In that invest beginner?

[mihailovoh]

cayman,
An experienced person from the site told me * I have long ceased to raise the target. That you buy * Probably through this pass all the fans, you first bought mestnyh.kak vse.potom already have artists on stage in Moscow vystavkah.sleduyuschim promoted avtorov.I only comes otrezvlenie.chto investment is for professionals who have sources sbyta.a for fans is to sebya.dlya dushi.Vernut all the money spent is not possible even with the price increases will likvidnoe.a tk.ne all that. that liquidity is a very long time .
Buy for dushi.pokupayte the authors or from the family naslednikov.ne try to buy the old or untwisted-counterfeit more poloviny.vse turns in the market with a touch kriminala.ochen a lot of money tied up.

[Meister]

to invest in stocks, you should very well understand that you buy, and to monitor the situation on the market, so your shares are not turned into sheets of paper or a virtual registry entries. To invest in art, you just need to read carefully at least this forum. In the art market, a huge number of names for secure attachment (I'm not talking about contemporary artists). Perhaps these investments and will bring huge revenues, but their money you will not lose, but with the shares is a big question.

[AlexanderG]

Сообщение от Meister

to invest in stocks, you should very well understand that you buy, and to monitor the situation on the market, so your shares are not turned into sheets of paper or a virtual registry entries.

Est 'riad konservativnyh aktsii, prakticheski bezriskovyh. Bonds daze luchshe.

To invest in art, you just need to read carefully at least this forum.

Eto budet grubeishei oshibkoi. Vy poteriaete vse den'gi.


In the art market, a huge number of names for secure attachment (I'm not talking about contemporary artists).

Sovershenno ne verno. Takih imion ochen 'malo.

Perhaps these investments and will bring huge revenues, but their money you will not lose, but with the shares is a big question.

Obiazatel'no poteriaete. Art rynok gorazdo bolee riskovyi, chem rynok aktsii i nedvizimosti.

Vnizu ia vylozil chast 'svoei stat'i o sravnenii investitsii. Pover'te ia sdelal ochen 'serioznoe issledovanie na etu temu i daze dissertatsiiu zaschitil.


Main differences between the share market and the art market:
• The art market is divided into "a series of several small fragmented markets influenced by unquantifiable factors such as fashion, degrees of restoration and aesthetic choice." (Chanin, 1990, p.77). There are substantial differences between the markets for paintings and prints, contemporary art and Old Masters paintings. In every case price is related to each particular subject.
• Hard to standardize - works of art are unique and practically unquantifiable.
• Consequently from the impossibility of standardization, there are no reliable sources of reference supporting investment in art.
21 • Art ownership carries some costs (such as restoration, framing, insurance, freight etc), which are not related to shares.
• Art has geographical boundaries (people tend to buy the art of their own country, and often undervalue foreign art) when shares have equal value internationally.
• There is often a considerable financial loss from commissions paid to dealers or auction houses when selling a painting (from 10-50%), but without a sale no money can be obtained (very seldom money can be loaned for the security of the art , but not a high percentage of the actual price).
• Art does not bring a regular income in the form of annual yield, unlike shares.
• There are many law related particularities (tax deductions, loss deduction, tax benefits etc), which differ between investment in shares and art investment.
"Art as an investment is a misconception that rests on false premises, both aesthetic and financial. Art is a matter of judgment. The word` art 'is value neutral ". This statement is in direct correlation with Marx's concept of "nothing can have value, without being an object of utility" (Marx, 1867), which was mentioned in the chapter on the `Commodification of art ', and it appears that Marx did not contradict himself.
"Art, however, proved unsuitable as a financial instrument, not only because of its illiquidity but because there is just not enough real art around"

[Meister]

