How to invest USD 3000-10000

[fross]

Сообщение от qwerty

I do not quite understand that here you can discuss - is enough to compare available on this site indexes art market with the stock indices, indices of real estate, commodities, etc. In my opinion, everything is clear. If you do not buy all sorts of rubbish, of course.

Indices only show how these investments attractive. Investing in art the most difficult type of investment, even with the choice of quality items (which in itself is an art), - very, very not easy to assess investment potential. And when compared with investments in the same real estate in Moscow over the past five years, the safety and reliability of the above, and profit, too, not to mention that knowledge to do so much less.
Therefore, I am very interesting proposals and Alexander Cyril topic. Meanwhile, from the discussions at the forum I have the feeling that the art market is subject to the rules as a joke with a businessman buying up the monkeys.

[AlexanderG]

I do not quite understand that here you can discuss - is enough to compare available on this site indexes art market with the stock indices, indices of real estate, commodities, etc. In my opinion, everything is clear. If you do not buy all sorts of rubbish, of course.

Chto takoe vsiakaia drian '?

K primeru, let desiat 'nazad ia pokupal kartiny na garaz seilah za $ 0,5 i prodaval ih za $ 10 - protsentnoe sootnoshenie na investitsiiu luchshe chem na Rembranta!

Indeksy na art rynke vo mnogom ne sootvetstvuiut deistvitel'nosti:
Osnovnoe - otsutstvuet standartizatsiia - aktsiia Coca-Coly - stoit odinakovo vezde, i vse oni stoiat odinakovo.

Poprobuite prodat 'kartiny avstraliiskih hudoznikov za te ze tseny v Moskve i naoborot.

[qwerty]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Indeksy na art rynke vo mnogom ne sootvetstvuiut deistvitel'nosti:
Osnovnoe - otsutstvuet standartizatsiia - aktsiia Coca-Coly - stoit odinakovo vezde, i vse oni stoiat odinakovo.

Poprobuite prodat 'kartiny avstraliiskih hudoznikov za te ze tseny v Moskve i naoborot.

I can not agree. How do you know the NASDAQ index is calculated based on stock price of the 30 largest multinational corporations in the world, there is much more than 30 artists who are considered "international", whose works are alike in Europe and Australia, and Asia: From Bruegel and Cranach to Rosenquist and Warhol, so that a correctly counted indexes art market may well be relied upon.

I can not agree with fross: in recent years, prices for art have risen higher than in the real estate, to the same - try today to sell that same property, but with a good painting is no problem.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

A dvaite nachniom novuiu temu - za i protiv investitsii v zivopis'. Mozet byt 'interesno. Tol'ko. pozaluista, nachnite vy russkimi bukvami.

Let's begin, though already the subject discussed here.
But we are just at the pros and cons sorientiruemsya, yes?
Today, in the late afternoon and closed.
However, AlexanderG, can you in this subject (as an exception!!!: P) will use this transleytor, which you have offered five times? : shy:

[Meister]

Сообщение от qwerty

Quote:
Note from AlexanderG
A dvaite nachniom novuiu temu - za i protiv investitsii v zivopis'.

I do not quite understand that here you can discuss

  1. It's like discussing for or against investment in the Bank, using the argument as well, they still sometimes fall! Investing in art took hold and will be an increasingly prominent place in the portfolios of investors. Nobody said that it is easy. And call at least one type of investment, in which things work safely and without risk. I agree with qwerty about indexes - there are a number of international artists, who know everything and they cost quite clearly defined. And I believe that after 100 years they will cost more, but will there be a company Coca-Cola, if 20 years later it turns out that it was causing irreparable harm, I'm not sure. Therefore, art-indices is quite real instrument, which by the skill and desire can be successfully used ...

[AlexanderG]

"Art as an investment is a misconception that rests on false premises, both aesthetic and financial. Art is a matter of judgment. The word` art 'is value neutral "(Chanin, 1990, p.79).

This statement is in direct correlation with Marx's concept of "nothing can have value, without being an object of utility" (Marx, 1867).

To Kirill Syzranskiy

Mne, chestno govoria, proshce po angliiski na temy art rynka pisat ': D

Translity slishkom gromozdki Вложение 103065

To qwerty
30 artists that are considered "international", whose works are alike in Europe and Australia, and Asia: From Bruegel and Cranach to Rosenquist and Warhol, so that properly counted indexes art market may well be relied upon.
Vo - pervyh ne stoiat oni odinakovo v etih stranah.
Vo - vtoryh oni ne stoiat ot 3,000 do 10,000 y.e.

