Memoirs of O. Yakovlev Roginsky

[LCR]

We are now preparing a book of memoirs about Roginsky, due out in UFOs.
Recently, I received a transcript interview Oleg Yakovlev, he was taken my young and very talented friend Ira Kronrod, and it I really like it. I think the editor of the book Tackstem grind and cut, probably because it is long, but I want to give him a "kind," let it be a stream of consciousness - he's clever and sometimes funny, sometimes insightful, in general, see, and when tired, you can throw

I should explain that in some places referred to Nana - I did it myself and there. The fact that Liana I am on your passport, this is my official name, and everything is always nadyvali me Nana. Yes, I'm half Georgian, half Polish (I know, I know, the combination now is that neither is popular, but I do not hold it against me, I can not change anything )

Oleg Yakovlev
Interview Irina Kronrod

RP. It was many years ago, 20 years, probably, he says: "You know, I think that is so pleasant a person dies. Example. Such a thing is not worth printing.

IR. You are not asked what he had in mind?

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RP. Dying is not, well, that's the process of dying, when there arms and legs refused, and so on, when the soul is there somehow hovers and leaves the body ... These things are not worth it. Here. Of the artists he most loved, I think, two. "Funeral in Ornano" Courbet, he really liked this painting, he often went to the Louvre for hours looking at this picture. In my opinion, this was one of his favorite artists. A lot of characters ... Such fuscous in principle. Misha - a man was grim. Although it slipped some jokes ... and sometimes he said, but serious jokes, never have I heard of vulgarity. And by the way, I am very grateful to him, one of the first, probably, considered the Russian Schnabel. Moreover, precisely the period which is less successful at Schnabel, that these plates, which even then fall off it already. He told me even some time it imposed: see Schnabel, what daring what he's wonderful, powerful, a true American. Well, I somehow did not really, I remember, on the contrary, I was annoyed by these plates stupid. And then suddenly revealed Schnabel in his abstract works, fantastic ... I'm an idiot that did not buy one work Schnabel, who was long ago on the FIAC-e, it is called "Maria Callas", you know it, probably, surely it hangs in some a very good place, do not know? This triptych, a great job in this whole wall. Over 400 000 francs to sell, well, just ridiculous, you could buy, had the money, you idiot. Here. What else to add something? So I think that the two major was your favorite artist - dashing Schnabel and multi-figured compositions, very successful, the dark, in the spirit Roginsky, gloomy. Although I think that this idiocy of Soviet life, which he extolled. Do you know for sure these great works on the oilcloth, I gave them their Nana and she recently restored, with bubbles: "You know, Sartre died. - Yes, he's dead, so what? "(Laughs). The bubbles, of course, not invented it, the blisters went into the painting from Larionov, from children. I've seen, by the way, awesome pictures of some of the kings, in my opinion, Alexander I, children's drawings, there is some bubbles, too, he wrote it in French. «Maman dit ....» Is there something like that. Fascinating. That, and he laughed when he showed this work, we had participated in the same exhibition.

IR. What?

RP. Was George Lavrov gallery /George Lavroff. Disgusting this Frenchwoman, then she was the mistress of the gallery, when her husband was Georges Lavrov, a rare son of a gun.

IR. Where is it located?

RP. It was a very good location, it was very close to Tamplonom, the old Tamplonom, on the same side. Tamplon was in the yard. It was also a porch in the yard, but much closer. Near a gas station. There was still hanging brick "gallery Lavrov" Three years ago I was walking, she still hung. There, in my opinion, was once the room with the ambulance, but they are rebuilt. Very nice gallery. But because they are crooks, and their reputation has been undermined by these vorovanymi works Filonov, four watercolors, you know.

IR. No.

RP. Well? Filonov can not be on the market, because the whole Filonov was handed his sister in the Russian Museum. Filonov nothing to sell, categorically not sell to anyone. Maybe he's someone gave to a great love. He was offered big money for his work, but he refused. In short, there are not any on the market. And someone has forged four watercolors Filonov, left them in the Russian Museum, and the real work has taken away to the west. And Chet Lavrov suggested they work. And they gave directly across the street at the Beaubourg. Russian realized it was a process. In my opinion, was not even a process, in my opinion, the French have shown good faith and passed easily. Prices, in my opinion, were on 25 000 francs for watercolor.

IR. So, why did you work with laurel?

