Vladimir Ovcharenko of the market of contemporary art in Russia

[Peter]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Hudoznik rabotaet vo-pervyh, chto by sebia prokormit ', esli on professional. Muzei i vechnost 'prihodiat pozze. I, kak my znaem, daleko ne ko vsem

The artist wrote because it can not pisat.Eto his way of knowledge, the picture-method and the object of his prlozheniya sil.Konechnaya goal of artist comprehension garmonii.Konechnaya goal-wall paintings, the museum or chastnaya.Vozmozhny intermediate stages of course.

[Posav]

Сообщение от Peter

Artist wrote because it can not pisat.Eto his path of knowledge, the picture-method and the object of his prlozheniya sil.Konechnaya goal of artist comprehension garmonii.Konechnaya goal-wall paintings, the museum or chastnaya.Vozmozhny intermediate stages of the course.

It is the right word, but I would add that not a wall of the museum, but in modern conditions is now more important than the presence, life paintings in the media space.

[Peter]

Сообщение от Posav

very true, but I would add that not a wall of the museum, but in modern conditions is now more important than the presence, life paintings in media space.

In the media space live ghosts pictures (unfortunately).

[AlexanderG]

Сообщение от Peter

Artist wrote because it can not not write.

Sovershenno ne soglasen s etim utverzdeniem. Eto lirika, eto ne ob'ektivnaia real'nost '.

This is his way of knowledge, the picture-method and the object prlozheniya its forces.

Chuzoi put 'nikomu ne nuzen.

The ultimate goal of artist-grasp of harmony.

A eto iz serii voprosov o smysle zizni.

The ultimate goal of a wall-paintings, museum or chastnaya.Vozmozhny milestones course.

Ne vidite zdes' protivorechiia?

Ne mozet ne pisat ', no s konechnoi tsel'iu muzei, kollektsiia? Ha-ha!

[LCR]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

A esli rabotaiut dlia muzeev, to pust 'ih muzei ih soderzat, a zarplatu vydadut v vechnosti

Artists, unlike, say, a railroad, or long-distance truck drivers, or employees of the Ministry of Finance, teachers, nurses, scavengers do not like strikes, so they have added or increased salary pension. They, unlike workers, do not delay for a few days of top management of the plant where he worked to avoid layoffs (I'm talking about Western Europe). But the taxes they pay, like all other citizens - and generally, no, not all: there are a number of citizens who do not pay taxes - international functionaries, for example.

The artist, unlike banks or insurance companies (many payments can not be carried in cash, many insurance kotnrakty are required), has been unable to get anyone to buy his work, the customer always does so solely at their request.

Galleries, artists paying regular monthly maintenance, maybe 1%, if not less. On what kind of salary you say?

Galleries do not feed the artists. Rather, it is fed by the artists gallery. Personally I have never heard of an artist whose gallery has a very young and immediately placed her on a salary. Before the fall in the gallery - if he was lucky - the artist is already a decent segment of its path, and he does it all alone. And if at some stage some sort of gallery invites him to cooperate, then she sees the possibility of obtaining this benefit. This is perfectly normal, but be proud of here, too, nothing gallerist.

No doubt, the artist - real - does not work in order to feed themselves. No doubt, he is working for themselves, peers and for eternity.

"Art is paving another path that leads to eternal life" - wrote Franz Marc - lucky me with the quote, just cook it on a plot

And another quote: "Inspiration is not for sale, but you can sell a manuscript, you know?

[AlexanderG]

A est 'eschio odna tsitata: Ne sotvori sebe kumira !

A davaite podumaem, esli predlozit 'hudoznikam, skazem, $ 250,000 do kontsa zizni za to, chto by oni voobsche bol'she ne krasili, skol'ko iz nih soglasiatsia na eto? Hudoznikov, kotorye poluchaiut bol'she, ne uchityvaem, ih ochen 'malo.

A esli $ 500,000? Dumaiu ostanetsia sovsem nebol'shaia gruppa.
Eto ia k tomu, chto ne nado idealizirovat 'hudoznikov, iz obschego chisla rabotaiuschih segodni, ne mogut ne pisat' edinitsy.

Added after 29 minutes
Eto tak ze otnositsia k voprosu o tom, kogo schitat 'hudoznikom.

