It was a great, phenomenal Museum. Maybe there is a museum of modern art of the period, larger, with lots of pictures, but the quality of such a museum is no more. I have seen the Museum of Modern Art in New York, visit the Centre Pompidou, the Museum d'Orsay and many other museums related to the art of the twentieth century. This museum, which was the Museum of New Western Art in Moscow, does not exist. Then, there are other reasons why it is necessary to recreate. Repressed museum should be rehabilitated.
One of the arguments of the opponents of this idea - a museum is broken parity, the existing balance in the museum world, and the fire of different conflicts and claims can somehow break out. Are not you afraid of?
I do not think this argument. It's just kind of a verbal expression of a negative attitude to the idea. The case of the GMNZI not be a precedent, because show me one such order, written in similar terms, as something that is dedicated to him, not to mention the fact that one of the items reads: "To pass the collection to the Museum of Fine Arts named after AS Pushkin" . The entire collection originally came to us. I have had the privilege to work here then, and I remember how I got the collection, and then it was decided to transfer some part of the State Hermitage. Because here at the end of 1949 opened the largest exhibition of gifts to Stalin for his seventieth birthday, and there was no room. All the space that was occupied by the museum exhibition. Our collections also were lowered into the cellars. Therefore, it is not a precedent! The bad news is we think about his colleagues, if they think that we will start to each other immediately thereafter submit any claims. For what reason, why we have not done this before, if these claims are serious?
If such a museum will be created, which means that a very important part of the Pushkin Museum, too, will depart in this museum.
Certainly.
Are not you afraid that act in a certain way razoritelnitsey house in which you served for so many years?
No, I'm not advocating razoritelnitsey, and tell you why. Because take Louvre - in order to create the Musée d'Orsay in Paris, France, the main museum handed over most of his collection. There switched fabric Delacroix, Courbet, Daumier, at all the great stuff the corresponding period of the nineteenth century. There's Centre Pompidou (Beaubourg), which exhibit art from the 10-ies of XX century to the present day. That is a huge time passes, the dimensionless museums. Yes, their value in the encyclopedic, and it's not bad, but they can not endlessly accumulate wealth, they are overcrowded. Therefore, such a division is legitimate. Now, by the way, on television, it was reported that the London museums give a part of their collection of the Museum of the province. Louvre made its branch in Metz. So this is a new understanding of the museum space and purpose of the museum. It becomes a different nowadays, more, I would say, right. Because you have to save valuable collections of museums, it is certainly true, but when there are precedents, it should be done, of course.
Do you think that the problem must look beyond, not only in the framework of the Hermitage and the Pushkin Museum?
Of course, this museum network Russia.
And in your opinion, what is the main problem now facing the museum community?
You know, I think that the central museums - the Tretyakov Gallery, the Russian Museum, the Hermitage, our Museum, Historical Museum - could do much more active in exhibitions in Russia. Russia needs this because the difference in the richness of collections between museums and the two Russian cities - Moscow and St. Petersburg - is enormous. But there is hampered by the lack of material and technical base, the spaces of the museum buildings that are equipped with the necessary security features, climate, and all that is necessary for the existence of museums. Therefore, it would be necessary in the major cities of Siberia, the Urals and the northern and southern Russia in the first place to build a number of buildings, and then the process will be much more organized. Not to mention the fact that the big museums can give back some of their collections without any damage to itself. As a rule, we show the one-two-three per cent of the collection, or even less.
You have touched on the problem areas, and I know that it was hot enough for most of the Pushkin Museum. You've spent a lot of effort to release this space, this museum town. What are its prospects now, as this story develops?
I want to say that the idea of the museum of the city - is the idea of our founder Ivan Vladimirovich Tsvetaeva. Surprisingly, in 1898 in his diary, when not even started construction of the museum, he said that over time, the building will overflow and then grow around the museum a museum town, two-story, three-story - it will depend on the tastes of the architects of the time. Since 1961, for 50 years, we have managed to get into the property and the operational management of several buildings, including such as Golitsynsky complex consisting of two wings and a large manor house, then fine home-Vyazemskys Dolgoroukys - a total of 11 buildings. Six of them we have already put in order: Children's Center and the House of graphics, the Museum of Private Collections ... They are all in new buildings. A total of 28 buildings turned out that form the basis of the museum campus. In addition, it is expected the construction of three new buildings, and personally, I attach great importance to this. You see, in our town is a museum Moscow architecture from the XVI century. There XVI century, there are buildings XVII, XVIII, XIX, XX century. And it seemed to me that these three new buildings should be of XXI century, and then it will be not only a museum, but also the architectural town. Already, people are engaged in architecture, the representatives of "Arhnadzora 'lead tours on this our part. And that's fine, because each city evolves. It is not surprising that Foster building we see not only in London, Boston or the South of France, but also in China, and in Berlin. By the way, this is very correct an architect, he is always a dialogue with the old architecture, he had nothing to destroy the city, fitting into him and introducing completely modern way. Moscow it is necessary, especially in the center, where there are not many good new buildings. So this idea is.
