Старый 15.02.2011, 00:19 Язык оригинала: Русский       #31
Старожил
 
Аватар для Станиславский
 
Регистрация: 27.11.2008
Адрес: Украина, Львов
Сообщений: 634
Спасибо: 460
Поблагодарили 943 раз(а) в 231 сообщениях
Записей в дневнике: 11
Репутация: 1415
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от artcol Посмотреть сообщение
Cage - a conceptualist, the abstraction is not relevant. Abstraction - a higher form of existence, and conceptualism - a paradigm.
I think it's just a label. In this connection the question arises, what is - an abstraction? And what is her attitude. and that - no? However, we did respond in this topic.



Станиславский вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Этот пользователь сказал Спасибо Станиславский за это полезное сообщение:
iside (15.02.2011)
Старый 15.02.2011, 00:26 Язык оригинала: Русский       #32
Гуру
 
Аватар для Самвел
 
Регистрация: 27.08.2008
Адрес: Москва-Шуши.
Сообщений: 4,508
Спасибо: 4,904
Поблагодарили 5,722 раз(а) в 1,457 сообщениях
Записей в дневнике: 2
Репутация: 10269
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavsky; 1527443"
What tools we appreciate
Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavsky, 1527503
well-educated and experienced in painting people
words we, or the educated and sophisticated people, in this case I think is inappropriate. I wrote in another topic that a work of art, whether music, literature, of art, etc., should speak with the listeners, readers, viewers one by one, without any intermediaries. Another thing Artinvestment, then mediators can not do without.



Самвел вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 15.02.2011, 00:35 Язык оригинала: Русский       #33
Гуру
 
Аватар для artcol
 
Регистрация: 13.09.2008
Адрес: многия миры, в т.ч. и этот
Сообщений: 11,873
Спасибо: 6,123
Поблагодарили 6,468 раз(а) в 2,976 сообщениях
Репутация: 12820
Отправить сообщение для artcol с помощью Skype™
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavski Посмотреть сообщение
I think it's just a label.
Yes, no, no label. Study of mass culture, art and other issues of society in the West attaches great importance - for obvious reasons. There's all laid out, the transmission mode. This is our point of return for moving forward - the avant-garde, but there has long been all chewed and 50 years. So Western scholars in matters of codification can be trusted.
Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavski Посмотреть сообщение
In this connection the question arises, what is - an abstraction? And what is her attitude. and that - no? However, we did respond in this topic.
Briefly my point of view - here.
By definition, the objective of art:
Цитата:
"The difference between subjective and objective art consists in the fact that in objective art the artist is really" works ", ie doing what is going to do, puts into his work the ideas and feelings that are willing to invest in it. And the action of the artworks to people is absolutely certain: they will take (of course, each according to his level), the same ideas, same feelings, namely - the ones that the artist wanted them to pass. Neither in the works nor in the experiences of objective art there is nothing accidental.

"In subjective art everything is accidental. As I said earlier, here the artist did not create, he has" something is created. "This means that it is in the power of ideas, thoughts and feelings, which he does not understand and over which has no power . They run them and are embodied in different forms. And when they accidentally took one form or another, this form just as accidentally turns on the person some effect depending on his moods, tastes, habits and nature of hypnosis, by which he lives, and so on. There is nothing constant, nothing is certain. In objective art there is nothing indefinite. "
and further
Цитата:
... There is a man's being number one, who lives instincts and feelings, is being number two man, so to speak, being sentimental, emotional, human, human being is number three, being a rationalist, a man of the theoretical mind, and so on. It is quite clear why knowledge should not be far from being. Man number one, two or three - and the reason of his being - can not find the knowledge of man number four, five and above. And what would you get, it will explain this in its own way, downplaying any idea before. the level at which there is myself.

"The same order of division into seven categories should be applied to everything that belongs to the man. There is art number one, that is the art of man number one, imitation and copying, crudely primitive and sensual, such as music and dances of primitive peoples. There art number two - sentimental art, art is number three, intelligent and far-fetched, there must be also an art room four, five and so on.
__________________
По всем вопросам можно писать на почту vns1976@mail.ru и звонить на телефон: +7 927 271 1253. Все предметы или находятся в Мск или могут быть доставлены для просмотра туда.



artcol вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 15.02.2011, 00:44 Язык оригинала: Русский       #34
Авторитет
 
Аватар для Art-lover
 
Регистрация: 25.10.2008
Адрес: Киев
Сообщений: 825
Спасибо: 1,584
Поблагодарили 2,452 раз(а) в 384 сообщениях
Записей в дневнике: 2
Репутация: 3846
По умолчанию

Stanislavsky, I see that late in replying, but do not disappear as good.

Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavsky, 1526973
Freud postulated the existence of a great man trudnopostizhimoy for the study areas - the unconscious. It is to her, in my opinion, in the first place and appeals abstract (or non-figurative) art. In contrast to figurative art, which is primarily addressed to our conscious field with preconceived notions out there about the form, composition, structure, space, etc. Our conscious installation in a sense, prevented deeper penetration into the unconscious message of the artist. Abstract art as remove all barriers to such penetration, and directly appeal to our psychological depth.
I have with the word "psychoanalysis" of the quagmire subconscious pops the word "surreal." ) That's quite a figurative way (with some patches of abstract) most flirted with the Freudian and develop the most sophisticated technology actualization of unconscious impulses artist and subliminal viewers.
Therefore, the thesis about the superiority of abstraction above figurativom in "breaking" the unconscious is not obvious.
Truth is, perhaps, in the middle: in the abstract surrealism. This is an interesting direction after a short way - in the early 1940's - has been supplanted by abstract expressionism. In my opinion, because American artists have not been able to pull (a pity. Somehow I'll return to this issue).

Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavsky; 1526973"
And here the question arises: whether to apply to the assessment of abstract (non-figurative) art of the same criteria as for figurative art, given the fact that they are addressed to different spheres of human consciousness?
Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavsky; 1527283"
But the question is, which I announced: What are the criteria (aesthetic), we come to abstract art? Would it be the same criteria that we normally are guided toward figurative art?
Treatment to different areas - invalid argument (as described above). With regard to similarities and differences in criteria, this theme is well developed in the same phenomenology of Ingarden in the theory of "layering" pattern: there is a general criteria, and there are specific, depending on the type of picture. However, fabosch concisely and clearly highlighted this aspect, so that you can not go on a visit to Ingardenu. )




Последний раз редактировалось Art-lover; 15.02.2011 в 01:32.
Art-lover вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Эти 8 пользователя(ей) сказали Спасибо Art-lover за это полезное сообщение:
DSF (16.02.2011), fabosch (15.02.2011), iside (15.02.2011), Peter (15.02.2011), prosto_valentina (13.03.2011), Samvel (17.02.2011), Маруся (19.02.2011), Станиславский (15.02.2011)
Старый 15.02.2011, 00:48 Язык оригинала: Русский       #35
Гуру
 
Аватар для fabosch
 
Регистрация: 06.04.2010
Адрес: Санкт-Петербург
Сообщений: 1,283
Спасибо: 3,923
Поблагодарили 4,952 раз(а) в 992 сообщениях
Репутация: 9944
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavski Посмотреть сообщение
I'll try. To do this, use the analogy with music, art, the most "abstract" available to our perception. Than we do measure our "dignity of a musical work? Those criteria that are developed tradition: the musical form, the wealth of topics and depth of its development, sound and coloring, etc. That is all that dwells in the space of a certain modal-sound context. But the famous concert of Cage, which has not played a single note, it turns out that context. Does this mean that the product Keyzhda is not music, but shioe - art? It seems to me. that the creation of Cage - an extreme degree of abstraction in art, going beyond the limits of our assessment tools. And to appreciate it, you need to "measure" entirely different yardstick.
Now I understand what you are. Well, the Cage is a certain analogy to the iso - for example, black square. And, say, "Ready-Made 's Duchamp - analogue in music - specifically music." Yes, here you are right. Pointless to discuss the composition and pictorial merits Black Square
(Though some of it quite the same deal). Of course it also has composite features, and color-textured subtlety simply by virtue of the fact that this painting. But in Malevich, and Duchamp, and then many others in large quantities from the start of 1960 (Boyce, Land Art, Minimalism, Arte Povera, etc.) there is a new dimension, which in the old slide rule does not present. Well, in impressionist, say, too, was a new shkalka on the ruler, which was not up to them. And Uccello is not it? It now seems that this is not new line appeared, and simply dividing by the scale were added, and at that time it was also a sort of black square.
Yes, now it seems that in the 20 century there was overriding the boundaries of art. Maybe the way it is, but I think this issue goes far beyond the boundaries of the topic and even some scary it is to begin to develop