Believe me, I also did some serious research and many years working in the field of investment in the arts. As a financier of education, and having rich experience in the financial markets, I can assure you that play in the market p /b is much easier, rather than on the art market. So much has been ultra-reliable companies that were considered blue chips, which disappeared at the time and people lost practically everything. And the name even one of the artist, who for a long time is decent money, and then again and turned into a down (again, we are not discussing contemporary art).
Risky and uncertain investments in art are those who have a poor understanding of the structure and trends in the art market. Certainly, for a beginner it seems extremely difficult, but it's not complicated. The risk of loss on investment is much lower than the stock market or real estate and it is understandable why: Monet or Kandinsky, Goncharova, or de Stael will always cost money. ALWAYS They will not demand only in the case of global catastrophe, but it also applies to other assets. Relatively speaking, I do not believe that Rosneft will exist in 50 years, but that Goncharova's work will be needed and will be the price in 50 years - much more confident.

[AlexanderG]

Сообщение от Meister

I believe, too, did serious research and for many years working in the field of investment in the arts.

Zamechatel'no, kollega. Debatirovat 's finansistom interesno.

 As a financier of education, and having rich experience in the financial markets, I can assure you that play in the market p /b is much easier, rather than on the art market.

Kakoi rynok tsennyh bumag vy imeete v vidu? Rossiiskii ili mirovoi?


 So much has been ultra-reliable companies that were considered blue chips, which disappeared at the time and people lost practically everything.

Ia v dannoe vremia zanimaius' tol'ko Avstraliiskim rynkom. No, skazem, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, BP zvuchat vpolne ubeditel'no.

And the name even one of the artist, who for a long time is decent money, and then again and turned into a down (again, we are not discussing contemporary art).


Oni uze byli nazvany v predyduschih temah. No takih ne malo.

Risky and uncertain investments in art are those who have a poor understanding of the structure and trends in the art market.

Tak ze, ka i v rynke ts /b

Certainly, for a beginner it seems extremely difficult, but it's not complicated. The risk of loss on investment is much lower than the stock market or real estate and it is understandable why: Monet or Kandinsky, Goncharova, or de Stael will always cost money. ALWAYS

Konechno budut, no kakih? Pribyl 's nih vozmozna tol'ko v sluchae prodazi.
Soderzanie, strahovanie, konsrvatsiia, i pr. , Ne schitaia protsenta prodavtsa zaberut l '; vinuiu doliu pribyli, esli ne bol'she.

Ni o kakom pokvartal'nom dohode rechi net, perekreditovat'sia pod nih prakticheski ne vozmozno. Imenno poetomu ia utverzdaiu, chto art ne iavliaetsia sravnimym instrumentom.


They will be required only in case of global catastrophe, but it also applies to other assets. Relatively speaking, I do not believe that Rosneft will exist in 50 years, but that Goncharova's work will be needed and will be the price in 50 years - much more confident.

A vy ne dumali o bezvozvratnoi potere kartiny?

Do sih por nikto ubeditel'no ne dokazal investitsionnoi tsennosti iskusstva, v to vremia, kak rynok ts /b ziviot davno.

Added after 1 minutes

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

And this is why?
How can a careful reading of the forum lead to the loss of "all the money?

Ustanut chitat ', zaputaiutsia v protivorechivyh mneniiah, zanervnichaiut i nadelaiut oshibok.

[Кирилл Сызранский]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Ustanut chitat ', zaputaiutsia v protivorechivyh mneniiah, zanervnichaiut i nadelaiut oshibok.

And, then you have nothing to read:
Sergei Sergeyevich, no! Oh if evil stop:
Pick up all the books but would burn. (c)

[AlexanderG]

Da, sovsem zabyl upomianut 'o likvidnosti.

Tol'ko predstav'te sebem chto vam nado srochno prodat 'kartinu: fil'm uzasov!!!

Added after 2 minutes

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky

A, then you have nothing to read:
Sergei Sergeyevich, no! Oh if evil stop:
Pick up all the books but would burn. (c)

Kirill, vy ze pomnite eti podurovni: poluchenie informatsii - analiz - sintes.