Pushkin Museum is famous not only for its wonderful collection, but also stunning exhibits that you throughout his career staged here. It was the blockbuster exhibition, which, in general, formed the spiritual lives of several generations. "Moscow - Paris", "Moscow - Berlin", the arrival of "Mona Lisa" - all this milestone in our lives. Something similar is expected in the near future at the Pushkin Museum?
We pay great attention to the exhibition work. It is always interesting to show the public that it is generally not seen to present some sections of art. Especially since we did the museum of world culture, and, say, now we have the presence of the exhibition of Islamic art is entirely appropriate. As well as showing African culture, which we have done recently. But along with this, we show and the art of the XX century. And such exhibition, which was of great importance for the development of our culture as the "Moscow - Paris" or "Moscow - Berlin", of course, very important. Yes, we continue this work, because, though it is a form of forced display of art treasures, but it resonates with viewers. Because the show is intriguing in that it typically comes in two, three, four months. Usually viewers think: well, the museum will not go anywhere, we'll go into it later - and the exhibition has a limited period of time, so it attracts more viewers.
Right now we are opening an exhibition Pre-Raphaelites. This is, perhaps, not very well known English art direction. By the way, in our country, few collections of English art, so historically. But they are few and in other museums around the world, the Louvre, the Metropolitan Museum. England is known to be quite a closed country. This is a manifestation of the British island of psychology. But the Pre-Raphaelites - this is a very important trend in the art of the UK in the middle and second half of the XIX century. This is the direction that it is necessary to consider something in connection with, say, the Impressionists, on the one hand, the Wanderers - on the other. It seems to me that this area shows how diverse the development of art in Europe in the second half of the XIX century.
I know I will hit another museum of the season - an exhibition of Titian.
Yes. Now in Rome, an exhibition of Titian, it from different places, and the Italian side it offered itself to us. But this show is big, and we certainly do not get this. We'll get maybe a dozen paintings. But it's still Titian! And the very different: both the early and quite late. Titian, who works as it all worked in the Renaissance, on religious themes. But it will be presented and well-known portraits. There will be such a thing of as his "Danae" from Kapademonte Museum of Naples. This is one of the most beautiful nudes, which marked the beginning of Giorgione in "Sleeping Venus," which we used to be, in its 55th year, saw the exhibition in Moscow from salvaged assembly Dresden Gallery. Then we showed the "Venus of Urbino" from the Uffizi. And now it will be "Danae" - perhaps one of the most remarkable paintings.
Pushkin Museum has always cultivated a synthesis of the arts. You are not restricted to just the visual arts, Richter played here, here, Anatoly Efros staged Shakespeare's "Tempest," then sang Cecilia Bartoli. Do you plan to continue this line of the museum, and not only in the framework of the festival "December Nights»?
Yes, we appreciate the different arts community because people have different perceptions of creativity - someone hears better, if I may say so, someone sees better - not in the physical sense, but simply more gifted at the hearing than vision. And so the art of helping each other. Here is the "December Nights", they are always the same theme - it is an exhibition, and then the music, which is a collaboration with her. For example, we had a theme, as a chamber music of Beethoven, and with it the etchings of Rembrandt. So this is chamber music and for one, and for another great master of the form - the symphony and the big picture, but they work in the form of a chamber. They are of different ages, from different countries, but we feel that this dialogue is impossible. This is amazing - a quartet of Beethoven and several etchings by Rembrandt. And sometimes it happens romanticism. As Richter called these "December Nights" - "three W": Schubert, Schumann, Chopin. There was also a French painting, and Russian painting ...
"December Nights" for 32 years. That's a lot for the festival, is not it?
What we're talking, it's still a zone of interests of people professionally engaged in the art for a long time. At the same time we are faced with the fact that young people need special training in order to dialogue, which we have just mentioned, were they heard. That assumes the museum do to promote the collection, attracting a new audience?
We have a special center "Muzeon," we are working there, by the way, with a variety of children. And with the affluent, who are studying in the school, which involved, take them to classes in languages, swimming, figure skating. And with orphanages where children are usually from disadvantaged families. We work with children with disabilities, children with disabilities, who come to us in wheelchairs. We are also preparing them, we have them and paint, and visit the exhibition. And a lot of what we have going on here, they stage plays, write music, make costumes. Of course, we are working with older people, and also, and come to us all sorts of people. I think we publish a lot of literature, especially in recent times: how to look painting, drawing, how you can learn to draw, and so on. That is, we have great educational programs.
