Abstract forever

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от Tiutchev

Well, what could not ? Kandinsky was able to draw !

In your opinion - he could draw .
But , say , comrades Borisov - Musatov Guriev and Igor believed and believe that no , could not draw Comrade Vasily Kandinsky .

The fact that you led , does not indicate a brilliant Comrade . Kandinsky as a painter.

[I-V]

Сообщение от Guriev, Igor

The fact that you led, does not indicate a brilliant Comrade.
Kandinsky as a draftsman.

Igor Sasha, well, as well as a painter?

[iside]

Сообщение от Art-lover; 1554611"

once and I looked at the pointless extravagances as quackery or amusing nonsense. Then I did not understand the arts. Many years passed, until I just saw, but realized that the abstract - it is quackery or amusing nonsense.
For some, quite a few exceptions. That's because of them and there is this theme.

Art-lover, catching at his word. In the sense that I do not understand the arts. "I want to consult about the terminology. I'm actually a big fan of abstract art, I know that my statement may seem strange, so I hasten to explain: in Contemporary arte I like the abstraction provided is not a traditional form of painting, and in the form of art objects. That's about in such a way as in the pictures.

And now the question. How the term can designate these works? Abstract art, art at the junction with the design, abstraction from a conceptual, geometric abstraction? After reading quite a lot on this topic, oddly enough I have not met one the exact name, but many variations, which in my opinion sometimes quite erroneously convey meaning. Very interesting to know the opinion of the distinguished Art-lovera

[Art-lover]

One hundred and fifty messages in topic - a hefty sum reason subtotals.
To a greater or lesser extent, questions were raised:

- The nature and definition of AI.
- The subject and content of the AI: how and what it represents? Phenomenology of the AI.
- Taxonomy of abstraction: types, forms, directions. Ideal types and their compliance history. AI and avant-garde.
- Criteria for quality in AI: what is good what is bad.

(AI here - not art-Investment and abstract art .))

"Watersheds of Thought" in the debate on these issues outlined clearly enough, and it gives us guidance, which paid twice as much attention in the future. That up to a positive outcome, then virtually none of the identified problems, we have not reached absolute clarity.

Because we definitely do not want to cook in its own juice, we can not worry about repercussions of the dramatic events of the parallel worlds. Epic explain Tiutchev in the subject line Plein Air for abstract for the abstract art forced to remove his hat.
And once we have it removed, then the elementary eagerly ..., sorry, the principle of economy of effort suggests that no sin to take away our headdress fraction of the fruits of intellectual labor is so weighty - to strengthen the foundation of our rickety shacks, and even - Since the question is of the essence - to use borrowed as the cornerstone.
However, the foundation - a responsible and that the structure of a sudden and blocked by the burst of seismic activity, must each of the expected based rock first try on the tooth. ))

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Given the employment of readers miss the wealth of nuances, and reduce the coverage of the "plein air" to the bare scheme: Dear Tiutchev, like a true knight of abstraction, bravely made under the banner of abstraktsionistskogo purism on two fronts. His main opponent under the guise of "abstractive series" passing the idea of ​​growing abstraction from figurative roots in an evolutionary way - in spite of its revolutionary, avant-garde nature, while another opponent - The Honourable fabosch - opportunistically diluted, the term "abstraction "not accepted into art criticism meanings. As a result of the first battles adversary retreated from the battlefield, and the second was forced to move to the sluggish positional defense.
We, the people peaceful and practical, with the lists of this glorious hope, as was said, to make their own benefit, not forgetting the necessary caution.

For a start try to rely on the definition of "term", where Tiutchev attached considerable importance. Recall: the term - the word "precisely and unambiguously designational concept and its relation to other concepts within the special sphere." "Well, everything is good, but my bad luck to correctly use the terms you need to have clear concepts, and with it something in the humanities often or bad or very bad. Some critics, however, live happily and even write research papers without the concept, benefit and his colleagues can agree about the terms. Have, however, accept the fact that there is always another group of colleagues who will take other arrangements. But this way they live, and even a good living. I am afraid that we are in a densely serried ranks of critics not to squeeze, and depend in their endeavors by their konventsionalistskih games somehow not comfortable.

Therefore, with regret aside the terms and try to live according to concepts. For, as taught by Comrade. Hegel, the concept reveals the true nature of things, a valid law of her life - and this is, you see, is much more reliable support for any construction.