Цитата:
Сообщение от Stanislavski Посмотреть сообщение
By the way, did not meet you fully educated and experienced in painting people, "the cognitive field, which was limited to figurative painting, and if it comes to abstraction, they immediately lost their foothold?
You bet. Yes I do, honestly, not so far away from them, how you would like. Consciousness clings to the figurative as a safe haven - all the time have to fight

Added after 4 minutes
Цитата:
Сообщение от Art-lover Посмотреть сообщение
I have with the word "psychoanalysis" of the quagmire subconscious pops the word "surreal." )
And I have "finger reaches for the trigger"

Цитата:
Сообщение от Art-lover Посмотреть сообщение
True, perhaps, in the middle: in the abstract surrealism. This is an interesting direction after a short way - in the early 1940's - has been supplanted by abstract expressionism. In my opinion, because for American artists could not pull it (a pity. Somehow I'll return to this issue).
But with this place can be more detail - is anyone out there, "the helper"?




Последний раз редактировалось fabosch; 15.02.2011 в 00:53. Причина: Добавлено сообщение
fabosch вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Эти 10 пользователя(ей) сказали Спасибо fabosch за это полезное сообщение:
Art-lover (16.02.2011), DSF (16.02.2011), fross (19.02.2011), iside (16.02.2011), Peter (15.02.2011), SAH (15.02.2011), Samvel (17.02.2011), Елизавета (01.04.2011), Маруся (19.02.2011), Станиславский (15.02.2011)
Старый 15.02.2011, 00:56 Язык оригинала: Русский       #36
Гуру
 
Аватар для artcol
 
Регистрация: 13.09.2008
Адрес: многия миры, в т.ч. и этот
Сообщений: 11,873
Спасибо: 6,123
Поблагодарили 6,468 раз(а) в 2,976 сообщениях
Репутация: 12820
Отправить сообщение для artcol с помощью Skype™
По умолчанию

Thought possible, and develop, and to answer your question, Stanislavsky. But I'm afraid no one kerf in the problems of the present art
Threat has recently been in the MSC and talked to a famous artist. He made a name for abstract art, come to certain conclusions in the same vein in which I broadcast here (find a full understanding - to communicate 6 hours), but the weight was unsupportable (70 years of Soviet power), barely survived. Now moved to the figurative, that would break. But work is still great, just not as brutal.
__________________
По всем вопросам можно писать на почту vns1976@mail.ru и звонить на телефон: +7 927 271 1253. Все предметы или находятся в Мск или могут быть доставлены для просмотра туда.




Последний раз редактировалось artcol; 15.02.2011 в 13:36.
artcol вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 15.02.2011, 10:29 Язык оригинала: Русский       #37
Гуру
 
Аватар для Seriy
 
Регистрация: 26.03.2009
Адрес: Москва-Киев
Сообщений: 7,078
Спасибо: 4,985
Поблагодарили 6,612 раз(а) в 2,177 сообщениях
Репутация: 12969
По умолчанию

artcol, noticed that somehow you with a soft sign in Russian, take liberties, you have this appear in random locations, and this fact changes the meaning of the verb :-)
IMHO, too many characters .. it's pretty simple - an abstraction - the composition and colors, do not rely on figurative everyday life.
If the artist forgets that first and foremost is the composition, then we obtain multicolored amoeba who want to call a provincial abstract art.
Starting with Cezanne all went to the fact that the composition and color took away more and more attention to the artist and viewer.
In Russia, a provincial abstract, because in the composition of our artists are weak, Malevich and Kandinsky when they were., And then only a short glimpse. And in the West, on the contrary, the tendency of the solution pattern of strong composition intensified the genius of Picasso, Matisse, Braque, Dali, Le Corbusier, yes they are all strong in composition.
In the old regime abstractionism, Malevich, Kandinsky was a lot of reason, dry theory, my friend, but the tree of life green. Therefore, with the 40-ies of Americans to the ideas of rational composition and color are welcome to wear a irrational action paintings, t e a spontaneous, semi-conscious painting. Dry immediately healed abstract passions, EM they were able to find a middle ground.
Abstract surrealism Gorky, as well as any surrealist tells us about other people's nightmares and complexes. But who cares? we have enough of his, from which would be happy to get rid of, and then there was someone else's. People want positive, so all the surreal - marginally.
Education abstract art is the training track, we have no one to teach, and Americans feel perfectly plane leaf, the centers of gravity, the combination of small and large items, they understand that abstraction is a clear and precise composition, we understand that abstraction is when it is not clear that daubed.
I myself as an artist, suffer from this drawback, so I say with such vehemence.
__________________
художник Ixygon - http://artnow.ru/ru/gallery/3/9765/picture/0/0.html