And recently we did an exhibition with the house Dior. They came to us and offered this exhibition. We have done this before Chanel, there were other designers. But representatives of the Dior house we said we did not fancy salon to show your model. But we know that Dior had a gallery, he loved art. In his work he often appealed to the XVIII century and contemporary artists. And we agreed that we include the works of art in the exhibition. Thus there was a fairly large collection of Versailles, where they were not only crinolines, but also furniture, some forms of arts and crafts. Ingres was, was Mondrian. The exhibition was even Van Gogh, was a Japanese woodcut, gorgeous Goya, his "Portrait of a Woman", which we have received from the Louvre. In short, we had a lot of work on the environment of the exhibition works of art. And I was surprised to find that we have come to the viewers who have not so often. This girl from 18-19 to 25 years, they came to see the beautiful dresses. I approached and asked, "Have you been in our museum?" - "No, we are the first time." And I told them, 'You're done watching - go down there, too, there is something interesting. " And I looked, and then they did go, were scattered through the halls, looking ...
Do you think you need to come up with some new forms in order to submit art in museums?
I think so. Here, for example, excursions form: you go to a man who tells you something, then you thank him and broke up with him. Excursion form is possible and how to study when you're here once and never come back here, and you just want to know what is there. But, I think it should be not so much a tour in the usual sense, as the conversation. That is some introduction, and then did a system of questions and answers. It is necessary to ask the audience to speak up about what they see. There are a lot of all kinds of forms, and we at the museum are also looking for. But in general, perhaps, the concept of a museum visit should be changed. Something is very depressing, especially in major museums. I have some time ago there was in the Louvre and was unpleasantly surprised by this shaft when going ahead with a flag conducts a tour guide, and everywhere, on all the walls read: "To the Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa to ..." As if there's nothing else. And here comes the people there, begins filming "Mona Lisa", and above all, of course, himself against the "Mona Lisa." You know, is there some kind of vanity, a kind of superficiality, lack of personal contact, and it is depressing. Generally, of course, this is a huge problem. Maybe it is that these huge museums leviathans, as they are called, with everything, it is still possible to visit in one parish, and the need to share something they did, yes. Because it is a problem, it's definitely a problem.
I always wanted to ask you, what was your favorite show, the most important for you? When you were absolutely thrilled that she took?
You know, it's been a great many exhibitions, I would not even be isolated. "Mona Lisa" - it was, of course, some incredible miracle! Well, it may be that there was a "Mona Lisa"? And yet she was. Here starring the then Minister of Culture, Ekaterina A. Furtseva. This happened only because of her. She managed to stop the picture that came from Japan back to Paris. We told her that would be a possibility, she lit up and said, "I'll do it!" And she did it. The appearance of the Mona Lisa here and the opportunity to expose her - it's such a memorable epic, from the moment we drove from the airport now, and before all of us were free. We trotted along Gorky Street, and in front rode the entire police. Every minute on the phone boss asks me where we drive, what and how. There in the museum, and here began the most dramatic action. Picture unpacked, watched described, all as expected. And it was cooked showcase. And then the first glass, the most important (and we ordered a glass, they do not in Moscow, the Ukraine, a very large glass, brought five, in my opinion, glasses), burst into the frame. Put the second one (it was 12 at night, so everything was) - it is also snapped ... It remains one glass, in short. Head of the management of the Ministry of Culture of Fine Arts said: "My heart does not stand up, I'm leaving. And you stay, then call me, as it was. " He's gone. And here is the last glass. And they got up and stood for the entire show. But it was really scary that these bullet-proof glass all the time burst in front of us. There was something wrong.
And when the show is over, here I put the picture on the table, and the director of the Louvre, he had a special apparatus. After all, it is like an icon - it's written on the board and if the board, then it necessarily formed bend. This is the same tree. And he measured the degree of the curve. And it turned out that we have to some out there, I do not remember, micro, micro, micro changes were lower than in Japan. That is absolutely minimal. As we were happy and proud that we were all right and the climate, and with everything in the world!
A few blitz of questions: Your character in life?
Joan of Arc (without hesitation).
Your ideal of earthly happiness?
You know it's corny, but not for me. This is the health of my loved ones.
What do you value most in men?
Audacity. Love for me.
And women?
The ability to friendship.
Your main character trait?
Unfortunately, intolerance. It is peculiar to me.
What are you most afraid of?
I do not know ... I think I'm just afraid of people close to me.
What gift would you most like to have?
I would like to be able to play the piano. My mother taught music, but because we happen in life, she taught me not to.
What is your favorite poet?
Pushkin and Blok.
.......
14.06.2013, 10:05
Irina Antonova: Museums Leviathan - a problem
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