RP. Well, first of all, he was Russian, and secondly, the profits here in this bank, all of a sudden, I do not know why, probably, he had some problems with Israel ... And no, the army, he served as something. I do not know why. He was a roguish fellow, I think he had some problems in Israel at that time. Like this friend of his, former, Mark Wasilewski, disgusting. Well, everyone was talking about him, even Georges Lavrov said that this sleazebag. In his view enough to understand it.

IR. All right. Hence, you have done with Roginsky exhibition Lavrov's. Together, or were even more?

RP. There were also other artists.

IR. Who else was there?

RP. I see. I have, perhaps, was an invitation. And Roginskii exhibited these great works. And he went, giggling, rubbing his hands, and terribly happy. He was worried now this idiocy of Russian life. Shades of these, all this garbage. I do not know why. He had all his childhood ... I do not know, maybe it's some kind of first impression - that the power cord and plug this one - almost all the work. Thirst for electricity had this inexplicable.

IR. Plus, they get some sort of ontological reality. So live ...

RP. That wall you remember? Old work, very often, do not switch, namely the outlet. Sometimes, even with these very tricks of ceramic, that attach the wires. They are beautiful, of course, I also liked it, but not enough to enter into painting.

IR. It means you believe it to this his work with gurgling ...

RP. I think Roginskii drawn to literature - all without writing a literary work, he wanted to illustrate. Already.

IR. And what would it be for work, if he wrote that a genre?

RP. Well, I think it was closer to ... maybe even to Trifonov. Oddly. Which I do not like very much. Well, Trifonov does not suit me. He is not a singer communal. I do not know.

IR. So you would define as a singer Roginsky communal?

RP. Of course! Yes, absolutely. No, I am sure that Misha had a very hard life, weight problems, and he fought once, giggling with his last strength. Scoffed at the fact that his once humiliated and tormented.

IR. So you think that even in his Paris period ...

RP. Paris will not affect his work, he also wrote all his life to Moscow. And Misha, I once asked: "Well you ever painted in Paris, view of Paris. And he said to me he is not interested in Paris.

IR. Still, he has great scenery, for example, type Rivoli ...

RP. Well, this is some recent work, perhaps, after the conversation already. He has some work that little bit even Bonnard stretch, barely.

IR. You know, it is remarkable that you mention Bonnard, because the other day when I was at an exhibition in the gallery Schmidt, and there hung Bonnard, and I was just a shock: a piece of Bonnard, which is absolutely Roginsky. Absolutely Roginsky.

RP. Well, somehow, he probably ... But in these years we have never met. I last saw Misha, incidentally, should show the film, the last of his Opening Day at Aliskevicha.

IR. In what year was it?

RP. That was two years before his death.

IR. And then we have not met?

RP. Then not met, and before that we also did not meet with him.

IR. And when you meet him?

RP. From Roginsky we met in Moscow in 1973 in the studio, so it was a small apartment Misha Chernysheva. Here. Misha I am very grateful for many things, that is, so he took me to the Library of Foreign Literature, the handle just took and took: see logs, do not be stupid. Now he tells everyone that he was my teacher, but it is not true: it works on my can not say, but I forgive him because of this. And then he introduced me to Roginsky. I remember just like it was yesterday, he walked through the door, a man of medium height, wearing a green cloak, a cloak overlaundered greenbacks, and in the hands of the string bag, string bag is absolutely the same as in his paintings. I think there was a bottle of kefir and something else, wrapped in a gray piece of paper or brown paper, well, remember the paper. I was just shocked routine. He did not like beards ... no ... I mean he beard and penetrating eyes, he has a clean, but at the same time firm, not children, not a naive view. He looked at me, "Yes!" Appreciated. -Oh, hi, Michael! - Hello, hello, so bass. You found him, right?

IR. No, I'm with Nana met two weeks after his death.