"Art, however, proved unsuitable as a financial instrument, not only because of its illiquidity but because there is just not enough real art around" (Feigen, 2000, p.114).

Not every painted canvas is an object of art; sometimes it is just a second-hand canvas that cost less than a brand new one. Standards of quality were pushed aside to the point of barely existing.
The above points clearly explain why dealers hardly ever recommend buying art as an investment, but readily supply a buyer with many `realistic 'figures published from many` reliable' sources, like Art Auction Records, Art Auction Indexes, Price Guides etc.
There is a huge gap between collecting art and investing in art. For the pure collector, price appreciation of art is one of the less important benefits and pleasures.
Watson states baldly: "Forget` investing 'in art. If money is all you are interested in, look upon the art market as a speculator's market. Wait for a boom and then act quickly. This may not be a very attractive position to take , morally or aesthetically, but it is what evidence suggests "

[Meister]

strongly disagree that it is impossible to love both art and invest in it ... it could easily be two interdependent concepts ... Even more, they can complement each other ... because the understanding of art can make the right investments, and the received benefit to replenish its collection. I understand there are trying to say that art - super-something that has nothing to do with material substance. Perhaps it is, but in our world, its value varies quite material conditional units. And, for good (not paying attention to contemporary art), this value is not taken from the air, and is proof of recognition of creativity or that artists are not one, but few others. If I like Magritte's work, I can not go and take over the job just so that it would be logical if iiskusstvo extremely high spiritual. But at the confluence of certain circumstances and the availability of my money I can afford to buy it. Otherwise, nothing. And indeed the art - not oil and brush it work. It was this work we appreciate.

[AlexanderG]

To Meister

It is this work and we appreciate

Da nikogda v zisni kartina ne otsenivalas' po vlozennomu trudu (vo vsiakom sluchae posle XVIII veka).

Po-vashemu poluchaetsia, chto tsena kartiny eto materialy i trud vlozennye v proizvodstvo?

Duhovnost 'tut voobsche ne prichiom.

Tsena kartiny segodni eto prosto uslovnaia dogovorionnost 'mezdu pokupatelem i prodavtsom.

[qwerty]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

"Art as an investment is a misconception that rests on false premises, both aesthetic and financial. Art is a matter of judgment. The word` art 'is value neutral "(Chanin, 1990, p.79 ).

This statement is in direct correlation with Marx's concept of "nothing can have value, without being an object of utility" (Marx, 1867).


To qwerty
30 artists that are considered "international", whose works are alike in Europe and Australia, and Asia: From Bruegel and Cranach to Rosenquist and Warhol, so that properly counted indexes art market may well be relied upon.
Vo - pervyh ne stoiat oni odinakovo v etih stranah.
Vo - vtoryh oni ne stoiat ot 3,000 do 10,000 y.e.

"Art, however, proved unsuitable as a financial instrument, not only because of its illiquidity but because there is just not enough real art around" (Feigen, 2000, p.114).

Not every painted canvas is an object of art; sometimes it is just a second-hand canvas that cost less than a brand new one. Standards of quality were pushed aside to the point of barely existing.
The above points clearly explain why dealers hardly ever recommend buying art as an investment, but readily supply a buyer with many `realistic 'figures published from many` reliable' sources, like Art Auction Records, Art Auction Indexes, Price Guides etc.
There is a huge gap between collecting art and investing in art. For the pure collector, price appreciation of art is one of the less important benefits and pleasures.
Watson states baldly: "Forget` investing 'in art. If money is all you are interested in, look upon the art market as a speculator's market. Wait for a boom and then act quickly. This may not be a very attractive position to take , morally or aesthetically, but it is what evidence suggests "

AlexanderG, I am ready to listen to your opinion, but would like to see it does not consist of a set of quotations from Marx to the old Mr. Feigin (incidentally, made his fortune actually to art-investment).
First, do not understand your point of view on the cost of work recognized world-class artists in different countries: I can assure you that the cost of Breughel or Picasso at auction or in galleries in Hong Kong or New York is virtually the same, because in these auctions involving buyers from around the world .
Secondly, of course, for the 3-10 thousand can not get much work these artists, but it is possible to buy some lithography, whose prices do not grow at a slower pace than the oil.
Thirdly, I agree with you that not everyone painty canvas is a work of art, but I did and wrote that he did not have to buy all sorts of rubbish.
Fourth, a confirmation of my view is that over the past five years, every major bank has started an art department of investment.

[Meister]

I say that what we see in the picture - the result of efforts of the artist, but is not it? and we appreciate innovation, craftsmanship and execution of the idea - and this, again, the result of the efforts of one man. As for pricing - not an agreement, but a combination of many factors.