - "Portrait of a Man." This painting also once considered the true Velazquez, but in 1979 was recognized as the work of his pupil. Thanks to the efforts of Gallagher, who cleared the picture of the many layers of dark varnish and traces are not too attentive restorers, the authenticity of the paintings has been confirmed.

A fragment of a portrait of King Philip IV of Spain, by Diego Velasquez in the Prado Museum in Madrid, then Christiansen, who was seriously occupied with the question of authenticity is in museum collections of works by Velazquez, turned his attention to the portrait of Philip IV. Preparations for the restoration of paintings began in the same year 2009. X-ray photography showed that a significant portion of the image is lost. In addition, the left eye was nearly wiped off the king, and Christiansen admitted that he began to doubt the authenticity of the portrait: so little has been left original. "If Michael [Gallagher] did not come from the restoration, I would have returned the painting to a warehouse," - he said.
However, the first results of remediation activities Gallagher, showed that the portrait was painted by Velazquez really. When the restoration of the paintings were completed, even those experts who had formerly thought pattern imitation, agreed that this script. The origin of the painting clearly pointed out the characteristic creativity Velazquez painting technique, traces of which were hidden under layers of varnish and the results of pererisovschikov Dyuvina.
Moreover, Christiansen, and Gallagher found that the portrait - a copy of an earlier image of Philip IV, over which he wrote the other picture of him, stored in the Prado Museum in Madrid. Another similar portrait of the King of Spain (but not at full height, and waist) and stored in a museum Meadows in Dallas. Comparing with the help of tracing these three portraits, the experts concluded that they were all written by the artist with the same template. Thus, thanks to the paintings in the museums of Dallas and Madrid, restorers managed to restore the portrait of Philip IV with maximum accuracy.
Finding a genuine Velasquez - is always an event, as each of his work on the account: a lifelong artist painted only about 110 paintings. Interestingly, the summer of 2010 in the museum at Yale University found another Velasquez - picture of the "Education virgins". It is poorly preserved and most authoritative international experts on the works of the Spaniard has not confirmed its authenticity. Now the picture is on the restoration.
Generally 2010 was unusually rich in unexpectedly discovered paintings by old masters. Italian restorers restoring the crucifixion of the XIV century, at the end of the work understand, that before them the product of Giotto. For a long time in the lobby provisevshaya Rotterdam museum painting of the XVII century was the work of Rembrandt. Prado Museum have proposed to restore painting, which, as revealed in the process, was written by Bruegel the Elder. Finally, an Italian art critic and did announced that found a picture of Michelangelo.
Of course, such finds are sometimes caused by accident, but it is undeniable that they are increasingly being made through advances of technology renovation. In other words, chances are that every year their number will increase: no one knows how many other forgotten paintings of great artists is stored in the attics of village houses, or hanging on the wall of someone's bedroom.
Alex Kadaner

Artem · 07.01.2011, 03:08

In the sensational transfer on the channel "Russia 1", aired November 14, 2010, has been shown sensational reporting by Boris Sobolev stealing art objects in museums in Russia (see video) in connection with the publication on September 7 this year Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation terrible numbers missing nearly a quarter-million museum exhibits!STOLEN RUSSIAN MUSEUMS

How much does an independent examination and how to receive it.
See More details here: VIDIOhttp://expertmus.livejournal.com/63462.html

Тютчев · 07.01.2011, 05:08

Цитата:

Сообщение от Artem

In the sensational transfer on the channel "Russia 1", aired November 14, 2010, has been shown sensational reporting by Boris Sobolev stealing art objects in museums in Russia (see video) in connection with the publication on September 7th this year Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation terrible numbers missing nearly a quarter-million museum exhibits! THEFTIN THE MUSEUMS OF RUSSIA.

