Auction house Dorotheum in Manege - Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

Евгений · 09-06-2008, 14:08

Peter Wolf is in his eighties, but he still headed by the old masters department Dorotheum, the leading expert in this field. The main capital of the world he knows as his five fingers, but in Moscow for the second time. Reason not to visit the most intensive in terms of the old masters of the market town was the opening of the Salon des Beaux Arts in the Manege, where Dorotheum Moscow is the first time buyers their achievements.

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Peter: "Usually, old masters department at auction house is the smallest. Dorotheum in all different - here it is the largest. Its annual turnover reaches € 20 million, of course, in comparison with the Impressionists and modern art is not so much money, but old masters can not be compared with any one nor the other.

On the old masters quickly be earned. But this is the most stable sector of the art market. Their art has firmly taken its place in art history, and the history of market sales. Compared to her that make modern artists - one-sided. Today sprinkled enough paint on canvas - and you are an artist. At the same time you had to learn everything: work in different techniques, to understand the construction of tracks, to be able to create a spatial perspective.

In my practice there were many amazing stories:

One Japanese man from Florida brought in Dorotheum two magnificent paintings of Goya. First, he showed them to Christie's and Sotheby's, but it works deemed unauthentic. He turned to me and I found out that it really Goya. Simply he was 20 years old when he created these two works, and they can not be called the best examples of his work. Initially, these were murals painted on the walls of a church of Saragossa. With the help of an incredibly complicated techniques they moved to the canvas, and which were in the hands of the Japanese. Today they are in the collections of the Museum of Zaragoza.

On another occasion I was approached a woman who moved to a nursing home and wanted to sell his collection. Two Viennese dealer bought her almost everything, except for one small work, which seemed to them too dark. When I saw her, he was struck to the depths of the soul - it was a sketch of the famous canvas of Murillo's "Two of the Trinity", which is located in the National Gallery in London.

Another was the case when a young man came to work that did not like him or his wife. They wanted to get rid of the picture and asked for her check into a thousand euros. Usually it takes a long period of study in order to be sure that the work is in front of you. But if suddenly dawned on me - it was early Jan Livans, a friend of Rembrandt. Prices had been rising faster than the Rembrandt, and eventually work at the auction went for € 812 thousand

In Russia, we sell a lot more work than, for example, in the U.S.

I am delighted with Moscow and glad that Dorotheum finally got here. Dorotheum - one of the largest auction houses in Europe, we employ around a hundred experts, as the day goes on four or five auctions, and the presence of Russia's market for us is essential.

There simply is not the market, such as in Poland or Hungary - feudal countries. Russian art began to develop only in the XVIII century, but because artists are considered to be the old masters, there was practically no. And this, of course, a big problem. Be that as it may, today, our best clients is the Russians. In Russia, we sell a lot more work than, for example, in the United States. And I think that Russian buyers have gradually accustomed to the old masters. "

Meister · 10-06-2008, 18:39

Dorotheum auction house has one. It sold a lot of all, the expert commission can not cope with all that is visible on the quality and authenticity of many lots.

Евгений · 10-06-2008, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister

Dorotheum auction house has one

SodBi Christie in this regard generally suck ..

Meister · 10-06-2008, 21:36

totally disagree ... expert commissions Sotheby's and Christies significantly higher and qualified all auction houses.

Евгений · 10-06-2008, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister

, expert commissions and Sotheby's Christies significantly higher

The case occurred in 2004, when the day before the auction, Sotheby's auction was withdrawn by Ivan Shishkin's painting, as it turned out that she is a fake and is made on the basis of paintings by the Dutch artist Marinus Kukukka "Landscape with a stream." With two examinations from Russia.

Meister · 10-06-2008, 21:56

and he was 100%false? I know nothing in it?

Евгений · 10-06-2008, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister

, he was 100%false? I know nothing in it

100%falshak, simply erased the signature and wrote: Shishkin .., well, this famous story .. There were a few cases ..
At these auctions 7-10%fake.

[color="# 666686"]Added after 1 minute[/color]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister

, expert commissions and Sotheby's Christies significantly higher and qualified all auction houses.

With this agreement ..

Meister · 10-06-2008, 22:35

What about those stories we all heard of course ... but nevertheless, the ratio of genuine and counterfeit lots at Sotheby's and Christie goraaaaaaaaaaaaaaazdo less than at the Dorotheum.

Евгений · 11-06-2008, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister

not less than the ratio of true and false

Moral need to buy in Russia, in good galleries ..

[color="# 666686"]Added after 49 minutes[/color]
Yes, the only exception to the quality of examination, the auction house MacDougall's.

LCR · 11-06-2008, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

Yes, the only exception to the quality of examination, the auction house MacDougall's.

