Alexander Sokurov in the "Posner"

[Тютчев]

Bring to your attention an interview with Alexander Sokurov, given to them in the transfer of Posner, Posner "from December 23, 2008. Me it seems very interesting.

Alexander Sokurov - great artist, recognized worldwide. He was absorbed in creative work in the truest sense of the word and does not burden yourself earning big money. He rents a movie, which is in tune with him, his inner world. He distanced himself from politics. But as a citizen of the world, his country and his city, he feels very painfully aware of both modern and age-old problems of human existence.

Just because we can not be suspected of Sokurov's political involvement, financial interest and philistine quarrelsomeness, his words take on a new weight. A necessary condition for the creation of works of art level Sokurov is seamless creative personality. Without this quality can not match this level! This integrity is clearly manifested in this interview makes it (the interview) and even a significant milestone.

 Despite all the attempts to shoot down Posner companion confused Sokurov still gave an assessment of the Soviet past and our present, as a citizen and a great artist - objectively, honestly and deeply. Very interesting to look at the attitude to Russia the Western community. This is especially valuable because it is a person's gaze is not only independently-minded and sensitive, but also having the opportunity to travel around the world and communicate with different people. This is very surprising interview, because, usually, these things do not fall into the ether. This, now, not to talk in the press ...

Pay attention to the reaction of Posner. It is evident that he was shocked, annoyed, despite the fact that trying to hide it. Even such a professional, as he failed to undermine and confuse Aleksandar! Posner is understandable, because not often in his studio includes such people as Alexander Sokurov.


Alexander Sokurov in "Pozner" (video and text)

http://vladimirpozner.ru/?p=554


Alexander Sokurov is in the "Posner"

Text version:

Vladimir Pozner: Good evening. Before I introduce to you the guest of this program, I would like to clarify the situation on the talk show. You remember that from the beginning I said that on the last Monday of each month we will have a talk show, will be 100 people who came - not experts, just ordinary people who would like to take part in it, and will be a guest with whom I will speak first, and then will talk to him, asking him questions came to this program. And then, well, the press began to appear the issues, why not a talk show and something was probably happening. We also are very fond of such things. And like it would be very easy: just call me or call our office and ask, will you talk-show or not? As you recall, we started broadcasting on November 17, and right in the end of November to the first talk show seemed to us just to anything - yet. But last Monday in December, 29 the number will be a talk show, as we promised. So here, I would say so.

And now let me introduce the guest of our program, this filmmaker Alexander Sokurov. Good evening.

Alexander Sokurov: Hello.

B. Posner: Tell me, please, Aleksandr Nikolayevich, you understand the word "dissident"?

Alexander Sokurov: This is a man who stands apart from others.

B. Posner: Tell me, please, and dissident may be a patriot?

Alexander Sokurov: Well, he is a patriot.

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B. Posner: I read somewhere that you were very sorry that in August 1968, when Warsaw Pact forces led by the Soviet Union came to Prague, you do not publicly protested against this. You said that the range of planted dissidents, but if you have not done anything. So we can say that you have a dissident? Or was then a dissident, a dissident or stay?

Alexander Sokurov: a great honor for me to say that I - a dissident, because, just because I did not do anything then, and watched with horror what was happening - in this battle of citizens and the state. Just because I did not do anything, just because I have studied and watched and was ashamed of publicity. I - not a dissident, of course, I - worse. I've been guilty as a citizen, as a man in front of these people. Here I am much to blame, and I will be eternally guilty and before Solzhenitsyn, and before Rostropovich, Vishnevskaya before, in front of all those who came then to Red Square, and to writers who have been tried and so on. I can not say this guilt with a wash. Yet I was not a boy - it was just the first year of university, I went to a Department of History - and in a sense, I was already an adult, but it turned out, not adults. I realized only later.

B. Posner: Alexander, that's when you were a student, you studied in VGIK, yes?

Alexander Sokurov: First in the History Department at the university, and then after the completion of VGIK, yes.