RP. That's because a little nabychilsya. Looked work of Misha, my work was not there. Since I do not think he liked other artists. He was, I think, and do not even think I have every confidence, self-sufficient artist. In addition to Schnabel, who he wanted to take now that America's daring and freedom of some. That, and it is unlikely he was interested in some other artists. But no! Though he always spoke very highly of the Turkish and Zlotnikov. Here, it may be, its some old friends, I do not know neither the first nor the second, only work. Unfortunately, I was surprised that he was absolutely indifferent, maybe he did not know these works, I love you very much, Lord, he died in Paris long ago, this man, who was very much like Kafka, surprisingly, with Jewish-Armenian name ... same name as that? Well, "Science", you remember him now. He went to Poland in 58, and then went to France, and here the stories, he closed the man was, and had little contact with other artists who remained in Russia, then, in 1958, all correspondence was intercepted, of course, and no letters did not reach for sure. There, he painted some works on huge rolls of paper, long almost a kilometer. He went there for something he missed. Some abstract works, as was his name, now ... Then he had a translation agency, and I've already learned in that capacity. He was a friend ... as he was a close friend of Shelkovskoy, I do not know, anyway, I saw him once in the company Shelkovsky. What was his name (rummages in directories).

IR. Ah Lord Vladimir Slepian ..

RP. Amazing artist.

IR. So Roginskii?

RP. And, yes, Roginsky, of course, juices, he was very fond of, well, they were old friends.

IR. But he loved it, it's a personal friendship, or art?

RP. I think that art, he liked here this looseness, this outrage, which Sokov allowed himself, as one of the best painters in the Art Institute. When I got to Strogangovku, so I'm not studying there, I told this story, but long before I met Kozlinskikh and Kozlinsky the then head of the department was drawing. And when I hit the Art Institute of Kozlinskikh, he showed me the work Sokov, academic figures. It was something unbelievable, he painted as a god. Well the same story that happened to Burlyuk. Burliuk was an incredible graphic artist, went to the most savage primitive and Juice went even further.

IR. What Roginsky said about Slepian?

RP. About Slepian did not say anything, he did not know him. Have not seen his work. Although, maybe I'm wrong, but I've never heard of.

IR. And when you first saw the work Roginsky?

RP. Work Roginsky I saw in the magazine «Studio International», an English journal, I do not know it exists or not, in the reproductions. Some Czech went to Russia and filmed there quite a lot of artists, this avant-garde, I do not know what to call it illegal ...

IR. Non-conformist?

RP. In short, I saw these works, I'm afraid they liked.

IR. And there was a Roginsky?

RP. Well, just a wall some doors, something like that, as far as I remember.

IR. That is, 60-ies.

RP. Yes, if it were black and white photographs, four of the worksheet. Well you can find this magazine.

IR. That is, it was before your personal interview with him?

RP. That was before my meeting with him, so I'm so glad to see this artist. I was delighted, and I immediately said, I liked the fact that he comes from pop art and pop art is absolutely Russian. Neither the "Brill", or "Kent" or "Coca-Cola, and here is the Soviet way of life, the most sickening.

IR. That is for you the idea of pop art, you take it that the Russian art was Pop Art.

RP. Well, communal Who? Roginsky and I do not know, well, a follower not a follower, it is not a follower, Kabakov. Its installation on the theme of communal. They are very interesting to me terribly boring, I love painting, I find it hard to appreciate such work. Then it seems to me that Ilya - a man cunning unlike Roginsky, Roginskii to the utmost sincerity in these works. Or he said something, or he nabychitsya, so puff up, and says nothing, if it something does not like it. I think that they are now two ... Well, maybe just Zlotnikov. Not Zlotnikov and Turkish! Turkish, too, the life of Soviet and shops there, echoes.

IR. So, here's an idea put forward by Sapgir that Roginskii - the father of Russian pop-art.

RP. No, I do not think that he, he, I think that Zlotnikov too. Although Zlotnikov no Zlotnikova can be ranked as the artists might not be a pop arat, but, Lord, as they are called that? Well, "Another" F "," Again, Three, bytopisanie with elements of optimism.

IR. Yes, but just pop art - it is as if some reaction to a society of excess konsyumericheski minded, huh?