I will not argue about the quality of examination, though not agree, but when working with MacDougall's other problems, which simply can not fail to mention: suppose you put up for sale now, which was bought, but later the buyer did not pay for it (I do not know why, but MacDougall's, this situation occurs much more frequently than in other auctions) - Try to obtain from them any money, either back his work - I wish you good luck -)))))))))

09-06-2008, 14:08	Original language: Russian #1
Евгений Гуру Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 14,663 Thanks: 18,865 Thanked 16,456 Times in 4,506 Posts Blog Entries: 254 Reputation: 32443	Auction house Dorotheum in Manege Peter Wolf is in his eighties, but he still headed by the old masters department Dorotheum, the leading expert in this field. The main capital of the world he knows as his five fingers, but in Moscow for the second time. Reason not to visit the most intensive in terms of the old masters of the market town was the opening of the Salon des Beaux Arts in the Manege, where Dorotheum Moscow is the first time buyers their achievements. Читать дальше... Peter: "Usually, old masters department at auction house is the smallest. Dorotheum in all different - here it is the largest. Its annual turnover reaches € 20 million, of course, in comparison with the Impressionists and modern art is not so much money, but old masters can not be compared with any one nor the other. On the old masters quickly be earned. But this is the most stable sector of the art market. Their art has firmly taken its place in art history, and the history of market sales. Compared to her that make modern artists - one-sided. Today sprinkled enough paint on canvas - and you are an artist. At the same time you had to learn everything: work in different techniques, to understand the construction of tracks, to be able to create a spatial perspective. In my practice there were many amazing stories: One Japanese man from Florida brought in Dorotheum two magnificent paintings of Goya. First, he showed them to Christie's and Sotheby's, but it works deemed unauthentic. He turned to me and I found out that it really Goya. Simply he was 20 years old when he created these two works, and they can not be called the best examples of his work. Initially, these were murals painted on the walls of a church of Saragossa. With the help of an incredibly complicated techniques they moved to the canvas, and which were in the hands of the Japanese. Today they are in the collections of the Museum of Zaragoza. On another occasion I was approached a woman who moved to a nursing home and wanted to sell his collection. Two Viennese dealer bought her almost everything, except for one small work, which seemed to them too dark. When I saw her, he was struck to the depths of the soul - it was a sketch of the famous canvas of Murillo's "Two of the Trinity", which is located in the National Gallery in London. Another was the case when a young man came to work that did not like him or his wife. They wanted to get rid of the picture and asked for her check into a thousand euros. Usually it takes a long period of study in order to be sure that the work is in front of you. But if suddenly dawned on me - it was early Jan Livans, a friend of Rembrandt. Prices had been rising faster than the Rembrandt, and eventually work at the auction went for € 812 thousand In Russia, we sell a lot more work than, for example, in the U.S. I am delighted with Moscow and glad that Dorotheum finally got here. Dorotheum - one of the largest auction houses in Europe, we employ around a hundred experts, as the day goes on four or five auctions, and the presence of Russia's market for us is essential. There simply is not the market, such as in Poland or Hungary - feudal countries. Russian art began to develop only in the XVIII century, but because artists are considered to be the old masters, there was practically no. And this, of course, a big problem. Be that as it may, today, our best clients is the Russians. In Russia, we sell a lot more work than, for example, in the United States. And I think that Russian buyers have gradually accustomed to the old masters. "

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10-06-2008, 18:39	Original language: Russian #2
Meister Гуру Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Москва Posts: 2,576 Thanks: 1,512 Thanked 2,996 Times in 1,037 Posts Reputation: 1814	Dorotheum auction house has one. It sold a lot of all, the expert commission can not cope with all that is visible on the quality and authenticity of many lots.

10-06-2008, 21:36	Original language: Russian #4
Meister Гуру Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Москва Posts: 2,576 Thanks: 1,512 Thanked 2,996 Times in 1,037 Posts Reputation: 1814	totally disagree ... expert commissions Sotheby's and Christies significantly higher and qualified all auction houses.

10-06-2008, 21:56	Original language: Russian #6
Meister Гуру Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Москва Posts: 2,576 Thanks: 1,512 Thanked 2,996 Times in 1,037 Posts Reputation: 1814	and he was 100%false? I know nothing in it?

10-06-2008, 22:35	Original language: Russian #8
Meister Гуру Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Москва Posts: 2,576 Thanks: 1,512 Thanked 2,996 Times in 1,037 Posts Reputation: 1814	What about those stories we all heard of course ... but nevertheless, the ratio of genuine and counterfeit lots at Sotheby's and Christie goraaaaaaaaaaaaaaazdo less than at the Dorotheum.