How much does an independent examination and how to receive it.
See More details here: VIDIOhttp://expertmus.livejournal.com/63462.html

Cleverly concocted a film intended for potential buyers of antiques in order to switch them (or money) on contemporary art. The second goal - a redistribution of market expertise. Perhaps there is some other motive, but I called the principal. The film is made by the classical method of alternation of truth and falsehood. Put together out of context views of people are painting a gloomy and even frightening picture of modern Russian antique market. At the same time, sling mud at museum collections of Russian art. All this is richly flavored with "acute" criminal "sauce." For the layman, even the wealthy, it is a signal to escape from the market. For every well-versed man this movie a negative one-sided, and some of the statements made in this movie - frank delirium! Anyone who is familiar with the realities of the market, it's a real horror movie with all the grotesque, peculiar to this genre! I repeat once again, the film cleverly done. It skillfully interwoven truth and falsehood. Did the pros! The film is necessary to analyze and comment on every statement, every single person. That propose to do.

Евгений · 07.01.2011, 09:51

Цитата:

Сообщение от Artem; 1460801"

about stealing art objects in museums in Russia

This is off-topic post ... Start a new topic about museum problems ...

Цитата:

Сообщение от Tiutchev

The film is necessary to analyze and comment on every statement, every single person.

Theme post of "Examination of the works of Russian and foreign painting and drawing XVI-XX Centuries." Expertise ...." so few words on the post .. (museum issues, security etc can be discussed in another section).
------------------------------
Tiutchev, why discuss in detail the technology of forgery, errors that allow counterfeiters patterns, analyze the activities of museum staff experts (who are just at the Tretyakov Gallery was released more than 100 erroneous assessments) ..
Judge V. Petrov on the subject gave a lot of interviews, where in great detail all lit up .. my opinion, but harm is not good does not work .. crooks
art forgers only improve the quality of fakes of Russian painting and everything.
I think it is enough to consider the general problems that exist in the examination of paintings, forgeries of paintings, import /export of antiques, etc.
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
For example, an interesting theme, we can discuss it ..
In Russia, the provenance of works of art, antiques generally not discussed, although the west is one of the main issues in the identification of works of art .....

Тихая Сапа · 07.01.2011, 18:12

Цитата:

Сообщение от Eugene

For example, an interesting theme, we can discuss it ..
In Russia, the provenance of works of art, antiques generally not discussed, although the west is one of the main issues in the identification of works of art .....

What's so interesting? With our historical past traceable evidence-provenance is more the exception than the rule. With the revolutions, wars, expropriation, confiscation and prohibition of private trade to put provenance at the forefront? In Europe, no one has ever come across with so and experience the European us here do not help.

Fed · 07.01.2011, 18:58

Цитата:

Сообщение от Eugene

In Russia, the provenance of works of art, antiques did not discuss

I am afraid that this is really, dull. I know people who are about grandfathers knew nothing, and favorite provenance-grandfather brought back from the war.

In light of the movie, I'm interested in the general question of validity of assessments: not seldom reads about possible expert advice forgers and even of the experts themselves in this direction.
If we consider the total criminalization and corruption of all layers, then it could bypass the bulk of the experts. Moreover, knowing the energy (not "in the vector" of Russian), I guess that leftist streams. In the west, seized bundles of direct falsification. There probably containers. Direct and "soft"

"fakes.
About Ukraine and not writing. Recently read some articles (polit. fight haze lifted whole) and became more clearly represent what is only joking.

In general, the question - can we seriously talk about the reality of Russian expert? And on the other hand, is it worth much if it's all sad-zalepuha. After all, there is a piece of paper, but what else do you want? And who can deny it? Another "expert" local spill.

Only because of today's posts: "After the successful bidding Makdugalls in June 2010 and December 2010 can be concluded that the experts Makdugallsa - out of 12 exhibited works D. Burliuk to sell at least 10 paintings were fakes ..." OlegTsi of experts Grabar and Rybakova Yu

Ie to need to put paper acquisition most pompous office, both now and in communicating with officials, means-nothing-all goal.
I think at this stage, this approach optimizes the direction of motion. and then, all bylem and provenance porastet.

Тихая Сапа · 07.01.2011, 19:57

Seems to me that with the expertise of course difficult (always had a hard time), but progress will not be because of the laws of what is happening.

