Fake for Gelos - Page 3 - Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

Сима · 19-02-2009, 20:26

dedulya37, That you have misunderstood me, I meant that the picture without a signature - means, not a forgery, ie forgery. Now, if "they" have signed it - would be a forgery in full. A pripisyvetsya "is a children's toys, it is clear who it would be deceived. Well, someone will buy podeshevke and will be glad that MB Stozharau. Could explore, enlighten. The risk, he said, in this case is always accompanied. And then there is no risk. Would Stozharau, it would be several examinations, etc.
Decidedly not being informed about the evils Gelos, I think that is incorrect to throw at the office "a forgery", which formally follows.

dedulya37 · 19-02-2009, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sima

dedulya37, That you have misunderstood me, I meant that the picture without a signature - means, not a forgery, ie forgery. Now, if "they" have signed it - would be a forgery in full. A pripisyvetsya "is a children's toys, it is clear who it would be deceived. Well, someone will buy podeshevke and will be glad that MB Stozharau. Could explore, enlighten. The risk, he said, in this case is always accompanied. And then there is no risk. Would Stozharau, it would be several examinations, etc.
Decidedly not being informed about the evils Gelos, I think that is incorrect to throw at the office "a forgery", which formally is not like that.

I understand you correctly. That "someone" who will buy, will then display it on sale without the word "assigned" and skip the check Gelos. Two or three sales - and the work is legal.

LCR · 19-02-2009, 21:07

If these unscrupulous traders are entitled to a completely unsubstantiated "attribute" artists every scribble, then assigns experts and creativity of these artists have the right to refute them and notify the public that this work nothing to do with this artist does not have .

I've already talked here about the case, but let me remind: when my attorney has informed an American auction house, which modestly valued now (USD 1000-2000), they put up for auction with the attribution "is attributed to Roginsky, my husband did not write and could not write, and bringing strong arguments (was badly copied part of the picture, actually written Roginskii), the response we have received the following:

they argued that the world certainly there are some artists whose name is Michael Roginsky (add - and all these Mikhailo Roginsky wrote the same landscape in the same perspective!)
that if I insist, they can be attributed to: "Mikhail Roginsky - the author of this picture, is not the late husband of Mrs. Liana Roginskii";
that if I did agree to issue a certificate of authenticity, they agree to repay my epistolary efforts (taking into account the estimated value of the picture, assuming that the purchase of my signature, they would be allocated U.S. $ 15-20. How to stand against such a proposal?) .

How do you like that kind of arrogance? Hopefully, no one doubts the fact that they knew that the work they have put on sale, no relation to the creation of my husband has not. Most likely, this forgery was made at their request.

That is, as rightly said Vyacheslav, the phrase "attributed" and "on the signature" cover the most real criminal acts.

As for me personally, and I'm sure Sasha Stozharau will agree with me, I will do everything possible to stop this dirty trick, and in any case, fix them all sorts of obstacles - a waste of lawyers, bastards!

dedulya37 · 19-02-2009, 21:25

LCR,

Liana, you are absolutely right. Thank you.

Glasha · 19-02-2009, 21:32

LCR, dedulya37, fellows!

Fight necessary.
Behalf simply nepravonaslednikov join.

Жар-птица · 19-02-2009, 21:49

Pavel, The thing is that this is not the fault of "Gelos" that they sell this nonsense, and Russia's problems of our uncivil art market, where all the normal pattern go hand art dealers.
While the market does not become transparent, no change)
That is why the owners of the paintings are almost at auctions Korovin, Zhukovsky, Kandinsky, Nesterova, Somov, necklaces for 100 thousand cu maids of honor, eh? "And they sell private owners? And the owners of the paintings themselves, and I answered it," do not want to shine "..., dremuchest.: shy:

Кирилл Сызранский · 19-02-2009, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebird

Here is why owners of the paintings are almost at auctions Korovin, Zhukovsky, Kandinsky, Nesterova, Somov

Well, except for auctions, there is also a gallery.

uriart · 19-02-2009, 23:50

But what about when such an esteemed auctions as Sotebis and Christy exist in such practices as:
attributed to the artist such a
terms of such a
workshop on a certain
perhaps a certain artist.
And only when standing next to reproductions of works of the artist's name and surname with dates of birth and death, then the work can be taken purely as an author.
Not to mention the fact that if you are listed at the exhibition which displays the work of the entire provenance. Plus the view of some famous art.
All this is written in the rules at the end of the auction catalog.

SAH · 20-02-2009, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by uriart

is attributed to the artist such a man

When it saw another very wise man, he said, right here and says "bullshit". I honestly think that many thin. would like to see them copied, imetirovali, but at the same time fight nado.Predstavlyaete if you did not copy is not fake, it's very very bad, it's a failure. And so is a fake uspeh.No it is very important to show at exhibitions and published a catalog as closely as possible with the works of Art. so that was something to compare things to be seen, here and here-now fake, bullshit.