Seriy вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Эти 6 пользователя(ей) сказали Спасибо Seriy за это полезное сообщение:
Art-lover (16.02.2011), artcol (15.02.2011), GalARTA (15.02.2011), Peter (15.02.2011), Samvel (17.02.2011), Маруся (19.02.2011)
Старый 15.02.2011, 10:41 Язык оригинала: Русский       #38
Гуру
 
Аватар для Самвел
 
Регистрация: 27.08.2008
Адрес: Москва-Шуши.
Сообщений: 4,508
Спасибо: 4,904
Поблагодарили 5,722 раз(а) в 1,457 сообщениях
Записей в дневнике: 2
Репутация: 10269
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от Seriy Посмотреть сообщение
People want positive
Ecclesiastes 7:1-4 "A good name is better than precious ointment, and the day of death - the day of birth. It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of every human being, and the living is to his heart. Sorrow is better than laughter, because the sadness of the face, the heart is made better. The heart of the wise - in the house of mourning, and the heart of fools - in a fun house. "



Самвел вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Этот пользователь сказал Спасибо Самвел за это полезное сообщение:
Samvel (17.02.2011)
Старый 15.02.2011, 10:51 Язык оригинала: Русский       #39
Бывалый
 
Аватар для GalARTA
 
Регистрация: 14.01.2011
Адрес: Москва - Севастополь
Сообщений: 268
Спасибо: 357
Поблагодарили 798 раз(а) в 192 сообщениях
Репутация: 1680
По умолчанию thanks

Dear Thread, I thank you for opening the theoretical debate on contemporary art studies relating to abstract art. I'm glad that in January and February on the forum came at once 3 themes related to different aspects of abstractionism - experiment - practical issue (for my plein air in Kamenetz), on the validity of abstract art v2011 year (Isis on specific works of art and neiskusstva) and now your - a global issue, where you can discuss various aspects of this phenomenon (finally and before Freud arrived, it was time)))
Thanks again. With pleasure I will read it.



GalARTA вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Эти 4 пользователя(ей) сказали Спасибо GalARTA за это полезное сообщение:
Art-lover (16.02.2011), I-V (15.02.2011), iside (16.02.2011), Samvel (17.02.2011)
Старый 15.02.2011, 13:04 Язык оригинала: Русский       #40
Гуру
 
Аватар для artcol
 
Регистрация: 13.09.2008
Адрес: многия миры, в т.ч. и этот
Сообщений: 11,873
Спасибо: 6,123
Поблагодарили 6,468 раз(а) в 2,976 сообщениях
Репутация: 12820
Отправить сообщение для artcol с помощью Skype™
По умолчанию

Цитата:
Сообщение от Seriy Посмотреть сообщение
artcol, noticed that somehow you with a soft sign in Russian, take liberties, you have this appear in random locations, and this fact alters the meaning of verbs :-)
It happens. This is not what I had forgotten grammar or do not know much "Often the phrase rebuild (wee computer era, used to not think in my head, but in a text editor ), well, then there are these signs disappear
__________________
По всем вопросам можно писать на почту vns1976@mail.ru и звонить на телефон: +7 927 271 1253. Все предметы или находятся в Мск или могут быть доставлены для просмотра туда.



artcol вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Ответ

Метки
abstract painting, abstract art, abstract artists abstract

Опции темы
Опции просмотра

Ваши права в разделе
Вы не можете создавать новые темы
Вы не можете отвечать в темах
Вы не можете прикреплять вложения
Вы не можете редактировать свои сообщения

BB коды Вкл.
Смайлы Вкл.
[IMG] код Вкл.
HTML код Выкл.

Быстрый переход





















Часовой пояс GMT +3, время: 21:28.
Telegram - Instagram - Facebook - Обратная связь - Обработка персональных данных - Архив - Вверх


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Перевод: zCarot