Help attribution now

[Дмитрий]

Сообщение от Vivien

I think that Dmitri is not so fundamentally authorship is Kuindzhi, he just wanted to hear the views of those who are alleged to be, to know at least something from the start in his quest. Painting without a signature - as a man without a name.

Indeed you are right, I'm trying different ways to determine the authorship of the painting. What surprises me the situation that the attribution of the painting is possible only if the signature of the artist, otherwise it nobody wants to do. I read the work of Fedorov-Davydov, who described the artist's first on the palette and characteristic strokes of the brush. He believed that, then as an artist puts the brush strokes are very individual and may be a sign of the same attribution as the person's handwriting. It turns out or if it was wrong or whether this level of expertise as it is simply not in the presence of experts from all over-the-art technology capabilities assessment is much more modest than during the Fedorov-Davydov.

[Allena]

Сообщение от Dmitry

I was surprised by the situation that the attribution of the painting is possible only if the signature of the artist, otherwise it nobody wants to do. I read the work of Fedorov-Davydov, who described the artist's first on the palette and characteristic strokes of the brush. He believed that, then as an artist puts the brush strokes are very individual and may be a sign of the same attribution as the person's handwriting. It turns out or if it was wrong or whether this level of expertise as it is simply not in the presence of experts from all over-the-art technology capabilities assessment is much more modest than during the Fedorov-Davydov.

Dmitry, I think, we should not expect that the forum you will be given a categorical conclusion about authorship. The participants - people can read and write, and nobody wants to operate on the principle of "kina not seen, but I believe ...". Photography, laid out on the forum, can not serve as grounds for a serious attribution. You can do suggestions, while the presence of clear signatures or decrypt incomprehensible very helpful, and therefore clings to look primarily for signature. As for authenticity - the same question. On photo - it is impossible, if we just did not outright bogus, equipped Marochko, birochkami and similar absurdity with braying ears, whom those present have already seen enough. Discussion at the forum - is just a preamble to the examination to the holder, in particular, to know which way to move himself, what to look for before you order the examination of the experts (and whether its general order, whether ovchinka dressing). But experts are, and the technical level of expertise is very high. Face - check.

[Amateur]

Сообщение от Dmitry

I read the work of Fedorov-Davydov, who described the artist's first on the palette and characteristic strokes of the brush. He believed that, then as an artist puts the brush strokes are very individual and may be a sign of the same attribution as the person's handwriting. It turns out or if it was wrong or whether this level of expertise as it is simply not in the presence of experts from all over-the-art technology capabilities assessment is much more modest than during the Fedorov-Davydov.

Allena is absolutely right. Unfortunately, having only photo unsigned paintings on the forum you can say yes and then not sure just who can not be its author. By the same positive responses, indeed, should be treated only as a reasonable person, not more.

Undoubtedly, the rights and Fedorov-Davydov, but he attributed through his brain, in whose memory deposited thousands of manners of different artists. In order for such a "brain" to make the attribution of modern computer technology, one technique is not enough: we need 100%but to formalize the process of such attribution. But this has not been done. This is impossible without the active cooperation of specialists in the closest of three is not yet related fields of science: art, the collection of "experimental" data, and a branch of mathematics as pattern recognition. So until now everything is almost as in times of Fedorov-Davydov, but, alas, no longer "Fedorov-Davydov, and therefore the possibility of examination modest.

[Черномашенцев Владимир]

Сообщение от Amateur

No doubt, the rights and Fedorov-Davydov, but he attributed through his brain, in whose memory deposited thousands of manners of different artists.

Сообщение от Dmitry

I read the work of Fedorov-Davydov, who described the artist's first on the palette and characteristic strokes of the brush. He believed that, then as an artist puts the brush strokes are very individual and may be a sign of the same attribution as the person's handwriting.