B. Posner: And then, in 1979, if I remember correctly, one year before the end you have to interrupt their studies because you have logged in quite a sharp conflict with the leadership of State Institute of Cinematography, and also Goskino. And your students' works were accused of formalism and anti-Soviet thoughts. You can tell me that for the anti-Soviet thoughts were in your student's work? How to explain this?

Alexander Sokurov: You know, because I like a man who had studied the history department, somehow already understood quite well in the end, he understood what politics is, then, in general, to me it was quite boring, so in their artwork or trying some art, no political Project I did not build, no political intentions were. But in all likelihood was strong and once and for all the final difference between what I did or what I thought of what was happening around me.

Vladimir Pozner: Well, give an example, at least one. Here's what ... Because I understand Sovietism - still a political trick or not sure?

Alexander Sokurov: The political thing. Well, first of all, it was Andrei Platonov.

V. Pozner: Your first job?

Sokurov: Yes, it was a "lone voice of a man, full-length film based on the Andrei Platonov's" River Potudan "and" Origin of the master. The author, who was then barely just beginning to publish, it seems only one book was published. And I very well remember that when we Yuri Nikolayevich Arabov, my fellow writer, came to his wife of Plato, the widow of the writer. We could not get to it, firstly, because she was afraid to let anyone go home. And then when empty, was extremely surprised that we decided to do a picture based on the books of this man.

B. Posner: That is the choice of the writer ...

Alexander Sokurov: The choice. First - the choice. First, the choice, and then the form itself, which by definition people who watched the scene, had nothing to do with socialist realism. That is, it could build a completely different way, it was extremely subjective - and the means of expression, and the mood on the emotions of the dramatic trends in general and for installation, for all languages, it had no connection with anyone and anything. Yes, saying that it is a philosophy that has no relation to Marxism and Marxist practice, and so on and so forth ... It was funny to hear it, because ... Well, because it was funny to hear. Because I did not in any way entered into these gardens policy, it never interested me.

B. Posner: Do you agree with those who say that your films elitist? They are for a very narrow audience, you need to have a certain level. These are not films that ... I do not mean cash, but that, in general, for ordinary people - I do not like the word "simple" - but for ordinary people is difficult.

Alexander Sokurov: You know, I have too much respect for their countrymen, too much respect for man as such, not to be with him sincere. Of course, here in this my sincerity, perhaps I go too deeply into their domestic accommodation, internal some sense, maybe. Well, like any intimate feeling, intimate feeling inside - it can not find a large number of supporters or understanding people. So in that sense, I remember one quite amazing replica of Shostakovich, he said, "Yes, that's my fault that I'm too fast, my fault that I'm in a hurry, and that my work sometimes take sometimes do not take. " And I can say the same thing: Yes, I have nobody to blame, that I can not be different. Then again, just to tell you, I'm not a cinematographer. I love movies, I am not a supporter of the film process and film genre - it is strange for me: I love literature. Literature for me - that's all in my life there.

Vladimir Pozner: Well, one minute, you ...

Sokurov: Yes. But it so happens that my life went step by step in the direction it is visual creativity. I wanted to be directed by the Radio - that's what I really wanted to, and engage in visual art, I do not like, especially cinema. And never piety to the cinema, I have not experienced.

B. Posner: But you are going to maybe go away from this genre?

Alexander Sokurov: If there are circumstances where I can not implement what I want, then of course I'll go, and I will do something else.

B. Posner: You know, I wonder, given what you said, your attitude to criticism. But I will go before this issue a couple of quotations. There was a great French poet Paul Eluard, who said: "artist - are the eyes, the critic - it points. But it's pretty cute, he said, but another, equally great poet, but English - his name was Samuel Coleridge - said: "The critics - usually people who would have been poets, historians, biographers, and so on, if we could: they try to apply their talents to one or the other, but to no avail, so they become critics. " Generally, major artists are usually like this, not very high opinion of critics. Here's your attitude to criticism?