Namely: 1) The buyer does not trust the dealer, because dealers are interested in profits (the exceptions of dealers with great reputations do not charge by virtue of their exclusivity)

2) Refers to an expert for whom (at least theoretically) reputation should be the top priority as other capital he has. Fact of, by and large satisfied with all. The client is comforted, the dealer has a scapegoat (like, if that, I do not know, I trusted expert)

3) the collective reputation of a stable personal + zamorochennost Russian population at high-profile brands forced to give priority to high office (hence any mediocrity has appeared in force in case the flow is in favor and get the trust)

4) yesterday's art (the ball), and felt its relevance is experiencing some (depending on the individual's Resistance), dizziness from success and begins to try and ryadit right and left (after all important for the expert "did not have a pass for, and aplomb, and then feed bag on the blades of all the other qualities)

ergo flawed at all levels of the system and the changes will not happen. Humble! Customers - to be deceived by their darkness and superstition; dealers - run by experts because of their greed and self-confidence to outwit all, the experts - let it all in order to remain a star (and it is ready to embark on a star for the sake of status, we all know from glossy magazines )

Artem · 07.01.2011, 20:45

Message from Eugene

Tiutchev, why discuss in detail the technology of forgery, errors that allow counterfeiters patterns, analyze the activities of museum staff experts (who are just at the Tretyakov Gallery was released more than 100 erroneous assessments) ..
Judge V. Petrov on the subject gave a lot of interviews, where in great detail all lit up .. my opinion, but harm is not good does not work .. crooks
art forgers only improve the quality of fakes of Russian painting and everything.
I think it is enough to consider the general problems that exist in the examination of paintings, forgeries of paintings, import /export of antiques, etc.
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

I agree with you, is it so. But what about the experts who already have done Affairs ... Boris Sobolev in the film "Art on Tap" in the movie "Bugs or scam" DVD. persons involved in these scandals, the expert one and same characters.
That is the question!

Samples from the movie "Bugs or scam" See Here, there is http://video.yandex.ru/users/temnoepivo/view/1
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------
Artem

Евгений · 08.01.2011, 10:55

Цитата:

Сообщение от Artem; 1461571"

But what about the experts who already have done cases

And what they've done things ...? Experts simply "advice" .. give legal, liability can not be held .....
The forum is the subject of art fakes M. Saryan, with the expertise of the Tretyakov Gallery, there is all discussed in detail, there is no point in repeating
1. http://forum.artinvestment.ru/showth...131#post836131
2. http://forum.artinvestment.ru/showth...001#post836001
-------------------------------------------------- -----
For beginners, collectors, classics of the genre (2006)
"... The document examination - just professional advice, which has no legal weight." We - the state organization that does not insure, do not give guarantees. They are our views got. Can listen or not "- explains the director of research restoration center it. Grabar Alexei Vladimirov ... "
http://www.forbes.ru/forbes/issue/20...dutoe-sobranie
----------------------------------------------

Artem · 08.01.2011, 17:11

A brief comment lawyers on the legal

Regulation expert activity:

Deleted as unnecessary.

