Question on sales prices of paintings

[dedulya37]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

it is difficult to count.

This is what it turns out, gentlemen?
Thirty years ago, I too, copyright repetition Kuindzhi "Night on the Dnieper, saw?
It was in the Ministry of Education in the receiving Minister. When asked where the picture secretary confidently replied that it is original. I remember, then laughed to himself: "we know these originals" ...

[Кирилл Сызранский]

dedulya37, would not be surprised that, podlinik.
The first (in time, 1880.) Painting in Russian, in GTG-repeat version, 1882.
And yet (dating to 1882 m) in Astrakhan, Simferopole, in Kiev. And yet there are scaled-down versions.
Everywhere it is written: "Many times repeated and varied by the author."

[dedulya37]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

was repeatedly varied and author. "

Wonder. Classroom work! It seems to the author himself was very fond of. Artists, too, understand what masterpieces emerge from under their hand.
I also really like this "black box" with the moon, much more better known. : p

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от dedulya37

It seems to the author himself was very fond of.

So after another and asked to repeat!
And who? Imperatoskaya family often for the museum, which we now know as the GRM. Or Tretyakov. How not to repeat?

[artcol]

Сообщение от passers-116395

artcol, you say "Buy from living artists or their heirs have, but this is not a panacea. I know a once-respected Moscow artist very old age, which in recent years baluetsya that creates "the author repeats" its the same things 40-60's. Who had long since sold, and sells them as old. The problem is that my hands and eyes were not what they were fifty years ago, and his fresh работки quite weak. It is surprising that some professionals do not see this, and similar crafts appear fresh, even in some auction catalogs.
However, when I once told him their outrage about this, he said, "The artist has the moral right of the author's repetition, but how to date it - it's his (the artist) a private matter." As you are such a passage?

I think this primary is not a problem of dating, and the problem of quality of work. We must not forget that the artist - is a free creative personality, engaged in free creative work. And no he did not decree. And the rest - just a derivative of it.
Furthermore. Normal if the artist agrees to the author's repetition, it always tries to make it better, develop, what is, and bring new, that is seen after some time after writing the work. If an artist is moonlight in any of your work (either repeat or original) - it is not an artist, as well, craftsman, a painter.

Shl And the artist in general is lying to himself - in this case we additionally have more problems and moral-personal plan. But in any case, do not judge and be not judged. Man is weak.

Added a 42-minute

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

So in fact more and asked to repeat!
And who? Imperatoskaya family often for the museum, which we now know as the GRM. Or Tretyakov. How not to repeat?

I think all the artists repeat their successful work. And this is normal.

[Прохожий]

artcol, in the sense in which I raised the issue, just the primary problem of dating. I have already mentioned that the artist offers to buy is not "the author's repeated," and the original old job. That is what allows me vychkazyvat accusations against him.
I do not think that I have a moral (or what else) the right to condemn the painter who repeats the good work, but I do not do so. I condemn the man who is trying to deceive me, as a buyer; cheating gallery owners (not just in the Art-Union, glimpses of his "as if the old" work). As a result, the deadline would be just the dealer, who believed such an artist.

[artcol]

Сообщение от passers-117605

artcol, in the sense in which I raised the issue, just the primary problem of dating. I have already mentioned that the artist offers to buy is not "the author's repeated," and the original old job. That is what allows me vychkazyvat accusations against him.
I do not think that I have a moral (or what else) the right to condemn the painter who repeats the good work, but I do not do so. I condemn the man who is trying to deceive me, as a buyer; cheating gallery owners (not just in the Art-Union, glimpses of his "as if the old" work). As a result, the deadline would be just the dealer, who believed such an artist.

You as dealer are looking at these things. There margin on aging, the age of, let's call it so. And if the emphasis on the it - then yes, wrong turns, deception. Sell as the old with the appropriate mark-up, and it was written yesterday. Ie cheat - not good. And if this is a moment off from the pricing, then what's the difference - it was written yesterday or a long time ago? Main: work - a weak copy of the previous success or development of the theme, moving forward in accordance with the accumulated professor-creative. luggage.
This is an eternal problem: If youth knew, and old age could. But old age - mb and maturity, then it takes a different turn

I will redeem the work of some contemporary artists directly from the studio. For your collection. But the proposals are received, sometimes alluring, and refuse to sell stupid. And then I go to the artist and ask the author to repeat. Sometimes the repetition does not take away all at once, had several times come and discuss with the nuances of the new art work. When asked'm taking - what to leave? If you said - "New" - it means everything is OK. If the old - this has never been more: D As a result, everyone is happy - the artist, the buyer and J.

That sob-but that's all. In general, I wholly on the side of the artist. But it is the artist - not a member of a drooping regalia: D
And what an artist I can only sympathize. Without going into nuances. Sincerely.

[Евгений]

Сообщение от passers 117605

I condemn the man who is trying to deceive me, as a buyer; cheating gallery owners (not just in the Art-Union, glimpses of his "as if the old" work). As a result, the deadline would be just the dealer, who believed this artist

Fully agree with you ....( artist can hardly be called a rogue), if this is indeed true (he signed a new employment-1946godom) for the honored artist is not solid, but perhaps it is about this work "Danilovsky market," he not know, perhaps someone else has signed.
Repetitions, variants of good works, of course you can do, but the dating of the picture should be at the time of manufacturing work, in other cases, a scam or a fake ...

[artcol]

Сообщение от Eugene

Completely agree with you .. the artist can hardly be called a rogue ..

Eugene, and whom we can call it? What had he done, what a sin he took? The public needs a year, instead of painting and the artist himself - here you are, hawala. Compassion he deserves mb, and you rascal.

Сообщение от Eugene

Again, the options of good works, of course you can do ...

Thank milostlivo allowed that ...

Сообщение от Eugene

... a scam or a fake ...

Eugene, that means a fake? He himself is that it spoofs? : D
Will be years - and it will not matter what that year - correct or not. This is only a dealer interested to sell more expensive. But the dealer - he was out and the dealer, but not goof off the street.

[Евгений]

Сообщение от artcol

and it will not matter what that year - correct or not

you do not care, but many collectors it is important ..