Added after 32 minutes

Сообщение от LCR

No doubt, the artist - real - does not work in order to feed themselves. No doubt, he is working for themselves, peers and for eternity.

Kogda my govorim o rynke, eti kategorii ne rabotaiut.

Eschi v samom nachale diskussii, ia predlagal razdelit 'estetiku, chuvstva i rynochnye otnosheniia.

Added after 53 minutes

Сообщение от LCR

Galleries do not feed the artists. Rather, it is fed by the artists gallery.

A eto, kak spor o iaitsah i kuritsah

[LCR]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

A est 'eschio odna tsitata: Ne sotvori sebe kumira!

Okay, then so: Caesar - Caesar and God - God. OK?

Сообщение от AlexanderG

A davaite podumaem, esli predlozit 'hudoznikam, skazem, $ 250,000 do kontsa zizni za to, chto by oni voobsche bol'she ne krasili, skol'ko iz nih soglasiatsia na eto? Hudoznikov, kotorye poluchaiut bol'she, ne uchityvaem, ih ochen 'malo.

A esli $ 500,000? Dumaiu ostanetsia sovsem nebol'shaia gruppa.
Eto ia k tomu, chto ne nado idealizirovat 'hudoznikov, iz obschego chisla rabotaiuschih segodni, ne mogut ne pisat' edinitsy.

I can list you many, many artists, who would it never went - when you want, you just whistle

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Kogda my govorim o rynke, eti kategorii ne rabotaiut.

Work. Because it is the paintings of such artists and appear in museums, they are more expensive than others and bring gallerist maximum profit.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

A eto, kak spor o iaitsah i kuritsah

No. First - produce, then - the seller.

[AlexanderG]

Сообщение от LCR

Okay, then so: Caesar - Caesar and God - God. OK?

Sovershenno soglasen, imenno eto ia pytaius' donesti uze dolgoe vremia.


I can list you many, many artists, who would it never went - when you want, you just whistle

Mnogo v kakom smysle? Esli k obschemu kolichestvu ofitsial'no zaregistrirovannyh hudoznikov, to somnevaius ', a esli bol'she trioh, to mozet byt'.



Work. Because it is the paintings of such artists and appear in museums, they are more expensive than others and bring gallerist maximum profit.

Ves'ma sporno. Muzeinaia kartina iz'iata iz oborota i nichego, nikomu (v finansovom smysle) ne prinosit.



No. First - produce, then - the seller.

V sovremennyh rynochnyh otnosheniiah eto ne sovsem tak. Pomnite primer s firmoi Nike? Na pervom meste marketing.

Added after 8 minutes
PS Zdorovo, vse eschio spiat, a my s vami vediom diskussiiu

[artcol]

Сообщение от LCR

No. First - produce, then - the seller.

Still, perhaps, ask first ... There is an order - a job. Over time, the artist became more free, a relatively independent, but its development was due to painting customers. This is a historical fact.
Certainly, there are exceptions, particularly in Russia, but in my opinion - only thanks to the Council of Deputies. Personally acquainted with the artist, the first does not sell his works. The only case of the sale was caused by his wife's illness and the need to improve the living conditions (and even then, not sold, and changed some of their work at the apartment, all the work gone in one hand).
You do not necessarily dB business and paid for in cash. He ideological mb (Payable polit.sily support), environment (society) (paid attention and status), etc.

[AlexanderG]

Сообщение от artcol

Still, perhaps, ask first ...

Vy popali v desiatku! Bytuiuschee vyrazenie: spros rozdaet predlozenie, v nastoiaschee vremia rabotaet ne tak, kak 100-200 let nazad.

Kak pokupatel 'mozet sprosit' o tovare, kotoryi on ne znaet? Vot zdes 'rol' marketinga absoliutna. Nado predstavit 'tovar pokupateliu, i razvit' rynok. V segodniashnem izobilii vsego, eto zadacha sloznaia.

Tak is kartinami - esli nikto ne znaet o suschestvovanii dannogo hudoznika, spros na ego kartiny=0.

Poetomu tovar otstupaet na zadnii plan, a informatsionnye sluzby zanimaiut dominantnuiu pozitsiiu.

Kstati, my medlenno peremeschaemsia v postindustrial'noe prostranstvo, tam eschio ne vsio opredeleno.