RP, You know, for us to gauge - is to get some order, by any party under the May 1, there will a jar of crab and happy, green peas to make a salad, I remember how it was difficult. Maybe this time you do not remember. And I remember how my dad was happy he at that time already was a colonel, held a high post, he was awarded for the launch there any satellites, but when he received an order by May 1 mom terribly happy. Oh, green peas! Ah Can you imagine what it is. Or there is the bank squash caviar! Incredible joy! For us, it was already a surplus. I can say is irrelevant. In my class there were five children of ministers. It depended only on the location of the house. While there was some Chinese School, where he studied Hindi, there were no British or French schools. Anyway, it all depended on the area. And here in our class were normal children, children of the proletarians, the children of Soviet officials, I, the children of five ministers and plus there are some secretaries still something there. Large bumps. We were very close friends, and went to each other at home. I've seen live ministers. Ira Taranich we had, which I studied English, for example. She came a teacher, taught English. And I saw how they live. Well, Lord, any inzhinerik lives worse. Nothing special. And in the country, the usual summer residence, where the green paint painted, Peter Palych from some control of their guard, had a car. Nothing special. For all that, that my father worked hard as the Pope Carlo, day and night. I must say that it reminded me a lot of Peter the Great. Heavy industry led, you can imagine.

IR. Since returning to Roginsky, when you saw the first time his work, they are afraid you liked.

RP. They liked it I'm afraid that ... I've seen this before, someone had brought me, in my opinion, was huge in the Life of Andy Warhol published. It was the 64 th year. I saw this Life, and realized that life still can not go on, have something else to do. And I started there something riveting, some cloth glued to the canvas, something else. All this is thrown out long ago, my mother. She tried very hard to get rid of this garbage: "Well, you're a grown-up now!". I remember when I came out of the army, I assembled an absolutely parallel with Roginsky railway posters and all sorts of posters there for safety, and civil defense, and even met with the artist Sorokin, who drew the posters on civil defense. Well it's been a work of genius!

IR. Roginsky they too collect?

RP. Roginsky collected them and was inspired by these railway posters, there are works that I have, that Nana photographed. He had a lot of work, a peasant who falls under the engine with bulging eyes, absolutely brilliant! Well, all this in another way it was drawn much more freely. Still, a sense of the horror remained. And I gather, my mother threw it all, still can not forgive her. The day before yesterday had a row with her again a little bit ... Oh, nightmare.

IR. And now you see Roginsky.

RP. And I saw Roginsky and terribly pleased! Oh! I had a masterpiece: Smoking in places where allowed! This poster was a rather thick cardboard. The strongest thing! If Roginskii saw, I do not know, he just burst into tears of happiness. And I took risks, could sit for 15 days, I went with the mites, all this pulling, the stations are different, I think, before I even drove Petushkov. Still. Unlike Erofeev. Terrific. At the Paris road, I remember traveling done. Well, and I am just glad that he sings exactly what should sing right here, on our Soviet land.

IR. What is sing on Soviet soil?

RP. Well that's just what makes a smile and lets skeptical that the Soviet way of life. That is to change the sign completely. Change minus to plus. And Roginsky succeeded magnificently. Although, with everything, he was very serious. Bascom said so under his nose. Sometimes he reminded me a hedgehog. Although his eyes are certainly not like a hedgehog, but bristled!

IR. After your first meeting you will immediately become friends?

RP. No. No, no, no, I had nothing to show him, and he once, in my opinion, even I did not notice.

IR. And you do not want to go to his shop to see what he does?

RP. I got to his studio, just when he was with Nana. Perhaps, in the 75-76 year, in a basement somewhere close to the Pushkin Museum had been the studio, a basement was Roginsky then leave, I do not know why, apparently, wanted to discard the life and forget about everyday life, he wore Tarpaulin boots, some kind of jacket, well then my jacket and I wore it was fashionable. But he had some such awful jacket, wool stuck there, I do not know ... Here.

IR. And who brought you there?

RP. Me? Who brought him? I do not remember anyone of the artists, in my opinion, Yura Tilman, a sculptor. He lives in Italy, I have long not seen him. And my wife was French, Dominic. Here, well, we fell, of course. So we sat, but if I were not sitting, we would have fallen.

IR. Roginsky you show your work?

RP. He showed his old job. If not, well, of course, I've seen in 75-m of his work at the exhibition, what he called retro. But they liked me less.

IR. But he'll take the ambiguous attitude.

RP. For a bye-bye, shu-shu, I realized that it was not him. What is it a temporary fad, that it will go. That was clear. He could not combine with any Izmailov, no ... as a second-it was a painter, clean water merchants, portretiki drew, tut, tut, tut, tut. Even on their background Roginskii stood with their trams, but it is a Dutch smacked on the other side.

IR. And when you came to see him?

RP. He showed us all the doors there, switches, no switches, sockets.

IR. He commented something?

