Trinity Rublev /Sad news from the Tretyakov Gallery

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

Note from Eugene
true, stolen Bolshivikov icons, relics should be returned the church and not just for three days ..

  Quote Eugene. I ask: a painting stolen by the Bolsheviks must return the owners or heirs?

[antip]

Ladies and gentlemen, carefully read your reasoning on the icon of Andrei Rublev
and overpowered me a strange confusion, the individual claims which have
Where is our national, Orthodox sokrovischu.Izvestno that
way to present the Faith to many heavy and long, the evidence of truth in
Bogogoiskatelstve often vague and malovyrazitelny, so as to
comprehension of the Arts, where everything is required, or natural-bred talent.
  A year ago, watched the prayer and the singing of psalms nuns in front of "Trinity"
Andrei Rublev in the Tretyakov Gallery (!). We sang at a quarter to vote, adding atmosphere
Hall such expressiveness, such a grace, that I visit the temples
from case to case felt ashamed of himself for his inability to comprehend simple
national culture, not to mention trying cognition Orthodox sacraments.
After completing the songs could not resist and asked sarshuyu group of nuns,
sweet and charming woman, very moving and not for years (80-90 years) sneaky:
"In the church, the more convenient, perhaps, was to pray for this great icon?"
For that I received a wise answer: "We do not pray to the icon, and the Lord God, and the place
location of the icon is not so important, God s e d e, and in the church here and in the doorway,
important where the man next to God or poodal.Blazhen who believe.

[Selene]

Сообщение от antip

For that I received a wise answer: "We do not pray to the icon, and the Lord God, and the place
location of the icon is not so important, God s e d e, and in the church here and in the doorway,
important where the man next to God or poodal.Blazhen who believe.

Rather, I read all the same akathist before the icon. (It consists of Kondakov and Ikos, first reading, second - sing).
The answer was certainly wise, do not allow to enter into a long and unpromising dispute, even if an opponent like this.
In addition, to pray in the museum an entrant. But to serve, for example, pray before the icon will still be difficult.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

At the Trinity every year, this icon is transferred to the church of St. Nicholas in Tolmachi at the Tretyakov Gallery.

[LCR]

Сообщение от antip

After completing the songs could not resist and asked sarshuyu group of nuns,
sweet and charming woman, very moving and not for years (80-90 years) sneaky:
"In the church, the more convenient, perhaps, was to pray for this great icon?"
For that I received a wise answer: "We do not pray to the icon, and the Lord God, and the place
location of the icon is not so important, God s e d e, and in the church here and in the doorway,
important where the man next to God or poodal.Blazhen who believe.

What you wonderful people, Antipov!

[Glasha]

Сообщение от LCR

What you wonderful people, Antipov!

  ... Okay. Thank you, Antipas.

[sss]

Follow the discussion with the first message, expecting that someone will look at the problem from a slightly different angle - a comment on the letter itself.
Now that the passion seems to be settled, do not even want to stir ... But ...

Message from Mr. L. Nersessian very similar appeal to the workers. It has done its job by translating the essence of the conversation in a plane, not for the essence (think outside the forum - too). The point is this: the authorities said, and it complied without question, without consulting me.
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L. AN: «No formal orders (such as the order of the Minister of Culture) in this regard has yet been received, and now we have only a mild letter of the Patriarch with a touching request to comply with smb feelings of believers and with the addition of some psychobabble about tests ahead of us, from which these things seem to be an event we must protect (it is about a crisis, or something?) »
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The tone is clear. Lack of education offset excess of ignorance.

So, before leaving on the Crimean shaft, something "like the order of the Minister of Culture" was, and that was enough so as not to wash dirty linen in public and not "stand on the war path" (or accept, because it was invited to take part ...).

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L. AN: «And if we unquestioningly obeying someone else's idiotic whim ...
This - I repeat! - Wanton caprice of the man who thinks himself a champion of piety and a restorer of "historical justice". And has unlimited opportunities to satisfy their whims. And yet - the cowardly and criminal galereyskom superiors, who are not ready to defend what a treasure, which, by the will of fate, was at his disposal ».
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"An experienced functionary" (the patriarch) asked for three days that rightfully belongs to the church and is a sacred place - presented to as if he had asked Rental's squares, to meet our dear guests.

All further discussions about the national treasures, poor preservation, etc. - Just trampled the protection of professional ambition and sound like a justification of its correctness perturbed, pursuing only one goal - to provoke a wave of mass protests, with the inevitable involvement of discussions of faith, of private property, historical justice, education, hypocrisy, tolerance, courage, and so lizoblyudstva n. What actually happened.

From the standpoint of historical justice, because the icon - not a picture - place her in the temple. Why stay there, it ceases to be the property of the country - it is not clear in principle.
If the issue only to ensure temperature and humidity regimes - who prevents to him in the temple? Technically this is possible, though I consider myself a particularly "brazen and otvyaznym" ideologues "who like to say that it" will maintain herself ".

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L. AN: «What I want from you in connection with this, my friends? First, I want you to know about it. Secondly, I want to know is the greatest possible number of people - that if the crime is committed and will be ... »-------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------

Obviously, appealing to common sense, education and rationalism, readers, the author of the letter believes that everyone who learns about "the crime", must always be taken by it (author's) point of view. With such a spirit should appeal to Western audiences, which perceives the Orthodox culture in isolation from the cult, and will not deny myself the pleasure of once again ride on the bureaucratic lawlessness, human rights, etc.
If we assume that Mr. L. Nersessian, really despises all her heart about keeping a masterpiece, and in the heat of emotion took everything that happens as a looming truck, then sadly, I note: unfortunately, it does not allow even the thought that this world anything can happen apart from the will of the people. Apparently believing that the icon keeps it, he did not even realize that it can do the One who is depicted on it.

[iosif]

I decided to speak out, too, though not sure that the believer, and know for sure that is not Orthodox. But the theme still applies to all, because it is about respect for people.
1. Once for millions of Orthodox is so important icon, of course, must be in the Orthodox church.
2. Surely the church (I am referring to the organization) can not create safe conditions for its existence? Technically (climate, lighting, safety) is easy. Let it be done, and the shrine will remain among those for whom it is not just a museum piece, namely the shrine.
3. All other interested can look at the icon in the church. From there, nobody expelled, regardless of belief, if a person is himself a human is.

[Meister]

sss, iosif, you say all right, but whether the church will go out to give it the normal conditions? I sincerely still where she weighs, most importantly, to make it as much as possible preserved. And because the church will advocate for the postulate of "self maintained", and in him, as I said, I do not believe it!

[Glasha]

Сообщение от sss

From the standpoint of historical justice, because the icon - not a picture - place her in the temple. Why stay there, it ceases to be the property of the country - it is not clear in principle.

In my opinion, it here on this did not come. What is the property of Russia, is acknowledged by all.
It was a matter of where and who better to keep it, and here is the main divide between believers and nonbelievers.

I agree, and on the tenth circle in this topic go, if there is any effective response.