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28.08.2010, 19:51 | Язык оригинала: Русский #11 |
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Actually, if you do not think globally, and on topic, it must be remembered that no copyright imprints in Japan were up to the twentieth century. The role of the artist was limited to the implementation of the original sketch in ink, and marking coloring engraving proofs. Further work on the engraving other people, and copyright has been a publisher, an artist no control over the process was not.
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28.08.2010, 20:20 | Язык оригинала: Русский #12 |
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Thank you all for the interesting informatsiyu.Predlagaetsya engraving Hirosige Ando (Japan ,20-s) a respected firm of the prints 20000 rubley.Eto normal price for today? Grow if the price of similar products? Or just for fun?
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28.08.2010, 21:16 | Язык оригинала: Русский #13 |
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20-ies of the century? Apparently XX? Then, in my opinion expensive, resell more expensive would be virtually impossible, and not the fact that there will be invested back.
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29.08.2010, 00:11 | Язык оригинала: Русский #14 | |
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Цитата:
kr555, please follow the discussion. Wladzislaw, when he wrote your message (to which I replied) thought it was "global" as you put it. It is clear from the context of the debate, he responded to postAmateur and that no doubt, wrote about the prints at all. Yes, and the subsequent postWladzislaw and, convinces us that he talks about the European prints, but not about the Japanese. As an example, he refers to an engraving of Cezanne. But even if, as you suggest, "thinking about topography and talk only of Japanese prints, the concept of" lifetime impressions "are not meaningless, though, and finds Japanese-specific. Without a doubt, not only an artist but engraver and printmaker Japanese prints played a significant role in its creation. This is especially true of printers, who, after the artist had been discussed all shades of color, making the required number of prints (two hundred), ensuring coherence and harmony of the overall color score. Other words, the Japanese woodcut had collective method it is created. This means that the engraving could not be established without the concerted action of each of the participants in this process. And you will agree that the role of the artist in this process still predominant? I repeat, engravings created in coordination with the artist (although it probably was not often), what is, is possible only with his life. For example, we know that the artist Katsushika Hakusan watched the process of creating prints. His engravings from the series "Thirty-six Views of Mount Fuji" was sold for a very considerable sum ($ 1.340.000), and influenced by the price, in this case, not so much the rarity of the print, but what was known creation date imprint: he was printed in a first half of the 30's. XIX century, that precisely when the artist created this series and could in some degree of control over the process of creating impressions. Other prints of the same image, but do not have precise chronology, had been sold much cheaper (about $ 150.000 - $ 500.000), despite the fact that sold five years after the sale of print, which has established a record price. This means that for the person who bought this print, it was essential it is that impression was created with the artist's life. Sales date 11/27/2002 Hammer price EUR 1,350,000 EUR 1,350,000 - USD 1,341,360 - GBP 864,675 Estimate EUR 1,400,000 - 1,800,000 Category Print Collection Huguette Berès Medium Print, Woodcut in colors (oban yoko e) (36) Location Paris (FR) Auction house Sotheby's Dated c.1830-1835 Lot number 107 Последний раз редактировалось Тютчев; 29.08.2010 в 01:15. |
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29.08.2010, 01:14 | Язык оригинала: Русский #15 | |||
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http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/l...0-21bf4862f9ad I guess (on the photo is hard to understand) that he print, who left behind a million-plus, differed a unique preservation. Then it does not and can not be a firm price, such copies of the famous engravings in the state "like yesterday published" isolated and virtually priceless, but the price is determined only by fanaticism want to get it. In general, the quality of prints is very much falls as overprint circulation. The first copies look awesome, the line thickness of hair, bright colors, perfect geometry. If the engraving was popular, it was printed for several years, and later during his lifetime impressions can not watch without tears ... All the same wood is soft, razdalbyvaetsya very quickly. So it is important that it was not just a lifetime, but the number of the very first printed. |
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Эти 5 пользователя(ей) сказали Спасибо kr555 за это полезное сообщение: | Peter (29.08.2010), SAH (30.08.2010), Евгений (29.08.2010), Кирилл Сызранский (30.08.2010), раскатов (29.08.2010) |
29.08.2010, 01:31 | Язык оригинала: Русский #16 | |||
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Wladzislaw reply to this message: Цитата:
And my message, he said, referring to European prints. This is evidenced by the fact that he cites as an example an engraving of Cezanne. Цитата:
Последний раз редактировалось Тютчев; 29.08.2010 в 19:45. |
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29.08.2010, 01:42 | Язык оригинала: Русский #17 |
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And about how Hokusai watched the printing process - will give here an example. Let them be the same Red Fuji, if nothing about it it came from the collection of the Boston MFA:
http://www.mfa.org/collections/searc...x=0&submit.y=0 They have a collection of six prints, and easy to see that among them there are no two identical (even if we discard the third, which is a side option, imprinted with the other blocks). The boundary between red and green dancing totally unpredictable way, never the author of such would not be allowed, if the process is actually controlled. But in reality it is only noted in black and white a print 2 colors, and an indication of a smooth transition from one to another. Next - art printer ... |
29.08.2010, 02:14 | Язык оригинала: Русский #18 | |||
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Preservation, quality of prints and unusual color combinations - all this can play a role in the formation of prices. But in this case clearly established that the imprint of the first edition, and it is so significantly affected the price. Added after 1 minute Цитата:
Added after 5 minutes Цитата:
Читать дальше...
