Funeral Moscow

[Вивьен]

Cyril Syzransky, and I'm about the same. When the Bolsheviks in 1937, took away my great-grandfather (paternal Tyupikova, maternal Chistyakova), they are thrown into the street his wife and two children (the youngest was less than a year and the temperature 39) and in addition to jewelry, paintings and other valuables are not squeamish even baby tub ! Sealed a huge apartment in the city center - and then made her communal.

[ВЯЧЕСЛАВ]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

Vivien, please explain that seditious against Soviet power in the quoted passage, you saw you? I just can not enter.

A bit off topic.
  This is the story of our former neighbors in a communal, when I lived in ul.Schepkina (not in honor of the actor, and revolutionary). Even during the defense was set curfew chas.Pri Romania it is preserved - voyna.A here Shura (neighbor) had rebenok.Vidit was wrong. I decided to run despite k.chas doktoru.Na to hit the streets - but also for the Germans, mototsikle.Ne to remember as explained. The German put in a wheelchair and told to show where ehat.Priehali.Stuchat.Doktor from fright lost his rechi.Nemets sees-it shvah.Poehali in part. A military doctor examined it, gave the pills and left until the morning . pomer.Tak boy is not what you dumaete.Posle war Shura dragged the NKVD already up to 56 goda.A denounced - the doctor.
During the war, Odessa suffered enough - mostly in the early days of aviation and the guerrillas that blew up booby-trapped building in tsentre.Slava God failed to blow up the Opera - did not work.
The first order of the Romanian commander consisted of several items of urgent business. In particular - urban road maintenance, repair and reconstruction of the mountains. Plumbing, repair roofs and sewage trub.Byl another point - the collection of materials for the restoration of the Transfiguration Cathedral.
This order can be seen in the Local History Museum (Defense of Odessa). How much grief brought war. And it is no longer alive, who remembers those sobytiya.Hotya ... Here's a nonsense. Today, I read the news - the number of participants of the Second World War in Odessa and the area has increased over the last month, 40 thousand! thanks to the decree adopted by the Rada (feel-election on the nose) and on the application grazhdan.Da whom war - and to whom your own mother.

[Вивьен]

Сообщение от VYACHESLAV

And it is no longer alive, who remember those events.

There is, my grandmother (the daughter of the repressed, by the way it took away from the street. Shchepkina, 10) remembers when only the war began, people have cast their shops and started looting. By Catherine from the grocery store, rolled the barrels of wine. Grandmother herself, as an 11-year-old girl who went to open a gift shop on Deribasovskaya and took his casket from the shells, but then there were Romanians and began arresting. And later, she decided to go with a friend walking in Lyustdorf for milk, but on the road drove a crowd of Jews to be shot. Who could not walk were shot on the road. Grandmother each collected from the floor liners. They approached a German grandmother grabbed by the collar and wanted to do with the Jews. It is saved by the fact that her grandmother Matilda (my praprababka) was a German woman and her grandchildren spoke German. My aunt started to ask Germans in fluent German, so he released her, that she was not Jewish and her grandmother - a German woman. It saved her and that boy's life. German shoved them and ordered them "Quickly run!".

[Allena]

VYACHESLAV, Vivian, please accept my sincere respect for the memory, for what it is today and always remain in the children!

[Маруся]

This is probably the same example that propaganda has always avoided: when fighting the state, people are people (despite everything).

[Allena]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

Here recalled book publicist Vladimir Soloukhin "Letters from the Russian Museum.
And I quote from another of his books, "Reading Lenin".

Kirill! Thank you. Yesterday found and read this book. Read was terrible. And so, in particular, that Lenin published all these years without cuts ... Ie recap it all, some phenomena could quote pages, but most have not thought about the meaning of read and quoted. That's what scary.

[Сталевар]

Сообщение от Maroussia

when fighting the state, people are people (despite everything).

You reason well, sitting in a warm seat. In war, people change. Someone is changing, and someone shows his true insides before his death, the fear. Someone has to turn into an animal, only in order to survive, and someone will look straight no matter what.
You read Bykova "Sotnikov, watched the movie" Ascension "? If not - I strongly advise.

