Abstract forever

[Игорь Гурьев]

In the Vienna Museum of Art History is velaskesovsky portrait of Infanta Margarita .

When approaching this dress very closely , you see such an expression of strokes , a brilliant symphony of colors that the head spin .
Waste - a dress girl .
Miracle , a miracle !

That's what a real " abstraction " !

And how to take shape , texture .
From this pattern generally go anywhere you do not want there , in Vienna ...

[iside]

Сообщение от LCR

I'll bet that a sympathetic smile at fans of Michelangelo, Caravaggio, Rembrandt, Rubens will not de Stael and Rothko, but rather Alma Tadema.

Well, one follower of Michelangelo and Caravaggio, I asked about Alma Tadema and Preraffaelitov, and received a negative response - sympathetic smile does not cause, sympathy, yes. Tomorrow I have a meeting with two man, well versed in the art, therefore, continue to the survey.

Сообщение от LCR; 1563041"

The first would have gone to the expense of just this very Tadema + all usually assimilated to her Pre-Raphaelite (and so they would not be bored, and priisovokupim Nazareytsev) ...
That is in line for immortality de Stael will not in the tail, but rather in the first, say, twenty - I believe quite a place of honor, no?

Dear Liana, I really appreciate and respect your opinion, I am always very interesting to study it. But how can you argue about taste? I'm here, for example, do not understand golf, can hardly provide charm of mountaineering, and someone does not like horse riding, swimming and gym.

Preraffaelity - beautiful. Now just exhibition in Rome at the National Gallery of Modern Art through June 12 they dedicated.

I ask Art-lover a not to be angry with me for the care of abstract art.

[LCR]

Сообщение от iside

But how can you argue about taste ?

Funny you the right word ! What we do here at this forum for nearly 3 years, do not argue about taste ?

Prefer substantive painting non-objective or non-objective subject matter - a matter of taste .
Prefer Pre-Raphaelites , I do not know , say , Tintoretto , Daumier or de Stael - a matter of taste ( awful , of course , because I have these Pre-Raphaelites can not stand ) .
Prefer the same Tintoretto , Daumier de Stael , or the Pre-Raphaelites - also a matter of taste ( well , of course , because it is mine) .

[iside]

Сообщение от LCR; 1563321"

What are we doing here at this forum for nearly 3 years, do not argue about taste?

Prefer substantive painting non-objective or non-objective subject matter - a matter of taste ... also a matter of taste (well, of course, because this is my)

This is not a dispute about taste, it's about that, when based on personal taste, and not the views of the overwhelming majority, attempt to reset priorities and values ​​in a global context, and that from this already ridiculous to me. "But it's not such a rare phenomenon.

Lord, yes, of course, your personal taste is always better than someone else's "A couple of months ago I spoke with one kuratorshoy and artkritikom from New York, so here is her taste in video art and installations - all the rest of what is now she calls a pathetic anachronism and decor. And I confess that the logic in her words there. Such a powerful aunt, wrote articles and lectured even. And imagine that she said she saw the work of those young people who represent you in the forum? And me as an outsider how to determine who tastes better? And I did not really need, because I have my own

I honestly do not remember, that once claimed to prefer a substantive non-objective painting, or vice versa. I am much interested. Even the work of Joseph Kozuta and Ai Veyveya

As for abstraction, in my opinion, there are very few names worthy to discuss and they are all gone now of course Rothko and de Stael among them. But trying to put them up a notch Michelangelo, Caravaggio, etc. - Is not serious.

[LCR]

Сообщение от iside

This is not a dispute about taste, it's about that, when based on personal taste, and not the views of the overwhelming majority, attempt to reset priorities and values ​​in a global context, and that from this already ridiculous to me.