Последний раз редактировалось Тютчев; 29.08.2010 в 19:54. Причина: Добавлено сообщение |
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29.08.2010, 11:58 | Язык оригинала: Русский #19 | |
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I think the buyer with the help of its experts was able to establish that he sold at Sotheby's imprint is one of the first, why pay so much money. Not because Sotheby's has put the approximate spread of dates. In general, for the rest, I agree, can not even see what else to argue |
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30.08.2010, 01:16 | Язык оригинала: Русский #20 | |
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Yet with the dating of all is not so, as you write. Hokusai began work on the series in late 1820 and intended to make a hundred engravings. However, only 36 were issued sheets, which later added ten more. For example, in the collection of the Pushkin Museum are 19 prints in this series - 14 of them were published between 1829 - 1892 years, various publishers, and 5 - peregravirovki 1948. As you can see, there are engravings published already in the 29 th year. And they were published throughout the XIX century with the very boards that were cut initially. Ie used the same boards that are cut first engraver. And only a change in printers. Naturally, the published proofs can be classified by the quality of print, which affects the state board (which, by itself, of course, will wear out over time). In other words, from a qualitative impression of a less quality. If you classify impressions by the result of the printer, then the collector must have, and it will be important, these prints were printed in the printer, receiving counseling or a Hokusai prints, printed when it was impossible for natural reasons. It is known that the artist followed the process of making prints, and therefore, he could do it in the late 20's - 30's. Although probably a major role in determining the value of engravings for the collector of Japanese prints of the 19 th century is the quality of print and rare. What was once it is printed so it is more qualitative. Apparently there was some possibility of more or less accurate dating, if kept in the Pushkin Museum reprint of this series, dated 29 th year. But be aware that the sequence of creation of prints is not installed. Hokusai applied in a series of three different signatures: "Hokusai kai Iitsu hitsu", "Hokusai Iitsu" and "Zen Hokusai Iitsu hitsu". Perhaps the earliest are nine prints, signed Hokusai kai Iitsu hitsu "(Hokusai, changed his name to Iitsu"), which include such well-known engravings as Red Fuji, The Great Wave, and Mount Fuji during a thunderstorm. This means that it is possible to date the prints on some other grounds. And, most likely, that in some cases dating can be accurate to indicate the year of publication, and some only with the relevant time frame in which the prints could be issued (as in the case imprint, which was sold at auction for $ 1,340,000 and referred to above). I do not think that the engravings, sold for an impressive sum, it is "the devil knows what kind of impression." I think experts managed to establish exactly what impression it was published between 1830 and 1835 years. Prints the late 20's and early 30's. Probably in the market there is not much that makes this an extremely valuable impression. The print, which was sold at Christie's (the one that you have shown above), was classified by experts to print made later. No other reasonable explanation for this difference in price I do not see. Why are you so sure this impression belong to the same period (30-35-ies.)? Do you have a good reason? I think if the experts Christie would your confidence, then they certainly would indicate the most accurate date. And it would be logical, because it would increase the cost of the lot and would allow the auction house to earn more money. This is the meaning auction. Perhaps this confidence was a collector. And if he was right then it turns out that he bought this lot as erroneously undervalued. From what we can congratulate him. The auction house had set the date as accurately as possible. This is necessary in order to determine estimeyt for this lot and bring it to the attention of potential buyers. You understand, this is also dictated by the logic of the auction. A guided buyer dating auction house or not, we do not know. Also, for us it remains a mystery, he determined the value of that impression or have consulted with experts, but you must admit it is not so important. Discussion with an interesting conversationalist - a pleasure. The main provisions, I absolutely agree with you. And thanks for the excuse to get deeper into this interesting topic. I am sure that most (perhaps all) of the facts and the provisions cited by me in this and other messages were you aware of before me. But for the orderliness of presentation without them was hard. The most famous engravings from the series "36 species of Mount Fuji": Red Fuji, The Great Wave, and Mount Fuji during a storm. Последний раз редактировалось Тютчев; 30.08.2010 в 04:50. |
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