Very accurately describes the "men in gray uniforms," Simon during the Great Patriotic War:

"But do you train people?" No one will believe
when meeting dressed in uniforms of the beast.
They do not eat like people - like beasts
swallow steam pork raw.

They and habits are not human, tell
Can any of the people tortured
old man pulling on a rope,
rape his mother in front of children?

Burying people alive the peace,
for the fact that the appearance with you is not one.
No! You lie! Alien renamed!
Humans, you have no one considers long time. "

[color="# 666686"]Added after 1 minute[/color]
Generally, I advise to ask around about the subject of veterans' man of war "- you have changed his mind.

[Allena]

Stalevar, does not happen only black and white. Simonovsky verses in this case does not figure as a typical example of propaganda. There is nothing wrong in this case because I do not have, but it was so, and if the poem was played for which it is the role of (what is no doubt one iota), it means that it was the right cause.

The question is about something else: not the people thrown into this meat grinder, divided into "black" and "white". We all were born after the war, and how much we read or watched movies or listened to the memories, we still can not imagine the state of those people who have had it for a test.

Man - he was always a man is only in such difficult times manifests its essence. And hardly anyone can predict how behaves this or that man at the front. Someone in essence - a sadist, someone - a looter, a shopkeeper, someone in the child's fire can not, and the other will burn right and left, drowning out the voice of his conscience by the words "fog of war", but some a provincial accountant will be noble man - a man in the worst times of my life.

Do not divide the warring people into good and bad. Psychology man at war - is complicated. This is now a soldier specially prepared, and then this thought much (in the modern sense of the term). Propaganda was, but still some, but now everything is different.

The memory will never go away - neither of the crimes, nor about the heroism, nor infamy, nor of the nobility. But people are people are always. Another question: what?

Read the memories of the artist Leonid Rabicheva. he was a boy at the front hit. Just say: read it will be very unpleasant. I have trouble myself forced to the end to finish reading, but a man published is repentance, because to live with this in mind it is intolerable. And how many (both sides) who publicly repented, and at night, these nightmares are going through again? most ordinary people, only the war a broken?

"The Island" Loungin look. Not each of those broken by the good fortune to be heard in lifelong penance for a moment of fear and cowardice displayed by the war, boy. And the units must have been given to pay their bills here, as the hero of the film.

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от Allena

Stalevar, is not only black and white. Simonovsky verses in this case does not figure as a typical example of propaganda.

Allena, if you talk to, then all the best that was written by mankind, it is propaganda. What can make more blood in the veins throb artist than hatred of the enemy and love for the motherland. These two sacred feelings were not unique to Russian, and those people who defended their land during the Great Patriotic War, but also all those who have ever been, by the will of fate, find themselves in the same situation. This was and will always, at all times!
      Simonov was a veteran in the same, like my grandparents, who, I think these lines did not seem propaganda. I am sure these lines did not seem propaganda and the millions who died on the battlefields, and possibly mount an offensive with these verses in my heart. Propaganda is something that is circulating in the Western media and its minions, in order that would take away our victory. Propaganda can not be called that raised the spirit of the soldiers who fought for the Motherland! If this is repeated millions of times and remained in millions of hearts, it is not propaganda! No propaganda can not force a man to sacrifice his life! They were dying for something they believe in, and not for the imposed propaganda!
 
If the roads you your house ...

Poet: Simonov K. M.

If the roads you your house
Where are you Russian reared was
Under timbered ceiling,
Where are you, in the cradle rocking, floating;
If the roads in the house
You have to wall oven and angles
Grandfather, grandfather and father
It footworn floors;

Читать дальше... 

If you poor dear garden
Since the May color, with the buzz of bees
And under a lime tree a hundred years ago
In the land of his grandfather dug in the table;
If you do not want me half
In your house Fascist trod,
So he sat down at the grandfather's desk
And the trees in the garden, broke ...