The problem will be the same as with fingerprints. Police found fingerprints at the crime scene, but did not find an analogue-based ...
Artists - millions. Even bearing in mind the manner of several thousand artists, it is impossible to determine the artist's already out of ten thousand on the list. And what to say about a hundredth thousand?
How to make a mandatory artistic "fingerprinting"? What to do with dead artists, who have left their "fingerprints"? And with modern artists are not so easy - some not persuade to give paintings to the exhibition or a print in the edition of "Encyclopedia of painters. Free.
And who will be "fingers" to leave clearly non-free?

[раскатов]

Сообщение от Tjutchev

Note from ANTIK
Pictures Unsigned EXPENSIVE NOT BOUGHT.

Buy, buy, and yet how dearly!

Just about the paintings of the famous before the revolution, trading houses, such as for example, such a pretty decent landscape with a label trading house IA Kumberga in St. Petersburg, Bolshaya Morskaya, № 19.
Unknown artist. Landscape at sunrise. Canvas, maslo.84 X 120. Sold at auction NAGEL.
Lot number 702. - 3500 EUR.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от rolls

Unknown Artist. Landscape at sunrise. Canvas, maslo.84 X 120.

Here is a good size.

[SAH]

Сообщение от rolls

Just about the paintings of the famous before the revolution, trading houses, such as for example, such a pretty decent landscape with a label

Indeed decent

[наследник]

Dmitry, here and try to relate his picture with this, but - without prejudice.

[Дмитрий]

Сообщение от Allena

Photo, laid out on the forum, can not serve as grounds for a serious attribution. You can make assumptions

I agree, very much like to hear just the assumption that the authorship of paintings. In Kuindzhi me once speculated that this may be Alisov or Kharlampi Kostandi. Alisov more preferable from the standpoint of painting and in terms of his biography (he spent several years he studied in St. Petersburg at the J. Klever and, consequently, his work could be sold there). Another suggestion was made that this could be a student Kuindzhi AP Krause. Unfortunately, I did not yet know nothing about this artist.
May be other versions on the authorship of paintings.

Сообщение от Allena

And there are specialists, and technical level of expertise is very high. Face - check.

Encountered, have been convinced. Not only I, but also very experienced in matters of antiques people do not know who to contact in Moscow for the attribution neizvesnogo artist. Yes, you can get some sort of conclusion, which would indicate that the picture of an old and professional. In the case of a sale it will be a certain advantage, but in questions of authorship does not give anything.

Сообщение от Amateur

should be 100%but to formalize the process of such attribution. But this has not been done. This is impossible without the active cooperation of specialists in the closest of three is not yet related fields of science: art, the collection of "experimental" data, and a branch of mathematics as pattern recognition.

Ready to participate in such work, if it is the customer. Professionally concerned with artificial intelligence, databases and knowledge of previously solved some problems of digital signal processing and image.

Сообщение от heir

Dmitry, here and try to relate his picture with this, but - without bias.

The picture looked. In this picture something definite hard to say. Perhaps it is good. Artist unlikely to me.

[Тютчев]

Сообщение от rolls

Just about the paintings of the famous before the revolution, trading houses, such as for example, such a pretty decent landscape with a label trading house IA Kumberga in St. Petersburg, Bolshaya Morskaya, № 19.
Unknown artist. Landscape at sunrise. Canvas, maslo.84 X 120. Sold at auction NAGEL.
Lot number 702. - 3500 EUR.

     Presumably, the image of Western Europe. At first glance, they are nice, but if you draw near close, so you begin to look closely to details, critics can not stand. Fast moving consumer goods, in one word. Although who knows, maybe in Russia, such Laban. Do not be surprised. Such technology is easy to learn. Something like the production of well made furniture. I saw very similar, so those were Western. Paints, one in one.
   I think these pictures were in demand by the inhabitants and sold in Russian stores of the time.

P.S. However, the picture is difficult to judge. I am rather talking about those pictures that are seen directly. (It is very similar (for photos), this landscape for those works.)