Abstract forever

[iside]

Сообщение от fross

Marketing is present always and everywhere

fross, having spent several years studying marketing and working on marketing projects, I completely agree with you. (Soon I will no longer be surprised, even though I was reminded that it would not hurt to reread ABC )

Сообщение от fross

You do not believe that a scientist has done research for the sake of curiosity and free time? And consequently, these studies it commissioned and paid.

In principle, it is logical, but then it turns out that Art-lover (with all due respect), populyaziruya and promoting the idea of ​​abstract art on the forum is engaged in nothing more than another is not like marketing and in fact he Art-dealer abstract painting. I guess you know who he really is doing what, but I do not know, and we can and come to this view.

Сообщение от Art-lover; 1567891"

does not cancel the validity of the assertion that "the picture is impossible to see what is not, which obviously had in mind.

I do not want to get in position, but merely quote the famous phrase of Julius Caesar: Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt - people are willing to believe what they wish. The process of vision ( what is not ) starts with a desire that something so see.

[SAH]

Сообщение от iside; 1568951 "

who he really is doing what , but I do not know ,

Dear
iside, well, you as a marketer should have been watching Artlovera reading it , to understand who he really is the case " Well, what it does, it is possible to think see. That's you in comfort or joy picture painter . Dziuban I. «One style of the twentieth century » . 1963 . April 2 will be traded ducats. ( there still is a postscript in small letters " from the theory of the bourgeois art " )

[iside]

Сообщение от SAH; 1569021"

iside, well, you as a marketer should have been watching Artlovera reading it , to understand who he really is the case well, and what it does , you can expect to see

Dear SAH, a marketer - it's not Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson did not . Given that there are differences between marketing the former Soviet Union and Western . And you really , sincerely believe that this forum is the only place on the Internet , which I visited , and Art-lover, it is the only person I 'm reading , and for whom , as you say, watch ?

Hmmm , I'll check it , suddenly I had something written on my forehead .

[I-V]

Сообщение от Guriev, Igor

Yes, my God, are you, so take a piece dress with Velazquez 10x10 cm, increase up to 2 meters - and compare with any abstraktsistom.

Igor Sasha, I apologize, but not too lightly you come to art? After your offer is akin to, as if in mathematics one said: why are you telling me about the square root of the number of 36 (as well as we know it - 6)?! I do not want to hear anything about him - including 36 therefore contained six! Take, compare! Only this 6 better and more interesting, because is part of a two-digit number, and you, brothers, unpretentious shesterochka!

As we understand it, in both cases, six of six and it is, but only as a figure. But the semantic load of six from among the 36 and the Six, which is the square root of this number - a completely different and comparing them categorically unacceptable!

So in the painting, an abstract piece of realistic paintings can not be compared with initially abstract works. And even more so, for all the resemblance, and can not conceive of their sense of identity. And let the art is not mathematics, but the pattern it is also present, being due at least chronologically and evolutionarily.

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Guriev, Igor

Abstraktivisty not understand that for a normal artist's subject - only the opportunity for comment, and not an end in itself.

Abstraktivisty understood that for a normal artist's subject - only the opportunity for comment, and not an end in itself. (And why were the subject of address is free, and if necessary - to do without it.)

Сообщение от Guriev, Igor

Velazquez created a new universe, but does not repaint the surrounding persons, etc.

Talented abstractionists created a new universe, but does not repaint the surrounding persons, etc.

Dear Igor Sasha, mercilessly pounding so hard on the head Velasquez Kandinsky and Malevich. You should not appoint those kontseptmeysterov the role of whipping boy: they no longer represent the sprawling baobab abstract art. Yes, and Velasquez such use would hardly have taken to heart: live it closer to our time, it probably would have developed some his own version of lyrical abstraction. Or maybe you have in mind a modern Velasquez moschnetski embodies the idea of ​​plastic cuffs and gas infante?

I'm not sure what to read your CS Lewis would join your weeding in the field of art, he nevertheless was able to doubt his right and saw the sense in the shower and dissimilarity of things:

The images, probably useful, otherwise they would not have been so popular. (It does not matter whether there are statues and paintings out of our minds, or are shaped structures inside it). Personally, I believe that the danger is more than obvious. Images are holy holy images, they have become shrines. My idea of ​​God - not the idea of ​​divinity. It should from time to time be questioned. He shatters it. He did a great iconoclast. Is not the constant doubt one of the signs of His existence?
....

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What we want to say, when we say that the "picture deserves admiration? Not that she admired - hundreds of bad paintings admires a lot of people. Not what she deserved admiration - has worked, tried and deserved. We want to say that the Rapture - the correct, appropriate reaction to it, and if we do not react, we are foolish and blind, in fact - we are the worse, we lose much.
....

all joy is itself transformed into praise, if not keep it out of timidity and delicacy. The world only makes that praise and glory: love praise beloved readers - my favorite books, sports - your sport, in short, anyone who feels like they paint the weather, scenery, wine, dishes, actors, cars, horses, friends, children , flowers, country, community colleges, mountains, stamps, insects, and even politicians and scientists. More than once I noticed that very often and a lot of praise most humble, healthy and intelligent people, but flawed and foolish praise is rare and few. A good critic will find something to praise in an imperfect book, cross out the bad from the literature one book after another.
....