Na urovne polucheniia informatsii sintezirovat 'nel'zia.

[Meister]

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Kakoi rynok tsennyh bumag vy imeete v vidu? Rossiiskii ili mirovoi?

I mean the world. about Russia, I generally keep silent. Market c /b - for the most part the market speculators. To participate in the daily auctions, you need a lot of time + skills and ability to handle massive amounts of information. If you invest in n /w and not have time to pull out in time, you can generally get very serzno. Course, the Central Bank can earn more than the art. But the risks are incomparably high.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Ia v dannoe vremia zanimaius' tol'ko Avstraliiskim rynkom. No, skazem, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, BP zvuchat vpolne ubeditel'no.

Ok, the next Microsoft operating system would be extremely unfortunate, Coca-Cola doctors finally recognize the danger to the health drink, and BP announced that one of the largest deposits can not be claimed for development. And now the question: what will happen to the shares of these companies?

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Konechno budut, no kakih? Pribyl 's nih vozmozna tol'ko v sluchae prodazi.
Soderzanie, strahovanie, konsrvatsiia, i pr. , Ne schitaia protsenta prodavtsa zaberut l '; vinuiu doliu pribyli, esli ne bol'she.
Ni o kakom pokvartal'nom dohode rechi net, perekreditovat'sia pod nih prakticheski ne vozmozno. Imenno poetomu ia utverzdaiu, chto art ne iavliaetsia sravnimym instrumentom.

The content of works of art, just not so expensive, do not be misled. And restoration, and conservation - not so expensive operation, and paintings hanging at home no fear. Percentage of the seller is usually 10%, all the rest - the wrong choice of the seller. transaction costs can not eat the lion's share of the profits (if it is, of course, does not work the cost in 1000 dollars)

[Q

Сообщение от AlexanderG

A vy ne dumali o bezvozvratnoi potere kartiny?

Do sih por nikto ubeditel'no ne dokazal investitsionnoi tsennosti iskusstva, v to vremia, kak rynok ts /b ziviot davno.

What does "loss pattern"? Art market, too, has lived for more than half a century, and history shows that prices keep rising.

TE="AlexanderG; 903431"] A name even one of the artist, who for a long time is decent money, and then again and turned into a down (again, we are not discussing contemporary art).
Oni uze byli nazvany v predyduschih temah. No takih ne malo. [/QUOTE]

yet, name at least two names. I unfortunately missed, not seen.

[AlexanderG]

Сообщение от Meister

Ok, the next Microsoft operating system would be extremely unfortunate, Coca-Cola doctors finally recognize the danger to the health drink, and BP announced that one of the largest deposits can not be claimed for development. And now the question: what will happen to the shares of these companies?

Da nichego strashnogo ne sluchitsia, upadut v tsene, mozno budet horosho prikupit '.


The content of works of art, just not so expensive, do not be misled. And restoration, and conservation - not so expensive operation, and paintings hanging at home no fear. Percentage of the seller is usually 10%, all the rest - the wrong choice of the seller. transaction costs can not eat the lion's share of the profits (if it is, of course, does not work the cost in 1000 dollars)

Osoboe vnimanie hochu udelit 'fraze [COLOR="black"]do not have to mislead
Ia nikogo i nikogda ne vvozu v zabluzdenie. Esli by hotel s vami pobodat'sia, to ustroil by skandal, tak, kak eto fraza mozet byt 'istolkovana, kak obvinenie vo lzi. Bud'te ostorozny.

Da vsio vy skazali pravil'no dlia $ 50 dollarovyh kartin.