If your mother road --
You brought up the chest,
How long have no milk,
Only you can snuggle cheek;
If you make no forces
To a fascist, stand up to her becoming,
Beat wrinkled cheeks,
Scythes at hand winding;
To the same hands it
What carried you in the cradle,
Gad washed his clothes
And he was making the bed ...

If you father is not forgotten
With shaking your hands,
What a good soldier was
And lost in the Carpathian snows
What killed the Volga, the Don,
For the motherland your destiny;
If you do not want him
Turn over in his grave
To a soldier's portrait in the crosses
Took a fascist and the floor torn
And his mother's eyes
On his face was advancing ...

If you do not want to give
Tu, two of which went,
The one long kiss
You dared not - so fond of her, --
To the Germans it alive
We took by force, squeezing in the corner,
And they crucified her three,
Naked on the floor;
To get these three dogs
In the moans and the hatred in the blood
All that is sacred shore you yourself
All the force of masculine love ...

If you fascist with a gun
Do not ever want to give
Home, where you, wife and mother,
All that we call the homeland --
Know: no it will not save,
If you do not save her;
Know: no it does not kill,
If you did not kill.
And while it did not kill,
You keep quiet about their love,
Edge, where you grew up, and the house where he lived,
Do not call their homeland.
Let the fascists killed your brother,
Let the fascists killed neighbor --
This brother and neighbor, your revenge,
And you there is no excuse.
Someone else's back does not sit
From foreign rifles do not take revenge.
Once fascist killed your brother, --
It was he, and not a soldier.

So kill a fascist, that he,
And do not you lay on the ground,
Not in your house to moan
And it was the dead.
So he wanted his fault --
Let the lights in the house, not yours,
And let not your wife,
And let it be a widow.
Let isplachetsya not yours,
And his birth mother,
Not yours, and his family
Ponaprasnu let it be to wait.
So kill the same one though!
So kill him as quickly!
How many times you see him
So many times and kill him!

http://forum.artinvestment.ru/blog.php?b=2465
http://forum.artinvestment.ru/blog.php?b=2455

[Сталевар]

Сообщение от Allena

Stalevar, is not only black and white. Simonovsky verses in this case does not figure as a typical example of propaganda. There is nothing wrong in this case because I do not have, but it was so, and if the poem was played for which it is the role of (what is no doubt one iota), it means that it was the right cause.

The question is about something else: not the people thrown into this meat grinder, divided into "black" and "white". We all were born after the war, and how much we read or watched movies or listened to the memories, we still can not imagine the state of those people who have had it for a test.

Man - he was always a man is only in such difficult times manifests its essence. And hardly anyone can predict how behaves this or that man at the front. Someone in essence - a sadist, someone - a looter, a shopkeeper, someone in the child's fire can not, and the other will burn right and left, drowning out the voice of his conscience by the words "fog of war", but some a provincial accountant will be noble man - a man in the worst times of my life.

Do not divide the warring people into good and bad. Psychology man at war - is complicated. This is now a soldier specially prepared, and then this thought much (in the modern sense of the term). Propaganda was, but still some, but now everything is different.

The memory will never go away - neither of the crimes, nor about the heroism, nor infamy, nor of the nobility. But people are people are always. Another question: what?

Read the memories of the artist Leonid Rabicheva. he was a boy at the front hit. Just say: read it will be very unpleasant. I have trouble myself forced to the end to finish reading, but a man published is repentance, because to live with this in mind it is intolerable. And how many (both sides) who publicly repented, and at night, these nightmares are going through again? most ordinary people, only the war a broken?

"The Island" Loungin look. Not each of those broken by the good fortune to be heard in lifelong penance for a moment of fear and cowardice displayed by the war, boy. And the units must have been given to pay their bills here, as the hero of the film.

Alain, not divide people into black and white? Ie all people - gray impersonal mass?
And if a person divides the black and white, he was promoting.
Indeed, until the war will not pass, you will be tolerant. And how find yourself at war - immediately priobretesh clear views, and not vague tolerantovschinu.

Movies Lungina I watched everything.

Alain interested in your opinion on the Chechen war? There, too, all the people? No black and white?