Of course, we did not want and never asked us to be transformed into something perfect. But it's not in our desires, but those intentions, which he had when he created us. He - Inventor. We - just machines. He - Artist, we - just a picture.
How can we know that he intends to make of us? You notice that he has already turned us into something very different from what we were. Long ago, before our birth, when we were still in the womb, we passed through various stages of development. At first view, we remind our plants, then - the fish, and only at the last stage we have to resemble human infants. And if we could recognize those early stages, it may well be satisfied with just such a being as
plants or fish, and did not want to turn into babies. But all this time he had a special plan for us, and he firmly intended to do it till the end. The same thing is happening now, only at a higher level. Us admit, is quite satisfied if we remain so-called ordinary people, but he is determined to enforce a completely different plan. Refusal to participate in this plan dictates not humility, but laziness and cowardice. Subjection to him shows not about vanity or mania
greatness, but of obedience.
....

truly says about heaven: "The kingdom of heaven there is no ownership. If someone calls it something his possession, he would have the same hour was cast into hell, and would become an evil spirit" (Theologia Germanica). But also said: "To him who overcomes I will give a white stone and the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives" (Rev. 2:17). What could be more personal property rights than a new name, which even in eternity, remains a mystery between him and God? And how should we interpret the existence of this secret? Of course the fact that each of the redeemed will be forever know and praise some
the only aspect of the divine beauty better than anyone else. Why else were created individual merits, but to then, to God, all infinitely loving, loved each differently? And this difference, not only does not interfere with love of all blessed creatures to one another, a communion of saints, but also fills it with new meaning. If everything is perceived equally God and equally the same worship Him, the song of triumph of the Church would not have harmony, it would be like the orchestra, in which all instruments play the same note. Aristotle tells us that the city - the unity of dissimilar, as the Apostle Paul - that the body is the unity of the different members (1 Cor. 12:12-30). Paradise - a city, as well as body, because the blessed forever retain their differences; society because everyone has something to say to others - more and more news about My God, "which everyone gets in who all praised as "Our God." For there is no doubt that the ever-successful, but never finished trying every soul to pass all the other its unique vision of (and, moreover, means, in comparison with which earthly art and philosophy look like a pathetic imitation) is also among the objectives for which each individual man was created. For the union exists only between the different elements, and it is possible that this
view sheds for us instant light on the meaning of all things.

Сообщение от iside; 1568951"

the process of seeing (what is not) begins with the desire something so see.

The process of vision begins with the projection of images on the retina. In this picture, and concluded objectively all we can really see. And what we ultimately see - with all exemptions and additions to the primary icons - this is the result of perception.
Moral: He who has ears, let him hear, having eyes - so see, having a soul - yeah ... hook - sorry - yes free her from the vain desires.))

Сообщение от iside

Quote: Originally Posted by fross
You do not believe that a scientist has done research for the sake of curiosity and free time? And consequently, these studies it commissioned and paid.

In principle, it is logical, but then it turns out that Art-lover (with all due respect), populyaziruya and promoting the idea of ​​abstract art on the forum is engaged in nothing more than another is not like marketing, and he actually Art-dealer of abstract painting.

In order not to give food for speculation, I must confess that my advocacy of abstract painting generously funded by the sheikhs of the United Emirates, abstract, sect Abstraktistov seventh day, the World League against realism, as well as Masons, yakuza, all European auction houses, and numerous individuals who play on increasing shares of the AI.
I was also awarded a grant under the federal program of inducing collective hallucinosis through social networks and online communities.
With such an abundance of sponsors, I can afford to follow the principle of "science - it's a way to satisfy their curiosity for others."
I hope that this information will serve as conclusive evidence continued purity of intentions and full of artistic objectivity of my abstract finding. <!--~ 10 "-> <!--~ 10" ->

[Самвел]

Here a different approach: for me a donut hole is valuable.
And what about bublichnym test?
Bagel can gobble up, and the hole will remain.
Osip Mandelstam.

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Samvel

Bagel can gobble up, and the hole will remain. Osip Mandelstam.

Сообщение от IV; 1566731"

agrees with it or not - is another question, but at least think about it, I think it's worth. Maybe this will help to develop some more precise definitions of what is abstract art?

(Please IV excuse me quote from the separation of context, but the dialectic of the donut hole, and soon will bring us closer to unlocking the secrets of abstract art than analysis of the relations of objects and light.)


Like Surrealism, which owes its fame not so much the range of original ideas, how much charisma at various times in contact with the very, very different artists, abstract art today is associated not only with the manifestos and proclamations, as with the cash benefits of creativity rather disparate representatives of the genre.

If in these monstrous conglomeration try to identify any cross-cutting ideas, the catch will not rich: have different understandings of relatedness with the unconscious - in surrealism, and the pointlessness - in abstract art.

