Experts on cultural values. Can we trust the experts and how?

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Artem, if you are interested in the product-level writers' directory fakes "(conditionally - Shishkin there Vasiliev or Jones), then such things should be provenance, the history of the ownership, existence. Shishkin thing now just out of nowhere like a yo-the-box pop up can not: all the great things he had been at different shows, they are known to art historians, even if we assume that a painting exhibition was bought, and went to a new owner at the meeting, then 100 years have been replaced with several owners, all moving things leave a mark, the thing itself participated in the exhibitions mentioned in the literature, it is known to the market, everyone knows about selling it before the departure of Mr. X in the 89 th the Petersburg to Mr. Y for posrednechestve shustrika * etc. One can, of course, mentally nafantazirovat that the author somewhere in Bavaria, wrote something on the order of a baron, and she was hanging in his castle 100 years in the hunting room, but now the new owners /heirs decided to sell the paintings - "refresh obstanovochku" so to speak, and put this landscape Herr, and Schischkin, and the auction Einesehrkompliziertenamen in Feld-von -Träumen , e, where it was bought by smart dilerok Vasya and brought back to his hometown of Rostov-on-Don. But here we must think over this romping story itself, experts from Grabar can until it does not scare Shishkin. A?

[Тихая Сапа]

Sorry.
Hoped that the debate will go on personality.
So like roast jokes about expert bloopers (((Because the funniest thing that guides and "reliable" experts and the transfer of condemning the "unreliable" experts are often called the same names

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от "Silent Sapa

So like roast jokes about expert bloopers

So tell me.

[Artem]

Сообщение от Silent Sapa

Because the funniest thing that guides and" reliable "experts and the transfer of condemning the" unreliable "experts are often called the same names

is absolutely correct posed the question -Golden words.
That is the reason why I wrote to you on a forum to discuss the experts from the directory ...

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

in such things should be provenance, the history of the ownership, existence. Shishkin thing now just out of nowhere like a yo-the-box pop up can not: all the great things he had been at different shows, they are known to art historians, the thing itself participated in the exhibitions mentioned in the literature, it is known to the market

 This is all completely understandable, but how and when to do that sort of buying a birthday, wedding, anniversary, etc. Not always easy, but for a man who does not have experience and knowledge to understand this situation, especially in the presence of THG examinations. or center Grabar, is publishing albums "White City". This gift albums - the most complete collection of works. "Russian art. ... Publishing a lot of work to collect paintings from museums in other cities and even countries from the store, where they gathered dust for a long time. Aivazovsky Kryzhitsky, Kuindzhi, Lagorio, Levitan, etc. frwd-books.ru> izdatelstv -whitetown.htm. - , many of these works have appeared in the catalog fakes.
. About what, provenance can talk ... ... in the written examination - the picture was exhibited at an exhibition in XXXX, and etc. When it was discovered a series of fakes in my friends - they were in a difficult situation .... what I wrote earlier. The problem is not about money, money they were returned to the last cent. Were affected, two honest art dealers who trust these "experts" - The result speaks for itself.

But I want to stress once again and end up with what started the discussion on the forum - It is very important. . For all participants in the process. Only to identify problems associated with peer activities, help to make more interesting in terms of investment.
Thank you.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Artem; 1518531"

the victims were, two honest art dealers who trust these experts.

Art dealers fully trust these experts? What sort of art dealers? From the district city of Westminister in London?

Сообщение от Artem; 1518531"

But how and when to do that sort of buying a birthday, wedding, anniversary, etc.

This is what is 'fairly earned' make such gifts, "officials of all ranks"? Huh?
I think many of these unfortunates deceived by "officials" will be sorry they empathize?

 

[Artem]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky; 1518651"

What sort of art dealers? From the district city of Westminister in London?

I can assure you they are not employees - Deza,

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

This is what is 'fairly earned' make such gifts," officials of all ranks "? Huh?
I think many of these unfortunates deceived by "officials" will be sorry they empathize?

This answer I hope will suit .- officials take bribes to 319 billion dollars a year,
but want more. NewsAM /NewsAMShow.asp

Search sympathy for the officials - and I was not in the plans. I'm just stating a fact.

Need to express sympathy with art dealers, as they are always extreme.

All that I am writing this more for those who still want to understand and assess the situation with the expertise.

Unfortunately, I have no time for empty thoughts - not about anything ....

