Margin

[Pavel]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy

http://www.gelos.ru/about/index.shtml
"Gelos" - the only permanently functioning auction house in Russia, a professional organization engaged in auction. Annually, more than 120, both general and thematic auctions, which sold more than 50,000 antiques of different levels.

And if the object is not for sale? How is the starting price? Where is announcing the starting price? There are still many questions that do not occur to these auctions. Rather, it is to by.

Added after 12 minutes

Сообщение от curious

And how close to "export abroad" worth "Taxation"? As the export is taxed? And that this was "other, away, away?

Added after 3 minutes
Quote:
Posted by Curious
On the margin.
A margin is the difference between purchase price and the purchase price, of this difference depends on profit.
Message 6 of Cyril Syzran.

«margin», - the term used in Russia only (exclusively) for financial rather than commercial activity. To refute my argument should not flood, it is necessary and sufficient to give the term applied to trading activities of the current RF legislation (including subordinate legislation).

Before you throw stones at art dealers on the value determined by the difference between their bid and ask prices, it would be nice to calculate the cost of the canvas, stretcher frames, paints, solvents and brushes (used in and for the production of an artist selling his paintings) with price sale of the picture itself. This price difference is expressed in the order (1h10n) times greater than that of art dealer. As is true for a similar case Pushkin wrote: "When in Rome ... you see the straw in his - no one sees and logs.
In accordance with the Civil Code selling price is determined by the parties to the contract. No artist has agreed with any of the art dealers (buyers) the price for his painting - dries it as a personal herbarium. Not agreed on the art-dealer sales price of the painting to someone from the buyers - will be dry this herbarium independently. And since the art-dealer bread seems so sweet, that cheeks cramped and saliva flowed, then - the flag in his hands. But first I must buy a little piece of 50 000 green and sell it for 12,000 rubles. And so on, until lyumpenovskaya ideology does not fly out of my head. Completely and forever.

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The assertion that profit trade organization depends on the difference between buy and sell prices, reflects confusion inherent to people outside the business topics.
Under current tax laws of Russia, profits are the difference between earned income and expenditures, and, after taxes and fees. The result is that there is no direct causal link between profit and price difference between buying and selling goods.

With regards to the first part of the post Cyril Syzran, it should be noted dishonesty citation unseemly for such a specialist level, and even more unfounded attribution to me of their grammatical errors. The original question was about the existing problems of art in Russia and in a different way:
« Another question - the difference in the price level with the world that exists in our country to this day. Problems with the export of serious things abroad, taxation and so on, away, away.
I write "other" because you (judging by the theme), these problems are unknown ».
Problems are many and they are known experts in sales. While not the place nor the time to discuss them in this forum - this requires a separate topic.
The current tax system has led to a natural reaction. Art dealers are trying to "no light" transactions, artists are satisfied.
How many artists make an annual declaration and pay the state to settle their outstanding amount of tax on income? I do not know these, but you know them?
The discussion topics emerged from the old virtual Shishkin.
I propose to consider the specific situation.
I have a subscription work of one of Avercamp.
I can burn it (and me for such barbarism nothing will), but I can not dispose of it. Forced to set up conditions inequality Russian prices on the world created by a ban on the export of works over 50 years. So who is the owner of my paintings: I or the State? According to the Constitution of Russia - I, by law has the right to dispose the state (officials).
Conclusion art criticism examination (after stories with Petrov) knowingly (to get acquainted with my painting - just the mention of the author's surname) is known - a copy. But a copy can not take.
Acknowledge my subscription work as the original did not, because its very existence refutes the existing system of attribution of paintings Avercamp.
I rode in the infamous Gelos that for my money order the shooting in the ultraviolet and infrared light, but examination of soil and paint. They refused - they said, spend only on work delivered for sale.
But, I do not mind virtual survivor old woman who had nothing to eat, to sell for such ridiculous prices.
Existing Conditions collectors (collectors) do not "shine" their treasures - do not expose them to review the public and professionals. The threat of expropriation in the country has not disappeared.
It is easy to guess who benefit from such a situation.

Who can tell me the specific place where you can hold technical expertise without art?

In these art dealers nobody throws and quite the contrary. As for the canvas and paint do you say cool, but it does not make the picture dealers and artists, and dealers are dealers ie intermediaries and exist only in our country. Throughout the world of the artists are bought by tender or contract, then the merchant sells them to its customers or the auction and receives the difference from this expiring. Also, as a collector by means of his talent was able to select masterpieces, or an artist to create. Everyone has his own work. If this is done in secret or closed-high prices will not.
This is now happening and Unas. Ptomu and the price difference with the West.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

[Pavel]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy

In the process of evaluation and acceptance of items for auction.


In the catalog of the auction.

Posted by 39 minutes

You are not satisfied.

Based on what?
Where can I get it and where the auctions are held? Where fixed price? etc.
I do not need just to please answer all questions and then it will be understood the difference. There is world experience and make comparisons, and can because of this difference, such a price difference?

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Pavel

Where can I get it and where the auctions are held?