Thus, under the leadership of Tiutchev, look at the thing for us the notion of "abstract art". Painted Tyutchev wheel of fortune AI looks like this:
In the early 20 th century occurred in the direction of art, presented a number of works of Kandinsky and other artists who reject the principle of imitation of external reality. Behind this trend as a result of competition of different words in the name stuck, "abstract". Throughout the 20 th century, this trend grows a lot of ideas, movements, branches, events, artifacts, and the devil-knows-what, until completely exhausted innovative fuse and therefore not dead.
Now is a nice young days for art, necrophilia, pathologists, investors and all lovers of trouble with kadavrom:

Сообщение от Tiutchev

Now, when we look at the" corpse "(in the sense that we add to this the direction that something significant will be very difficult (I will be glad if I'm wrong)), I mean abstract Art without emotion, we can more clearly understand its essence.

And here, after a meditation on a corpse, among art historians came the decisive split.
Some, like art Vilensky and abstractionist Max Bill, chose the broad highway of creeping empiricism, expanding the content and scope of the concept of AI all known innovations and perversions of abstract art, why this concept was something amorphous, with a rotten odor.
Others, like Tiutchev and Leon Degan, followed the narrow path of asceticism and virtue, and they shone the pure essence of abstract art.

We too are dreaming as soon as possible to partake entity, but in obedience to circadian rhythms, insight postpone until later.

Сообщение от iside; 1556743"

Art-lover, I catch the word. In the sense that I do not understand the arts.

iside, of course I had in mind the weakness of his understanding, not yours.
The presentation of objects you can say whatever you want, depending on the context of their origin or exposure. Correct name captures the essence and the essence of the empirically observed in the contemplation of individual objects. Essence-time context is unknown, any name correctly, which will tell you imagination.

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от IV

Igor Sasha, well, as well as a painter?

About Comrade coloring.
Kandinsky I'm not even talking.

[iside]

Сообщение от Art-lover; 1556971"

iside, of course I had in mind the weakness of his understanding, not your.

Yes, I did not confuse the fact that I am inferior to others versed in the art. I'm not a critic, I'm more on the commercial line. <!--~ 6 "-" Yes, and all things to too hard, though the fact that I'm trying to - is positive, in my opinion.

Сообщение от Art-lover

The presentation of objects you can say whatever you want, depending on the context of their origin or exposure. Correct name captures the essence and the essence of the empirically observed in the contemplation of individual objects. Essence-time context is unknown, any name correctly, which will tell you imagination.

Hmm, that is, If I understood correctly, during the presentation of such objects, it is necessary to explain the idea that underlay their creation, and without ideas, such as art objects are transformed simply into any object? Then it's closer to conceptual art than to the abstract, correct me please if I am mistaken.

PS Studies show that abstract art is not so so incomprehensible - The NY Times

[iside]

Сообщение от Art-lover

The presentation of objects you can say whatever you want , depending on the context of their origin or exposure . Correct name captures the essence and the essence of the empirically observed in the contemplation of individual objects . Essence- time context is unknown, any name correctly , which will tell you imagination .

Hmm , that is, If I understood correctly , during the presentation of such objects , it is necessary to explain the idea that underlay their creation , and without ideas , such as art objects are transformed simply into any object ? Then it's closer to conceptual art than to the abstract , correct me please if I am mistaken .

PS Studies show that abstract art is not so so incomprehensible - The NY Times

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от iside

Hmm, that is, If I understood correctly, during the presentation of such objects, it is necessary to explain the idea that underlay their creation, and without ideas, such as art objects are transformed simply into any object? Then it's closer to conceptual art than to the abstract, correct me please if I am mistaken.

How many "honey" does not speak, my mouth would not be sweeter. Therefore, even though you call a pot, but do not put in the oven "Call it conceptual, perceptual, abstract and concrete - a change from this is something for you? Increase the degree of aesthetic exaltation? If you suspect that impressed you the artifact is endowed with a deeper meaning in the system of special artistic language than the frost on the window, the syntax and semantics of this language is better to inquire from a particular artist or curator. The same cockroach will perform various arias in the exhibitions of Dadaists, Surrealists, Conceptual, entomologistov and in your kitchen. ) By the way, you answers to your questions have not tried to buy on market misunderstanding of art?