RP. No, he giggled. Giggling, some pants there on a stool, I just remembered. What struck me was so confident brushwork, swear words in certain jobs, and the exact (laughs), penetration in these works. Well, just wonderful, lasting impression, as yesterday was! Although the basement this ... Well, maybe this ambience is just a game ... just that it was necessary in order to better see these works.

IR. What do you think, what is the status of the text in his works? What he introduces the word?

RP. We live, we do not care - I think so. We live and we are happy. Something like that. Although I say again, I emphasize, that in life he was a cheerful person. I think that as probably the best artist I do not know how, probably, any artist, except for traders at all really, throughout his life he painted his portrait. As I am trying to draw a self portrait, well, I may be a lot of self-portraits, because it was such Yakovlev, Yakovlev was-so. A Roginskii - more of a piece, his childhood, such as in his youth was shocked he wanted to find something good, funny in this period of his life.

IR. Many people react to his art is very clear in saying what a depressive artist. What do you think?

RP. I think the same mistake as with Chekhov. Absolutely. Chekhov, too, giggling. It seems to me that they would be very good friends, and shook hands with one another would. I do not know whether he loved Chekhov Roginsky. In general, I must say that Roginsky never seen a book, he never discussed what we read. I do not know, read it ooze?

IR. About the books he did not say?

RP. Never. With me he never said.

IR. And about painting?

RP. About painting he was saying very much. He showed his work, for example, when we had become friends with him, I often came when they arrived here in Paris, they even for a time lived with us in our small, can even say, a tiny two-room apartment with two dogs, was too small, but very nice. Captivating dogs were. But they somehow could not find seats. Then he succeeded, thanks to the fact that my wife was my grandmother. And this is my grandmother was a tiny chambre de bonne, and he began to paint there shelves, they even lived there. And then, I do not know, in momemu, Victor Kullback help them be registered on the River Seine in the Cité des Arts. And they are lucky, they did not live in this terrible building, but in this old French house, where several apartments converted into a studio and so on. And there was a skylight, hatch or something, as I remember, Nana knitting, Nana earning money immediately, it is an amazing woman, of course, I admire her feat just otherwise would not call her life Roginsky. She immediately settled somewhere again Kullback she arranged to sell knitwear for some samples, at first she was on hand knitting, then on a knitting machine, and sold at some chic boutiques, Nana, of course, it is incredible needlewoman . That, and it appeared some money. And then Roginskii not sell anything. Or chance. No sell-sell! He bought a Pole, from whom I bought then, one or two of work, now I can not remember who lived also in the Cité des Arts, which with great respect the work Roginsky, but he did not have much money. I had bought because they had run out completely. And I have just started (laughs). Well, then, of course, brothers-artists, the same Kullback, who likes to tut-tut shu-shu.

IR. And so the era when they lived with you, you talked a lot about painting.

RP. We did not say anything, absolutely, that is, questions ... They had a difficult journey, this whole mytarnya with papers, with the dogs, something to take out something to bring, some canvases, then these works, which they exported, go the Ministry of Culture and then humiliate another to stamp a set. They were exhausted. And I have felt more or less old Parisian, I could order a beer, French said. Well, we walked, I showed them a little Paris, ordered a beer in a cafe, they went crazy: What's his French! Вобщем, nonsense! Nana was terribly angry, she just hated the whole scoop, spat and praising Paris. Roginsky tried to find a place, he wanted more than anything else, it seemed to me to start drawing.

IR. And he had a period when not working on?

RP. Well, at my home there was nowhere to just work it. As soon this chambre de bonne, he immediately began to draw. I remember I went somewhere on the third day, already on the wall was priknoplena work, and there he painted some shelves, still something of the sort. Of course, all of them stunned as all of us, plenty of shops and so on. I think, just that these shelves with bottles of unknown ... he drew, not because he's so fond of drink, he liked to relax and call him a drunkard can be impossible. I do not see him drunk ever. Sometimes he was a bit ... hee-hee ha-ha, a little tipsy. But no more.

IR. Do you think that these regiments appeared ...

RP. It's like a reaction. Because on these shelves, you know, this time when nobody knows what, some hills are depicted, I think this is such a reaction to abundance. As the story Harms, remember when the oil is put on the shelf, where it was not known that. I do not know if he had read Kharms. What I have to say? Ask questions, I have exhausted my enthusiasm now.