1. Za restavratsiiu chasto berut 10-15%ot stoimosti kartiny, inogda bol'she. Vo mnogih muzeiuh i chastnyh kollektsiiah eto osnovnoi rashod.
2. Daze v auktsionnyh domah%prodavtsa vyshe, au dillera on mozet dostigat '50%.
3. Osobo dorogie kartiny hraniat v bankovskih hranilischah, cto stoit, i izgotavlivaiut kopii dli steny, chto toze stoit.
4. Strahovka - ne soglasen, v etom sluchae pri pozare i navodnenii nichego ne ostanetsia.
5. Horoshaia kollektsiia privlekaet chastnogo kuratora ili registratora - eto stoit.
6. Katalogizatsiia kollektsii ne besplatna.

V obsche mogu prodolzit 'eschio na paru stranits.

What does "loss pattern"? Art market, too, has lived for more than half a century, and history shows that prices keep rising.

Istoriia takogo ne pokazyvaet.

TE="AlexanderG; 903431"]A name even one of the artist, who for a long time is decent money, and then again and turned into a down (again, we are not discussing contemporary art).
Oni uze byli nazvany v predyduschih temah. No takih ne malo.

Pod rukoi net, a iskat 'seichas ne hochu. LCR znaet, Kirill toze.

yet, name at least two names. I unfortunately missed, not seen. [/QUOTE]

Gotov prodolzit'.

[Meister]

AlexanderG, to provide, please, thoughts and answers, and then we have to understand where your, and where my. the more you have and translit write.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Da nichego strashnogo ne sluchitsia, upadut v tsene, mozno budet horosho prikupit '.

buying such a way Coca-Cola or BP is not weak can fly. I do not think you need to explain why.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Esli by hotel s vami pobodat'sia, to ustroil by skandal, tak, kak eto fraza mozet byt 'istolkovana, kak obvinenie vo lzi. Bud'te ostorozny.

I do not vedus of scandals, I'm not interested.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

1. Za restavratsiiu chasto berut 10-15%ot stoimosti kartiny, inogda bol'she. Vo mnogih muzeiuh i chastnyh kollektsiiah eto osnovnoi rashod.

Restoration is the specific money, and does not depend on the value of the picture, but from the complexity of the work.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

2. Daze v auktsionnyh domah%prodavtsa vyshe, au dillera on mozet dostigat '50%

sell through galleries (in Russia there is little trade, but they already have). Only unscrupulous dealers in Russia, such interest in the world the percentage of the mediator is 10%.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

3. Osobo dorogie kartiny hraniat v bankovskih hranilischah, cto stoit, i izgotavlivaiut kopii dli steny, chto toze stoit.

Storage paintings worth $ 3-5 a day. in the year it turns out $ 1500 if work is expensive and costs more than $ 1 million, these costs are insignificant.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

4. Strahovka - ne soglasen, v etom sluchae pri pozare i navodnenii nichego ne ostanetsia.

Fire can be insured - a cheap price. flood??? Well this is a quite strange. in general, collections in the homes are not insured.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

5. Horoshaia kollektsiia privlekaet chastnogo kuratora ili registratora - eto stoit.

under serious collection - this is not high costs. If there is a collection of small and inexpensive work, the curator and, moreover, the registrar is not required.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

6. Katalogizatsiia kollektsii ne besplatna.

Let's start with that, what is needed cataloging? usually when it is done, the aim pursued promotion and PR collections, including for resale. In this case, the costs are justified, and very well compensated.

m

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Istoriia takogo ne pokazyvaet.

Shows. Compare prices for 70-80's and today.

Сообщение от AlexanderG

Pod rukoi net, a iskat 'seichas ne hochu. LCR znaet, Kirill toze.

If you do not remember them, then why bring as proof of this argument? It seems this little known minor artists, once you do not remember them.

Added after 8 minutes

Сообщение от Veronic

In general, the world graphics and watercolor are much worse than oil bought and sold,

Nevertheless, the majority of sold works in the world - this schedule, rather than oil. I do not deny that the schedule requires special storage, and not as expensive, but
1. it is available
2. it can buy a large number of people - "liquidity is another question.
3. Graphics pulled over the rising cost of painting on a particular artist