23.12.2010, 10:53	Язык оригинала: Русский #61
Евгений Гуру Регистрация: 04.06.2008 Адрес: Сочи Сообщений: 14,663 Спасибо: 18,865 Поблагодарили 16,455 раз(а) в 4,506 сообщениях Записей в дневнике: 273 Репутация: 32442	Velazquez was questionable script Вложение 1074951 A fragment of a portrait of King Philip IV of Spain, Diego Velazquez from the Metropolitan Museum -------------------------------------------------- --------- New York's Metropolitan Museum has returned a permanent exhibition of the portrait of King Philip IV of Spain, Diego Velazquez. In 1973, this painting, which was kept in the museum for nearly 60 years and thinks the script, suddenly declared the work of one of the imitators of the artist. Now, 37 years later, after careful restoration authenticity of the portrait still reaffirmed. Thus, the museum "returned" to itself is the second painting by Velazquez in the last two years. Velazquez portrait of Philip IV wrote in 1624, a year after he was appointed court painter. King of Spain, was only 18 years old, but the work of the painter had made on him and his entourage was impressed. So large that within the next 40 years as Philip IV on the throne of portraits of the king and his family members wrote only Velázquez. Читать дальше... This portrait is caught in the Metropolitan Museum in 1913, is of particular value that is considered the earliest surviving official portraits of the king. It also features a zoom - the picture has a size of 200 by 102.9 centimeters, Philip IV in it is depicted in full length in a black jacket and a raincoat. Painting in the Metropolitan Museum of Art came after the death of a New York collector and patron of Benjamin Altman, who bequeathed the museum his collection of paintings. Altman, in turn, acquired the portrait from one of the most famous art dealers of the time - a Briton named Joseph Dyuvin. Last distinguished business approach to art and often demanded that the restorers have masked any damage to the canvas and artificially muffled color to the picture seemed to be less frivolous, and therefore more expensive. Thus, already in 1913 a portrait of Philip IV was far from his original form, and eventually his condition only worsened, but experts doubt its authenticity intensified. When in 1973 the Metropolitan decided to conduct an audit of three hundred paintings from his collection, in the process reatributsii copies or fakes, it was recognized some 45 paintings, including works by El Greco, Rembrandt and Vermeer. This list includes a portrait of Philip IV: it was decided that it was painted by a pupil or imitator of Velasquez. The status quo was maintained until 2009, when the head of the department of European paintings at the Metropolitan Museum was appointed Keith Christiansen. On his initiative, the chief restorer of the museum's Michael Gallagher took up another painting by Velazquez - "Portrait of a Man." This painting also once considered the true Velazquez, but in 1979 was recognized as the work of his pupil. Thanks to the efforts of Gallagher, who cleared the picture of the many layers of dark varnish and traces are not too attentive restorers, the authenticity of the paintings has been confirmed. A fragment of a portrait of King Philip IV of Spain, by Diego Velasquez in the Prado Museum in Madrid, then Christiansen, who was seriously occupied with the question of authenticity is in museum collections of works by Velazquez, turned his attention to the portrait of Philip IV. Preparations for the restoration of paintings began in the same year 2009. X-ray photography showed that a significant portion of the image is lost. In addition, the left eye was nearly wiped off the king, and Christiansen admitted that he began to doubt the authenticity of the portrait: so little has been left original. "If Michael [Gallagher] did not come from the restoration, I would have returned the painting to a warehouse," - he said. However, the first results of remediation activities Gallagher, showed that the portrait was painted by Velazquez really. When the restoration of the paintings were completed, even those experts who had formerly thought pattern imitation, agreed that this script. The origin of the painting clearly pointed out the characteristic creativity Velazquez painting technique, traces of which were hidden under layers of varnish and the results of pererisovschikov Dyuvina. Moreover, Christiansen, and Gallagher found that the portrait - a copy of an earlier image of Philip IV, over which he wrote the other picture of him, stored in the Prado Museum in Madrid. Another similar portrait of the King of Spain (but not at full height, and waist) and stored in a museum Meadows in Dallas. Comparing with the help of tracing these three portraits, the experts concluded that they were all written by the artist with the same template. Thus, thanks to the paintings in the museums of Dallas and Madrid, restorers managed to restore the portrait of Philip IV with maximum accuracy. Finding a genuine Velasquez - is always an event, as each of his work on the account: a lifelong artist painted only about 110 paintings. Interestingly, the summer of 2010 in the museum at Yale University found another Velasquez - picture of the "Education virgins". It is poorly preserved and most authoritative international experts on the works of the Spaniard has not confirmed its authenticity. Now the picture is on the restoration. Generally 2010 was unusually rich in unexpectedly discovered paintings by old masters. Italian restorers restoring the crucifixion of the XIV century, at the end of the work understand, that before them the product of Giotto. For a long time in the lobby provisevshaya Rotterdam museum painting of the XVII century was the work of Rembrandt. Prado Museum have proposed to restore painting, which, as revealed in the process, was written by Bruegel the Elder. Finally, an Italian art critic and did announced that found a picture of Michelangelo. Of course, such finds are sometimes caused by accident, but it is undeniable that they are increasingly being made through advances of technology renovation. In other words, chances are that every year their number will increase: no one knows how many other forgotten paintings of great artists is stored in the attics of village houses, or hanging on the wall of someone's bedroom. Alex Kadaner Миниатюры