So. To begin with, each guided by his personal taste for drawing up a certain hierarchy of artistic values. The only question is, whether it is able to impose your own taste - you know, to reassess the role of, say, a Caravaggio in art history, not a positive or negative opinion about him janitor Ivanov. If that makes an art of world renown, the chances of such a review is more, all agree?
Two observations: First, please do not consider any contempt for the average janitor vysheozachennomu - after all, was the janitor named Andrei Platonov - he swept the courtyard of the Literary Institute. Bitter.
Secondly, the role of Caravaggio's really been revised - cf. with the way it was estimated up to 60-70-ies.

Now further: what is this such an overwhelming majority? When the vast majority ask voopros, whether it likes Carpaccio, it appears that the vast majority simply do not have: more than half the value beef carpaccio, and half prefer to fish. As for Donatello, here, yes, the vast majority agree that this is a very serious travel agency

But seriously - it is important here is that this personal taste nurtured, developed. Eye of the trains, is enriched constant contact with these same values ​​- in fact if I say that for attribution or authenticity of a work of art should be an expert, everyone will agree with my statement. So why is the unprepared viewer tastes you put on a level with the taste of human, from morning to evening consider, analyze different pictures?

Сообщение от iside; 1563531"

My God, yes, of course, your personal taste is always better than a strange couple of months ago I talked with one kuratorshoy and artkritikom from New York, so here is her taste in video art and installations - all the rest what is it now calls the pathetic anachronism and decor. And I confess that the logic in her words there. Such a powerful aunt, wrote articles and lectured even. And imagine that she said she saw the work of those young people who represent you in the forum? And me as an outsider how to determine who tastes better? And I did not really need, because I have my own.

As for abstraction, in my opinion, there are very few names worthy to discuss and they are all gone now of course Rothko and de Stael among them. But trying to put them up a notch Michelangelo, Caravaggio, etc. - Is not serious.

Why is it so peremptorily? Of course, I'm hard to quote you the names of worthy to discuss the abstract artists of the future, we should wait a bit
If it is I'm trying to put them - abstract - a notch Michelangelo and Caravaggio (which I, for that matter, has managed to avoid) - I admit that this is not serious (although in general, have yet to see). And if it makes your powerful aunt from New York? Huh?

And then let's see, what you may be theoretically interesting to determine whose tastes better. Let's say you decide to invest in art. Of course, you can come out of his own taste. Can and listen to this aunt articles. Can you and me. With regard to the effectiveness of New York's aunt - can not say anything because of complete lack of information. With respect to their own projections - I them, in general, satisfied with: artists, whom I advised to invest, have risen in price, as I have seen yet again the day before yesterday, in Maastricht. Relative to other artists I predupezhdala that the price of their work will go down - and it happened.
Here is such a specific tsimes

P.S. Must nevertheless say that in their attempts to analyze the market and the evolution of prices I am motivated not my personal taste, well, or not only.

[iside]

Сообщение от LCR

So. To begin with, each guided by his personal taste for drawing up a certain hierarchy of artistic values. The only question is, whether it is able to impose your own taste - you know, to reassess the role of, say, a Caravaggio in art history

Somehow I feel ashamed to admit that I understand what is at stake

Сообщение от LCR

Now further: what is that such an overwhelming majority?

Сообщение от LCR; 1563681"

So why is the unprepared viewer tastes you put on a level with the taste of human, from morning to evening consider, analyze different pictures?

I do not remember that I compared the level of peer review professionals and viewers. Here are the exact phrase.

Сообщение от iside

If for a moment to present a situation where lovers and connoisseurs of art, no matter what ages, areas, countries and the authors proposed to take as a gift now and make a choice between Rembrandt or De Stael, then I think preference of the overwhelming majority is not difficult to predict.

Сообщение от LCR

If I try to put them - abstract - a notch Michelangelo and Caravaggio (which I, for that matter, has managed to avoid) - I admit that this is not serious (although in general, have yet to see). And if it makes your powerful aunt from New York? A?