Art objects, vestimo lepy and polzitelny economy, but we are forced to disengage from them for things that are more compelling and sublime - the essence of abstract painting. Since Tiutchev urges closer look at the wording of Leon Degas, with whom he solidarity as the most adequate, and proceed:

Сообщение от Tiutchev

"An abstract painting - a painting which does not reproduce the visible external world and which is not defined by this reproduction of any of its purposes, or in their vehicles, either in its spirit"
"Abstract painting is not seeking any reproduction of the external world, in other words, painting is an abstract only in the strict sense, when the picturesque building up is not mixed with the intention to portray something of the objective world - willingly or unwillingly, consciously or not. She does not want in their vehicles to any reproduction of the external world, as the painting is abstract in the true sense only if it does not use any of the conventions and rules of language inherent in figurative painting.
And in the spirit it should not be defined in this reproduction, because it can not be figurative, not ceasing to be an abstract, may not disclose the logic of the order of seeming appearances of the external world "
Leon Degan

Immediately the question: Is a formal tool (color, composition, etc.). Abstract painter is not the same as that of his fellow-figurativista? Suppose they been operating on different fenyam, but something no universally valid rules of grammar should follow those, and others.

Delve further. Intention not to defile the angelic visions of the inner world of the gross elements of the objective world, perhaps, it is commendable (though I do not quite understand), but as a painter caulked all the cracks unconscious that undesirable elements do not seeping involuntarily and unconsciously? Chase the devil in the door, so he is back through the window ...

On this issue does not end: as already discussed, and every line and every abstract spot, and all together they cause the viewer uncensored flow of associations, contaminated echoes and reminiscences of the mortal world.

It turns out that this abstraktsionistsky purism simply can not be enforced, even if we go through the dogmatic violence over the elements of life and spirit (which, in fact, accused figurativisty). Oh, and the pathos of a Kandinsky was not coercion, and freedom ...

Sorry, but the brick Leon Degan laying the foundation we poosterezhemsya.

[Игорь Гурьев]

Сообщение от Art-lover

unless a formal tool (color, composition, etc.). Abstract painter is not the same as that of his fellow-figurativista? Suppose they been operating on different fenyam, but something no universally valid rules of grammar should follow those and others.

The analogy, I think, is very superficial.

Let me illustrate.

"I was dead tired from life,
None of it did not accept.
But I love this sinful earth,
Because some had not seen "
and

"Holes Blvd schyl, of course, have something in common.

But that's only on "Dyrbulschyle" twisted and finished, and M. has written, developed and became the greatest Russian poet of 20 century.

Why are abstract poetry has not received development?
Because the expressive possibilities of abstract words are minimal and can not be anybody to take any blow in what boundless.

I already expect kontrvoprosa about music and its alleged "abstractionism.
Melodic music - not in the abstract, the melody - specifically, all the tunes laid down in our soul, we just not know about them, and composers open them with God and the inspiration (ie, establishing communication with God).

Pictorial abstraction - BEZBLAGODATEN is a pure artistic tyranny; themselves colored spots can be, and can impress the impressionable nature, and more than abstract words, but certainly less than even an abstract (of twelve-tone) music.
Just incomparably smaller.

Twelve-tone music is appropriate as a backdrop for film or theater, but the concert twelve-tone music in the concert hall - it's nonsense, you know?

Such as abstract painting in the museum.


(Oh, not for God's sake, that I'm trying to convince you; I really like your writing).

You know, I personally find quite a mystery to even engage in solving a proposed me by others (Kandinsky and company).
And the riddle of my nature to solve more interesting than some random spots on the canvas.
Yes, they went all out ...

[iside]

Art-lover, I fear that vigorous materialism of my answers may not kill, but rammed the poetry of your statements.

Сообщение от Art-lover

Call it conceptual, perceptual, abstract and concrete - a change from this is something for you?

Personally for me, of course not, but for my business, I think so, because such objects, I propose to sell.

Сообщение от Art-lover; 1557731"

will increase the degree of aesthetic exaltation?

I have every reason to believe that well formulated ideology may affect the degree of aesthetic exaltation of the buyer that should result in buying and as a consequence of exaltation will come as I

Сообщение от Art-lover

If you suspect that impressed you the artifact is endowed with a deeper meaning in the system of special artistic language than the frost on the window, the syntax and semantics of this language is better to inquire from a particular artist or curator.

Well, me as a person with practical acumen, as was once very accurately said fabosh on their own any objects a little impressive, impressive, what opportunities with the right approach, these objects can give to me personally. Let's just say, due to geographical features, unfortunately there or likely to schatyu, curator we have here yet another beast bizarre, though demand is already there, so you have to adapt and to generate ideas and monitor their implementation, and come up with terminology and exhibit and sell. This is how all the hard

Сообщение от Art-lover

By the way, you answers to your questions have not tried to buy on the market misunderstanding of art?

Thanks for the link, did not know about this subject, to be honest, I like the text is very reminiscent of conversations about religion and about God, or rather two questions: Is there a God and which religion is the most correct one - in such conversations do not take part in the whole text, based on scholastic narcissism authors have little interest - the time sorry.