IrinaC · 20-02-2009, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlgaV

Liana!
If you presylayut links from auction sites in mainland U.S., then you probably know that a well-known around the work site ( "Man on the background of the home") had supposedly once prodannnaya for $ 2, 524 in January, is now once again exposed for 2,500 on Ebay.

Ebay can be regarded as official support for speculators.
Here is an interesting article in English:
http://www.steffichfineart.com/misc-...gs on eBay.htm

19-02-2009, 21:07	Original language: Russian #23
LCR Гуру Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Париж Posts: 6,211 Thanks: 18,677 Thanked 38,263 Times in 5,446 Posts Reputation: 29883	If these unscrupulous traders are entitled to a completely unsubstantiated "attribute" artists every scribble, then assigns experts and creativity of these artists have the right to refute them and notify the public that this work nothing to do with this artist does not have . I've already talked here about the case, but let me remind: when my attorney has informed an American auction house, which modestly valued now (USD 1000-2000), they put up for auction with the attribution "is attributed to Roginsky, my husband did not write and could not write, and bringing strong arguments (was badly copied part of the picture, actually written Roginskii), the response we have received the following: they argued that the world certainly there are some artists whose name is Michael Roginsky (add - and all these Mikhailo Roginsky wrote the same landscape in the same perspective!) that if I insist, they can be attributed to: "Mikhail Roginsky - the author of this picture, is not the late husband of Mrs. Liana Roginskii"; that if I did agree to issue a certificate of authenticity, they agree to repay my epistolary efforts (taking into account the estimated value of the picture, assuming that the purchase of my signature, they would be allocated U.S. $ 15-20. How to stand against such a proposal?) . How do you like that kind of arrogance? Hopefully, no one doubts the fact that they knew that the work they have put on sale, no relation to the creation of my husband has not. Most likely, this forgery was made at their request. That is, as rightly said Vyacheslav, the phrase "attributed" and "on the signature" cover the most real criminal acts. As for me personally, and I'm sure Sasha Stozharau will agree with me, I will do everything possible to stop this dirty trick, and in any case, fix them all sorts of obstacles - a waste of lawyers, bastards!

19-02-2009, 20:26	Original language: Russian #21
Сима Гуру Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Москва Posts: 1,422 Thanks: 2,395 Thanked 2,244 Times in 552 Posts Reputation: 4259	dedulya37, That you have misunderstood me, I meant that the picture without a signature - means, not a forgery, ie forgery. Now, if "they" have signed it - would be a forgery in full. A pripisyvetsya "is a children's toys, it is clear who it would be deceived. Well, someone will buy podeshevke and will be glad that MB Stozharau. Could explore, enlighten. The risk, he said, in this case is always accompanied. And then there is no risk. Would Stozharau, it would be several examinations, etc. Decidedly not being informed about the evils Gelos, I think that is incorrect to throw at the office "a forgery", which formally follows.

19-02-2009, 21:25	Original language: Russian #24
dedulya37 Гуру Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,017 Thanks: 5,605 Thanked 6,167 Times in 1,669 Posts Reputation: 9525	LCR, Liana, you are absolutely right. Thank you.

19-02-2009, 21:32	Original language: Russian #25
Glasha Гуру Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,976 Thanks: 9,079 Thanked 4,731 Times in 1,133 Posts Reputation: 7675	LCR, dedulya37, fellows! Fight necessary. Behalf simply nepravonaslednikov join.

19-02-2009, 21:49	Original language: Russian #26
Жар-птица Старожил Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Москва Posts: 612 Thanks: 1,863 Thanked 716 Times in 178 Posts Reputation: 921	Pavel, The thing is that this is not the fault of "Gelos" that they sell this nonsense, and Russia's problems of our uncivil art market, where all the normal pattern go hand art dealers. While the market does not become transparent, no change) That is why the owners of the paintings are almost at auctions Korovin, Zhukovsky, Kandinsky, Nesterova, Somov, necklaces for 100 thousand cu maids of honor, eh? "And they sell private owners? And the owners of the paintings themselves, and I answered it," do not want to shine "..., dremuchest.: shy:

19-02-2009, 23:50	Original language: Russian #28
uriart Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UKRAINE Posts: 8,039 Thanks: 5,979 Thanked 7,017 Times in 2,462 Posts Reputation: 12461	But what about when such an esteemed auctions as Sotebis and Christy exist in such practices as: attributed to the artist such a terms of such a workshop on a certain perhaps a certain artist. And only when standing next to reproductions of works of the artist's name and surname with dates of birth and death, then the work can be taken purely as an author. Not to mention the fact that if you are listed at the exhibition which displays the work of the entire provenance. Plus the view of some famous art. All this is written in the rules at the end of the auction catalog.