Auctions are held in the building of an auction house in the 1-m Botkin traveling at number 2 /6 in Moscow. Ibid Peret auction can be for 50 rubles. (This was long ago there was not) a printout of the lots and prices. Catalogues of all there is on the site Gelos. You are a strange, Pavel. Year sing hymns here in Paris Drouot auction, and about a Moscow Gelos do not know. Game sort of ...

Сообщение от Pavel

There is world experience and make comparisons, and may be due to this difference, such a price difference?

What's more, the difference in prices? You have something in Moscow do not know.
As you start to judge-ryadit-teach??

[Pavel]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy

Auctions are held in the building of an auction house in the 1-m Botkin traveling at number 2 /6 in Moscow. Ibid before the auction can be over 50 rubles. (This was long ago there was not) buy at the reception a printout of the lots and prices. Catalogues of all there is on the site Gelos. You are a strange, Pavel. Year sing hymns here in Paris Drouot auction, and about a Moscow Gelos do not know. Game sort of ...


What's more, the difference in prices? You have something in Moscow do not know.
As you start to judge-ryadit-teach ???

I know where Gelos and I know that he is for all its existence has not had any impact on trade and prices, while Drouot is the world price and there's not afraid to sell a very valuable thing, and Gelos I did not hear about it. We have a lot of things but it does not work and I said why.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

[Pavel]

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy

You all know everything ... <!--~ A ~-->

 Artist mozhetstat only one who will enrich your mind with knowledge of all the wealth created by mankind in the arts of painting .
Your knowledge Kirill, alas, rather superficial and I do not want to offend you, but in practice you know only part of the antiques and should be as Vollard and Shchukin have intuition that comes through in-depth knowledge. Then would not need me to Explain you the simple things about Dryuo and catalogs Akun and Meyer, and Gelos.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Pavel

and must be as Vollard or Shchukin have intuition ...

... And buy the works of contemporary artists in Moscow? You, for example?
No, no, excuse me, I'm up to 200 years did not live to see it and even to 100, too.
How I can do "in terms of antiquities," rather be ...

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Сообщение от Pavel

then would not need me Explain you the simple things about Dryuo and catalogs Akun and Mayer, and Gelos.

Yes, you too naobyasnyali-bellies have all hurt from laughing. Finish really entertain the audience. Enough.

[Любознательный]

Сообщение от Pavel

In these art dealers nobody throws and quite the contrary. As for the canvas and paint do you say cool, but it does not make the picture dealers and artists, and dealers are dealers ie intermediaries and exist only in our country. Throughout the world of the artists are bought by tender or contract, then the merchant sells them to its customers or the auction and receives the difference from this expiring. Also, as a collector by means of his talent was able to select masterpieces, or an artist to create. Everyone has his own work. If this is done in secret or closed-high prices will not.
This is now happening and Unas. Ptomu and the price difference with the West.

Present your quote is not directed to you, and some artists, only respect (only) their work and not worth nothing puts the work of other participants of the art process. Therefore, education cost picture, I intentionally brought to the point of absurdity - for more dohozhchivogo understanding. And no more.
I do not agree with you that the difference between our domestic and world prices due to the policy of intermediaries in the trade patterns between the artist and the end user (sorry for the trade jargon).
The problem, in my opinion, much deeper and lies in state policy, enshrined by law. I'm talking about the removal of serious films over 50 years. This establishes a one-way traffic. Since their main income (yet) our dealers receive from sales of precisely these works, they (by law) converted into a monopoly with all the influent and consequences ..
Difficulties with the export of Russia have identified the lack of mass foreign dealers, agents also our dealers crowded West.
That situation suits those who have a significant amount of bank notes to hide them into works of art, commercial layer, as well as partially and collectors (collectors). Since the existing conditions in the domestic market can still catch the cheap pearl.
However, in contrast to the fat cats, this collectors (in the absence crazy income) must be able to sort the existing works - selling has become unnecessary. Without this process, collectibles (like passion) is doomed to extinction.
Therefore, continuing clandestine implementation processes, as it was in sovetstvie times. None of the collectors of such an order does not like - but what to do?
Need a different scheme of realization of works of art and it is in the air. Evidence that is, and your theme, in which I participated. My view is not zamylen - I'm 20 years old engaged in trading business and I cut the eyes orders arising in the 90 years and not changed to this day.
I am now at a crossroads - my business and I'm tired of looking for a new niche.
That is why I am on this forum - we want to synchronize their watches and to estimate the possibility of returning to the art.

Thus, a fundamental change in the order of implementation depends on the legislative framework, and not from the corporate interests of dealers.
Although there are some options.

[Fantozzi]

I beg your pardon for that meddling. I assure everyone that the West (in the old world) all the same thing that we have. Dealer price depends only on the appearance of the buyer (if decent looks, and even more Russian or Arabic, then prplyusovvyvaetsya immediately 100%). The auction is the same - there is always the possibility to dissolve the alleged buyer on the phone.
  "In our city there are no decent people. There is one, and from prokuor" (Nikolai Gogol)