Alexander Sokurov: It is very important to me. It is very important to me because I have because no intersections with the critical interests of the people who are engaged in criticism, no: they do their job, I have been doing their work. This is another artistic creativity. And the critic is able to show me the way sometimes. If a person is well educated, for me it is very important. If this is a sensitive man who feels if a person who tries to understand the product, which he says, but does not illustrate my thoughts, because I'm better than any critic I know that I did not succeed in the movie: My films are composed entirely of flaws .

B. Posner: And was the case when the critic has written to you? You may remember this?

Alexander Sokurov: I can say. This is Michael Yampolsky. Unfortunately, he lives in the United States. Well, true, and now his attitude to what I do, in general, strongly changed in the negative direction. But there was a time when this man had tremendous significance for me, this is a man of great education, a unique artistic intuition, just a brilliant man. When he left Moscow, from Russia, for me it was a great loss. Livia A. Zvonnikova - our teacher vgikovsky, which we have read Russian and Soviet literature in VGIK, absolutely brilliant man. And these people ... Actually, I believe is crucial meeting, a conversation with a man who smarter than me, educated me and that something can I open. I am looking for all along it. And I really like it. This is for me a miracle for some.

B. Posner: You know, your site can find information such that on the basis of your film crew set up studio, which is called the "Coast". What does this company is not commercial and that he does not receive any money nor public nor private. Maybe you have some secret, how to make movies without money? Especially your movie?

Alexander Sokurov: There's a little bit wrong, probably, is formulated. All movies that I do, it's all movies, in one way or another, at least, playing, participating States.

B. Posner: It is the state?

Alexander Sokurov: The State of Russian - and I am very grateful. Some documentary films, too. Well, true, documentary films for the most part we are doing in their cooperation with our foreign colleagues - Japanese, French, an international alliance in our permanent, I am also very pleased. Well, we - people are not demanding in this sense, and we are ready to work for any money. And always worked and always working. Therefore, we had so much to do and documentaries and feature films. We have in our group there is no question of some in the fees, some salaries: those who work, understand that they are in this case engaged in something else already. And it is very important for all of us.

B. Posner: We would like to invite you to a week ago, Alexander, and you told us that is unlikely to be able to, you are busy. But, you know, we are people interested, journalists, and has reached us that you were meeting. If I'm not mistaken, with President Medvedev?

Alexander Sokurov: No, were not meeting with the president, was meeting with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. For the first time such a meeting I had.

B. Posner: It was your initiative? You asked about the meeting?

Sokurov: I, frankly, I really do not want to comment now, and talk about it. Well, I prefer to say that yes, I initiated the meeting.

B. Posner: And it was not connected, assume a request of funding, say, a new picture?

Alexander Sokurov: It was due to a number of issues that I had for this man. A number of issues. For me, first of all is, of course, the fate of the city, which, I believe, begins to die. I am referring to St. Petersburg.

Vladimir Pozner: I understand.

Alexander Sokurov: It is not a hometown for me, I am a resident there. Like many people, I'm just a resident there, and I take in this city that left the people that saved people. First and foremost I would like to draw his attention to this catastrophic situation. I have a feeling that, you know, that architectural community of the city reminds me of a hospital, where all the doctors want to be a pathologist. The city is destroyed most rapidly, we stop it - I mean the social forces - can not in any way. And it was, in general, almost for me the main theme of this talk is to help stop this outrageous process here.

B. Posner: We have to this subject will definitely return. It was in the first place. And what else?

Alexander Sokurov: In the first place. There were also issues related to mine all sorts of thoughts, ideas about the development of culture, cinema. Yes, those were questions, too. This is something that worries me too, but not as much as questions about the city.

B. Posner: "Were there issues related to freedom of creativity, for example, like this stuff?

Sokurov: Yes, I told him about how I work. He talked about how the picture was made "Sun", which is preparing for 10 years, now that the Japanese theme. This is the story of Emperor Hirohito. And, in general, it was listened to with astonishment. Because I think that the Prime Minister, I think that such examples, well, in practice it probably was not so much. At least, the idea that the cinematographic work - is the result of enormous effort of many years of preparation, step by step towards achieving this goal. What is not an outbreak of emotions, eh? But what is hard and long, long, long labor. It was probably for him the news.