When under the influence of thought on the wholeness of the human psyche the opposition "consciousness" - the "unconscious" has gradually lost its exotic charm (in the psychology of this process is marked tendency of convergence of psychoanalytic and phenomenological approaches), surrealism as during exhalation and dissolved in a "just" painting. Elements and moods inspired by ocean depths of the subconscious, not disappeared from the pictures, but they are no longer fashionable to emphasize the word "sur".

Abstract proved more resilient, in any case, the definition of "abstract" does not seem such an anachronism today as "surreal." But does the abstract to the direction of increased vitality cause for pride? On closer examination, there is: the basis of this longevity is a massive demand for "not charging" for interior decor, the extreme ease of production (so any child can ") and unprincipled assimilation of everything, where there is a reduction or distortion of the shapes of objects. Picasso, wisely distancing himself from the "isms, today would not be able otmazatsya on charges of involvement in" abstraktsizmu.

Grunder-garde abstract art have long held "in the law, but got stronger prisoner broke all the conceptual cells: in the zone of lawlessness reigned in abstract art. In vain today phantasmagoric agony of the body to try to discern abstract "clear definition of what is an abstract painting."

Bagel abstract izgryzen to the end.
Long live the donut hole!

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[I-V]

Сообщение от Art-lover

(Please excuse me IV separation of quotes from the context, but the dialectic of the donut hole, and soon will bring us closer to unlocking the secrets of abstract art than analysis of the relations of objects and light.)

I did not know ...
Paradoxically, in these matters a lot in common

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от I-V

I did not know ... Paradoxically, in these matters a lot in common

Probably not everyone remembers that the conversation about light in this topic began with Shortcuts Igor Gurieva to the opinion of the religious writer CS Lewis, that the main task of painting - light transmission (unfortunately referred to the place of Lewis I could not find).
Why should we take this particular point of view - totally understandable. It would bring the text, it discloses, otherwise the statement hangs in the air. Another religious writer, and along with art critic and scholar - o.Pavel Florensky believed, for example, that "the main task of fine arts at the surface - the organization of space."

Okay, back to light:

Сообщение от Guriev, Igor

The light only comes on the same subjects.
Light without the objects are not visible.
When he goes to the Sun to the Earth, it is invisible, right?

Thus, the failure of abstract painting is quite obvious.

?? Let us turn to the commentaries:

Сообщение от IV

It is relevant to the question of whether he is an artist at all, or a painter. As I understand it, Igor Sasha has in mind that non-figurative art (specifically painting) is impossible, since light enters our eyes only by reflection from objects. And if the main task of art is the transmission of light, aimless (abstract) painting can not exist in principle. Consequently, those painters who wrote the so-called abstract composition does not painters and decorators decorators.

Сообщение от I-V

If the task of painting - no webcasts of light, there is a danger that the painting could be called even painted the car hood. Let me explain why:

See the painting, we can only by light reflected by the paint?

Yes.

Thus, the painting - a reflection of light from the paint?

Yes.

Painted in red hood Zaporozhets - painting?

None. But only if the task of painting - the transfer of light rather than light itself.

In my opinion, it is logical

In my opinion, not really.
More:

"To see the painting, we can only by light reflected by the paint?"
Yes, but the reflected light from the paint, only one of the conditions of perception. There are other conditions - eye movement activity, and so on.

Thus, the painting - a reflection of light from the paint?
None. Painting - a colorful space on the canvas, organized by the will of the artist. The light is just an abstract background of perception of this space. At this point, your line of reasoning breaks.

Painted in red hood "plows" - painting?
None. Since the painting is not put pictorial problems.

And finally:

... no matter how pointless product in terms of the usual things around us, anyway, is that it gives, is the thing, and is the most pointless product of lead outside of himself. And the difference from his usual works is that it is something unfamiliar to us in the physical world, did not occur, and we are for it have no name.

(P. Florensky)

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от IV

Igor Sasha, I apologize, but not too lightly you come to art?

You can come to the art of frivolous, can be ponderous.
You can never be approached.

I'm an art not "go up" from him not "depart," I'm just in it for as long as I remember.

Posted 1 hour 15 minutes

Сообщение от Art-lover; 1571003"

Probably not remember all that talk about light in this topic began with Shortcuts Igor Gurieva the opinion of the religious writer CS Lewis, that the main task of painting - the light transmission (unfortunately referred to the place of Lewis, I could not find).

Please.
http://lib.aldebaran.ru/author/lyuis..._braka__3.html
There is not copied, so I reprinted the three lines (inversion of the Spirit to the artist who appeared at the light):

"You forgot, - said the Spirit. - You yourself started not with it. Your first love was a light, and you began to write, to show it to others."

Only I would not want you to begin to challenge this obvious phrase.
There's still a bit higher there is another, glimpses of Paradise, etc.

Thanks for pushing me to count one of the most chilling lyrics 20 th century.
Which helped the formation of personality is not one million people, including me, a sinner.
One of the major texts in my life.