IR. You told me that you are not sure, do read ever Roginsky anything.

RP. No, no, I'm sure he had read, we just never talked. There was a beautiful Roginsky syllable, and it is much more smoothly expounded his idea than I am now. It was evident that a man of great, deep culture. Simply, we never talked about the literature.

IR. And what are you talking about?

RP. His work.

IR. You have expressed your opinion about his works, or rather, he talked about his work?

RP. I am sometimes asked: Misha, and what you're inspired, there is, say, painting this picture? He told me: Oh, now I remember there was such a communal, some there, I do not know, Sidor Palych lived, I came to see him, he has a chest of drawers, nearly all of them documented, as he said. How would photographs from the past.

IR. That is, he talked about some of the actual scenes from life, as a source of inspiration?

RP. We often talked about it, probably the most successful Soviet period after, probably ... well, of course, meeting with Nana is another, but when he taught at the Institute of Distance culture, I do not know what was called, I do not remember [ZNUI], it is very took a lot of amateur artists. You could even say involved art brut. And several of his students they did was amazing. He often talked about it, it is open, its proximity to the Soviet theme. In particular, he praised Leonova, this remarkable. Not an astronaut. Leonov, then again he was, he even gave me a job, but it described the cat that had to be thrown.

IR. Roginsky was able to engage in dialogue not only with the classics, but also his own disciples.

RP. You know, the best show, incidentally, about which we spoke with Roginsky happened in my life in Russia, the Soviet Union, is "Glory to Labor". I do not remember what year it was in 70-some 72, perhaps a year, 71 maybe. Health Exhibition, and six months she must have behaved, well, because the people. Because the people drew. In the Manege. All Arena. I do not know how many there were artists: there was Leonov, there were some colonels, and always pointed out, who drew this picture - the teacher, they do not know, tractor, Tralee Wali. Colonels all painted the same still life: is the brandy and Lemon cut into a plate. Or a plate on the right, or a plate on the left. Or have an opened bottle of brandy in the glass of brandy, or unopened, liqueur-glass waiting when poured. Wonderful! 20, probably, colonels, drawing the same still life. Leonov, of course, shook his great work, they do not know "the farm's future." That and, of course, it was also the starting point at Roginsky. As said, Glinka, we only arrange the music and the people composing. Naturally! Absolutely. Indeed. I absolutely agree with Glinka.

IR. But in this case, all the work Roginsky in Paris, they seem to ...

RP. They are popular. Absolutely. And Roginskii himself - People people, with all his mind there, education picturesque course. Of course, he is a man of the people, of course. I have never seen any of snobbery, or any ... Pride was, he certainly knew the value of his work, of course, he saw his talent, he saw how it differs, I think he considered himself, I am sure for sure quite rightly, one of the biggest artists in the world significance.

IR. Is there something that you do not accept it as a painter? You talk about a shock that you experienced when you saw his work.

RP. All agree. He's just like my mother. Honestly. All agree, I love all the work Roginsky, I do not know a single mediocre work in Roginsky. None. I am always critical attitude to painting, but ... Roginsky - my favorite artist.

IR. The most favorite.

RP. Well, not my favorite, but it is just in the repertoire of artists, sorry for the militaristic comparison, in the same group of artists that I incredibly expensive.

IR. Returning to the theme of the Russian artist in the west, as you think he found his place?

RP. No. No. But he did not try. He specifically did not try. In recent years he tried ... but the French did not understand him completely. The French love to tut-tut shu-shu, something like intererchikov. That kind of work that I try out offer. I think. I was guided to make such bye-bye shu-shu, but with humor. Then his life is unclear. Russian for them - is vodka, balalaika, a drunken gypsies in a restaurant. Basically. To them, this life is incomprehensible. They do not know Russian, they are not particularly interested.

IR. Reverse the question. They could not understand this life, was whether Roginsky understand this life, the French?

RP. He was not interested in French life, as I think. I think they are showing some of Nana familiar French, who loved even Mishin painting, or to love, something to buy. I do not know, I'm not sure what they were really French, first. Maybe they were people with some oriental experience, which is settled easily. I just could not see them ever. But I remember that Misha once approvingly of someone spoke, that's what good people, ta-ta-ta, la-la-la. But it somehow ended quickly. And then I did not hear about them. Most of his friends were the same immigrants, well, I do not know who had come earlier, maybe later ...