She specializes in Contemporary and we talked only about what is now the last 10 -15 -20 years. Her opinion about Caravaggio and Michelangelo, I do not know and it's not interesting to me - it's like dentista asking for kidney stones - why?

Сообщение от LCR

You have decided to invest in art. Of course, you can come out of his own taste. Can and listen to this aunt articles. Can you and me.

But it's interesting. All the same I have economic education and quite a bit, but about investing, I vaguely heard. "And even worked (although not in art). And even successful. I can say that very well. And in this context would add that just a taste (your own or someone else's) for investment is a very weak foundation. 50x50, and even less. When added to the taste tsifirki - have fun, and when tsifirki become analytical, plus the scent - that is, I can think of the word investment.

Quite simply, I suspect that you, Liana, and she can play the role of investment professionals in the art, but specialize in different epochs. I hope that you are applying on the basis of only their own taste to make predictions for all ages, continents, genres, styles, and authors? But even if so, can only truly happy for this level of knowledge that is more capital in our time and experience the fun of the fact that there are people on this forum.

I note that if I started to practice investing in art, it is only and only in the Contemporary Middle East, not so much because of taste preferences, as well as because of the financial component: the level of Maastricht there is no money, and if they were I would have chosen other places investment, who know better, and the Middle East because ... and here is already beginning my analysis, my tsifirki and my nose

[Игорь Гурьев]

The main problem of the so-called " abstract art "and its authors - this lack of understanding . that picture , the fact that the shows - it all tenth .
I do not care that Velazquez wrote : men at the table , naked aunt or the Infanta Margarita .
Important for me , as he wrote that he brought in the view of the world , on subjects on how you can pass the light .

The main task of painting , wrote Clive Stipplz Lewis - a transfer of light .
The light only comes on the same subjects .
Light without the objects are not visible .
When he goes to the Sun to the Earth , it is invisible , right?

Thus , the failure of abstract painting is quite obvious .
This is the same mistake the 20 th century , as Communism or Nazism , only to harm her significantly less , frankly .

[SAH]

Сообщение от Guriev , Igor ; 1563981 "

The main task of painting , wrote Clive Stipplz Lewis - a transfer of light .
The light only comes on the same subjects .
Light without the objects are not visible .
When he goes to the Sun to the Earth , it is invisible , right?

Thus , the failure of abstract painting is quite obvious .

It is not clear evidence of insolvency abstre . Items are only visible decoration , while there is the invisible world - pointless , spiritual . And it is no less real , as has been suggested that more . As for light , he , too, is different , there is a light - Tabor , this is not the sun.

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от SAH

It is not clear evidence of insolvency abstre. Items are only visible decoration, while there is the invisible world - pointless, spiritual. And he did not menne real, and it was felt that more.

Once again, comrade. MAR.
Light may be the only subjects.
Rather, the objects can be in painting only through the light.

Objects do not exist without light, without light items, too.

Important task of painting - to give a hint to the divine light that we see when we meet with the Lord.

As important task of music - to give a faint hint of the music of spheres that has there.

What is the important task of an abstract painting?
Amuse raskidonom smear?
So this - and much more interesting! - Raskidona and Velazquez with Cezanne indefinitely.

But Velazquez and Cezanne, in addition to their "abstractions", gave us his view of the world, his way of peace, his model of the world, their attitude to him than enriched, so to speak.

What can we give such an abstract painting, but completely arbitrary and made without any legal combination of strokes?

In painting, Cezanne and Velazquez is a mystery, an enigma. But there is clarity.
And this harmony.

Abstract painting is intended to "mystique." Maybe she is mysterious, but there is nothing to solve.

At best, this decorative stain on the wall, like de Stael.
At worst - bad cut colored tagliatelle and spaghetti like Kandinsky.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от Guriev, Igor

The main task of painting, wrote Clive Stipplz Lewis - a transfer of light.

Well, that's quite ridiculous statement.

I would not recommend to build some of construing to put it mildly, controversial thoughts.