[тата]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

Artem, if you are interested in the product-level writers' directory fakes "(conditionally - Shishkin there Vasiliev or Jones), then such things should be provenance, the history of the ownership, existence . Shishkin thing now just out of nowhere like a yo-the-box pop up can not: all the great things he had been at different shows, they are known to art historians, even if we assume that a painting exhibition was bought, and went to a new owner at the meeting, then 100 years have been replaced with several owners, all moving things leave a mark, the thing itself participated in the exhibitions mentioned in the literature, it is known to the market, everyone knows about selling it before the departure of Mr. X in the 89 th the Petersburg to Mr. Y for posrednechestve shustrika * etc. One can, of course, mentally nafantazirovat that the author somewhere in Bavaria, wrote something on the order of a baron, and she was hanging in his castle 100 years in the hunting room, but now the new owners /heirs decided to sell the paintings - "refresh obstanovochku" so to speak, and put this landscape Herr, and Schischkin, and the auction Einesehrkompliziertenamen in Feld-von -Träumen , e, where it was bought by smart dilerok Vasya and brought back to his hometown of Rostov-on-Don. But here we must think over this romping story itself, experts from Grabar can until it does not scare Shishkin. A?

Personally for me the provenance does not matter, it would be good, whatever and experts held that position (in my practice and I know the appearance of "hell" happened meter Polenov, Arkhipov, Konchalovsky suit?) Paramount Pictures and stories matter-138- e. Expert, possessing the knowledge, experience, flair and a good eye, plus all the modern technology expertise should give competent opinion. A provenance it would be better not to report before the conclusion, that is not confusing.
List directory of experts in my view is short. What they do not come, for example, Mihienko and Gusarov.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

[QUOTE="Tata, 1519251]fit?[/QUOTE]

I also met with "devils", but to further their movement trying to dig out their history and the customer is not seeing a "raw" thing.

[size="1"]Added after 3 minutes[/size]

Сообщение от Tata, 1519251

expert, possessing the knowledge, experience, flair and a good eye, plus all the modern technology expertise should give competent opinion.

I wrote about the attitude toward provenance consumer, and not an expert.
Voila:

But here we must think over this romping story itself, experts from Grabar can until it does not scare Shishkin.

[тата]

Сообщение от Artem

The most clear and comprehensive answer! Short and sweet. Thank you

I follow the advice of members of the forum, looked at sites, the International Confederation of antique and art dealers, Art Consulting, (roster). This list is virtually identical to the list, the JWP. Experts on cultural values (the first names of artists), but an expert on the PDI, the Faberge.



Aspect of my interests - is to eliminate the possibility of running into an incompetent and simply inadequate to the expert, such as the chief expert of the film by Boris Sobolev, "Art on Tap," Believe me, unfortunately, had a bitter experience. When he spoke to people, you are so lucky - a rare picture of a museum value. And then a picture pops up in the catalog imitations. And it's not about the money problems with money-back no. It is likely that problems arise in situations such as I now peredaril (someone ....), Traded, sold, etc., and I can not afford to take it back for various reasons ... Here is the problem!
 Sometimes me and my colleagues have to face a very difficult situation - a choice of an expert.
  Communication in this format - very interesting and productive. Thank you.

The best way not to run into inadequate experts, is interaction with people involved in the same case that you (the collectors, restorers, dealers). And ideally, better learn to understand yourself.
When you purchase does not have to hurry if you're not sure. You can tell amazing provenance, exhibition catalogs to find the old (or print them). A few years ago sold the fake Kuindzhi, presented an old exhibition catalog with a poor, black and white photography work, except that the picture on it was not the same, some have noticed.
With regard Gerashchenko (from), then be prepared sometimes to get an unexpected failure, it would seem the most obvious things. My friends, it faced. Not confirm the real thing, much worse than to confirm the forgery, in most cases, these fake after a while become apparent (examples of very many), but that would restore the "good name" of the normal work has to work hard. Especially if it is considered that the expert is better all familiar with the work of this artist.

[Wladzislaw]

Сообщение от Tata, 1519301

Not to confirm the real thing, much worse than to confirm the forgery, in most cases, these fake after a while become apparent (examples of very many), but that would restore the" good name "of the normal work has to work hard .

Once upon a time, gave me a picture in one place Moscow. I am told that the picture is nothing, but we need to check. Check, there is actually nothing - the author of west, if presented in public museums, the regional there. Well, we shall show. Featured grabar (why?). Da show ... say - alas, apparently not true you have a picture. But we ordered a small examination, and need to order more (already for my money), it can and will be present . I took the picture and did not know anything about Moscow's expertise