"Kommersant" about Artinvestment

[Admin]

Сообщение от passers-87145

The question arises, if the index is more important selling hundreds of items on slaboznachimyh tertiary auctions, how correct his testimony?

Methods of calculating indices allows prune things, unattractive in terms of investment in them. Such work in calculating the indices are not involved. How to do it - keep silence (this is also our know-how). Let me just say that the indices are very complicated, they take into account many factors, although the ideas on which the calculations are simple and logical. To understand the complexity of the calculations can say that a complete miscalculation of all indexes takes more than a day-time work of the modern powerful server.

[Allena]

Сообщение от dedulya37

Be careful, talk on the forum can (as you have already seen) to turn in the opposite direction.

Discussion - a discussion of a controversial issue; study of the problem, in which each party opposing 'views, argue their position and claim the goal.
Reasoned statement, made during the discussions in the correct form and having to explain to others point of view of the speaker, nor which way to turn the conversation can not. If the speaker goes to the person, then to the subject of discussion is irrelevant.

[AlexanderG]

To Prohozii

'The fact is that I personally very idea of attempts to systematize the art market in this way seems somewhat questionable. "

Soglasen

Art rynok - poslednii nereguliruemyi rynok v mire!
Eto Klondaik, Eldorado, prikliuchenie, chudesnyi obras zizni!

Slishkom serioznoe otnoshenie ko vsemu etomu vediot nikuda.

Rynok est ', hudozniki est', kartiny est ', galerei est' itd, poriadka net, ne mozet byt 'i ni k chemu.

Davaite etim naslazdat'sia!

[Admin]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Rynok est ', hudozniki est', kartiny est ', galerei est' itd, poriadka net, ne mozet byt 'i ni k chemu.

Well, this I beg to differ. Do you think that no order? You think that all the sales prices of the same transcendent Bacon, Rothko, Freud, Koons, Hirst random? Yes, there are, of course, and surprises, not covered by the organizers of auctions. But, I assure you, all the "landmark" sales represent a well-planned action. And they are directed at the general rise of the total market. Because after these sales prices are significantly grow and artists second, followed by the third row. So ... rather naive to believe that the market regulates itself. This is partly true, but only partly. The behavior of the market one way or another controlled monopolies, but in this case, the major auctions. And the auction does not make sense to go in the wake of the market and allow for lower prices. Moreover, surely there is (perhaps unspoken, and, perhaps, explicit) collusion in auctions for similar actions aimed at the rise in prices for all markets.

See, every year at the auction happens several fantastic sales. This happens very regularly. Things that are sold at such prices appear at auction is no accident, and their number is strictly metered. And you call this mess? Look at things realistically. I thoroughly analyze the situation. And the index you just to help. (Added - and auctions, by the way, too)

[artcol]

Friends! Remember: If the index does not show growth - then it's the wrong code! Everything else - our know-how

[Эммануил Гедеонович]

Сообщение от Admin

But, I assure you, all the "landmark" sales represent a well-planned action.

I totally agree!

[LCR]

Сообщение от Admin

You think that all sales of transcendent prices of the same Bacon, Rothko, Freud, Kunst, Hirst random? /.../But, I assure you, all the "landmark" sales represent a well-planned action. And they are directed at the general rise of the total market. Because after these sales prices are significantly grow and artists second, followed by the third row. So ... rather naive to believe that the market regulates itself. This is partly true, but only partly. The behavior of the market one way or another controlled monopolies, but in this case, the major auctions. And the auction does not make sense to go in the wake of the market and allow for lower prices. Moreover, surely there is (perhaps unspoken, and, perhaps, explicit) collusion in auctions for similar actions aimed at the rise in prices for all markets.

  And the index you just to help. (Added - and auctions, by the way, too )

In no case do not want to blaspheme the indicators of the art market, and can not, because anything they do not understand. However, it is important to understand that they themselves indicators do not mean anything important methodology of working with them.

And make no mistake: at the exchange, there are many technical indicators (which I know fairly well), all grosso modo provide market trend and indicates a di market "too buyer, overheated or too sell" (I apologize for the barbaric expression, but I difficult to talk about it in Russian, I do not know the terminology).
But some, working with the indicators are geared to the continuation of the trend, others - for its inversion, and others (including me) are trying to identify within a strongly growing sectors of the "stragglers" enterprise, putting the fact that at some point they catch their companions. That is, I want to say that there are no good or bad indicators, there are more or less successful treating them to market participants, or, as a theatrical director, actor, zhaluyuschemusya on uncomfortable clothes: "Do not dress plays - the actor plays, and you have been r **** m, so it was! "

When I hear about "well-planned general rise in the market," then remember boom "of new technology and the Internet in late 1990. When purchasing input to the exchange of some of the newly established firmochki its shares for 100, after a few days to sell them for 1700, and the task before you, only one - to buy more shares at the beginning.
The market went up, by leaps and bounds, until just then how would collapse, and fall all the markets are always faster than the rise, and many were the result of its stock market adventures in the buff.

The contemporary art market can be compared with the NASDAQ, where Murakami, Koons and other dick (st) nya play a role firmochek, most of which simply does not exist, but less has been bought up on the cheap during the collapse. Add to this the countless and constant manipulation of the art market, its near zero liquidity, as well as the fact that, unlike the stock exchange in the market to sell short can not - me, this raises some troubling thoughts.

Supplement: the smaller the volume of transactions, the less revealing indicator. I do not know whether you are submitting yourself that enough ten or twelve private speculators to come to terms to completely change the display of some very low-liquid firms (but since it is presleduktsya law, none of this, as you know, never does)

[Эммануил Гедеонович]

Сообщение от LCR

and other dick (st) nya

Roughly, but true!

[artcol]

Сообщение от LCR

... far from zero liquidity ...

keyword

[Vladimir]

Сообщение от dedulya37

"all that you may say, may be used against you, so be careful when talking on the forum can (as you have already seen) to turn in the opposite direction.

I think you mean that you can encounter bad agrumentirovannoy criticism obviously correct statements on which an unpleasant answer. Feeling like "opravdyvaeshya. But this genre too, the forum will not allow to choose the companion of the soul and the mood. Although I also want to periodically some interlocutors "povycherkivat. But one has to endure The theme with the further fate of forgery detection device you raised properly. And so acute and painful for many. So you should not try on "disturbing" positions. You are in this case the embodiment of "doctor", which "bad" because it makes bolnyuchie injections.

[color="# 666686"]Added after 29 minutes[/color]

Сообщение от LCR

But it is important to understand that the indicators themselves do not mean anything important methodology to work with them.

Regarding the indicators: well understand the feelings of people versed in the art, which is abhorrent to every "mathematics". I myself feel bad in my mind But is not the case. Some even a kind of objective indicators of market need. It's one thing to refer to your own intuition and empirical knowledge (when you realize that the market rises), but quite good when you can refer to the dynamics of some index, and it reinforced my empirical assertion. So let grow all the flowers. We need to focus more on the interpretation of these indexes, so that people have been clearer - on this and work.
And now the main thing. From the empirical field I have a feeling that no one better than us, such indexes do not do. So the Board and will move on.

PS. Life teaches us to be open to everything new. So, six months ago, I sincerely believed that the market indicators - things prohibitive, and a forum on the site do not need And now, even in your head does not fit, that would be otherwise.