07.01.2011, 03:08	Язык оригинала: Русский #62
Artem Бывалый Регистрация: 26.09.2010 Сообщений: 381 Спасибо: 106 Поблагодарили 976 раз(а) в 257 сообщениях Репутация: 1953	"Art on Tap." Censatsionny reporting by Boris Sobolev (Vidio) In the sensational transfer on the channel "Russia 1", aired November 14, 2010, has been shown sensational reporting by Boris Sobolev stealing art objects in museums in Russia (see video) in connection with the publication on September 7 this year Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation terrible numbers missing nearly a quarter-million museum exhibits!STOLEN RUSSIAN MUSEUMS How much does an independent examination and how to receive it. See More details here: VIDIOhttp://expertmus.livejournal.com/63462.html Последний раз редактировалось Artem; 08.01.2011 в 23:01.

07.01.2011, 20:45	Язык оригинала: Русский #68
Artem Бывалый Регистрация: 26.09.2010 Сообщений: 381 Спасибо: 106 Поблагодарили 976 раз(а) в 257 сообщениях Репутация: 1953	Message from Eugene Tiutchev, why discuss in detail the technology of forgery, errors that allow counterfeiters patterns, analyze the activities of museum staff experts (who are just at the Tretyakov Gallery was released more than 100 erroneous assessments) .. Judge V. Petrov on the subject gave a lot of interviews, where in great detail all lit up .. my opinion, but harm is not good does not work .. crooks art forgers only improve the quality of fakes of Russian painting and everything. I think it is enough to consider the general problems that exist in the examination of paintings, forgeries of paintings, import /export of antiques, etc. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ I agree with you, is it so. But what about the experts who already have done Affairs ... Boris Sobolev in the film "Art on Tap" in the movie "Bugs or scam" DVD. persons involved in these scandals, the expert one and same characters. That is the question! Samples from the movie "Bugs or scam" See Here, there is http://video.yandex.ru/users/temnoepivo/view/1 -------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Artem Последний раз редактировалось Artem; 07.01.2011 в 21:35. Причина: Добавлено сообщение

08.01.2011, 17:11	Язык оригинала: Русский #70
Artem Бывалый Регистрация: 26.09.2010 Сообщений: 381 Спасибо: 106 Поблагодарили 976 раз(а) в 257 сообщениях Репутация: 1953	A brief comment lawyers on the legal Regulation expert activity: Deleted as unnecessary. Последний раз редактировалось Artem; 09.01.2011 в 01:45. Причина: Добавлено сообщение

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07.01.2011, 19:57	Язык оригинала: Русский #67
Тихая Сапа Бывалый Регистрация: 07.11.2010 Сообщений: 414 Спасибо: 467 Поблагодарили 691 раз(а) в 269 сообщениях Репутация: 1373	Seems to me that with the expertise of course difficult (always had a hard time), but progress will not be because of the laws of what is happening. Namely: 1) The buyer does not trust the dealer, because dealers are interested in profits (the exceptions of dealers with great reputations do not charge by virtue of their exclusivity) 2) Refers to an expert for whom (at least theoretically) reputation should be the top priority as other capital he has. Fact of, by and large satisfied with all. The client is comforted, the dealer has a scapegoat (like, if that, I do not know, I trusted expert) 3) the collective reputation of a stable personal + zamorochennost Russian population at high-profile brands forced to give priority to high office (hence any mediocrity has appeared in force in case the flow is in favor and get the trust) 4) yesterday's art (the ball), and felt its relevance is experiencing some (depending on the individual's Resistance), dizziness from success and begins to try and ryadit right and left (after all important for the expert "did not have a pass for, and aplomb, and then feed bag on the blades of all the other qualities) ergo flawed at all levels of the system and the changes will not happen. Humble! Customers - to be deceived by their darkness and superstition; dealers - run by experts because of their greed and self-confidence to outwit all, the experts - let it all in order to remain a star (and it is ready to embark on a star for the sake of status, we all know from glossy magazines )

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