B. Posner: And what do you have the impression from this meeting?

Alexander Sokurov: I saw a man energetic, extremely busy. As before, I pretty close and for long years been familiar with Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin. And I saw two different people, of course. By the nature of accommodation - minutes, seconds and so on and so on - two different people, two different energies, two different states. Boris - a man for me was completely open, there was the fact that we had not discussed. Sometimes it was difficult conversations - and for him and for me. For me it was to overcome some of the things that I find it hard sometimes ...

B. Posner: And here it was easy?

Alexander Sokurov: And here, here, too, was not easy. Also not easy, but I realized that for me more than the private individual - this is understandable. But on the other hand it is such a first meeting was our one on one. Because before that there were meetings where I participated in some conversations, and acted, apparently, abruptly and harshly.

B. Posner: You?

Sokurov: Yes. Yes. And came across some, perhaps, even his sharp remarks and answers. And so, in general, it was such a relationship difficult. I can not talk to people from the upper life, because I do not know the steps, and for me this man still remains in first person, not a functionary.

B. Posner: But you were no any questions, well, wider general, one way or another related to the country as a whole?

Alexander Sokurov: You know, I would not like now ...

B. Posner: Do you want to, yes? Well, you're entitled. But as a journalist, I still one question can not you do not ask, because I am interested in this question. In general, there was some discussion about censorship?

Alexander Sokurov: Let me tell you what is not?

Vladimir Pozner: Well, thanks for your reply.

Alexander Sokurov: He took me as a very particular person, was ready for this meeting. I saw that he was ready for this meeting. Unexpectedly for me, it was held in this very friendly tone. While there he had just returned from Rostov, from Rostov, he flew to Chechnya, Chechnya night back in Zavidovo. The meeting was in Zavidovo, and, in general ... I hope that the issues we were talking about, they always find some kind of resonating effect. I hope so: and then, with regard to cinema, and what concerns, of course, St. Petersburg.

B. Posner: A little bit back to the question of St. Petersburg, Petrograd, Petersburg.

Alexander Sokurov: St. Petersburg.

Vladimir Pozner: I know you a little while ago a play, "Orestes" in St. Petersburg, and that the play was closed.

Alexander Sokurov: No, I did not put. We started doing it - it Mikhailovsky Theatre in St. Petersburg.

B. Posner: Yes, and?

Alexander Sokurov: And after I signed with 12-13 people a letter in defense of Petersburg, a letter was sent to the State Duma, the Federation Council, the Public Chamber.

B. Posner: Message is.

Alexander Sokurov: Appeal, yes. And there is no one specifically, the names were not called, who were to blame. Most likely, there was a list of measures that were necessary, from our point of view - very specific things. And at first I was asked to withdraw his signature, I said that I would never answer.

B. Posner: Who, if not secret?

Sokurov: I can not say it. I do not want. It does not matter.

B. Posner: Good. So was the pressure?

Alexander Sokurov: Well ... Let it be so. So, I said that, of course, it is impossible despite the fact that some people from those who have signed, including honorary citizens of the city withdrew their signatures in the end.

V. Pozner: Ah, after all?

Alexander Sokurov: withdrawn, yes.

B. Posner: Do you have it alone?

Alexander Sokurov: No, no, no, there still remain without me signing it, not all did so.

B. Posner: But you said, only 12?

Alexander Sokurov: Well, I do not remember 12. There, in my opinion, signatures of five withdrew, the others remained nonetheless. And then I was told that the continuation of my show is not possible, the performance will be closed.

B. Posner: The same person who asked you to remove your signature?

Sokurov: Yes, yes. Which is empowered to decide all these questions.

B. Posner: That is, there is no need to wonder whether there is a connection between these events?

Alexander Sokurov: I have no doubts.

Vladimir Pozner: Well, no, just the same person ...

Alexander Sokurov: I have no doubt, because ... Well, because I know that for sure.

Vladimir Pozner: I can not ask you, and you talked about this, Vladimir Vladimirovich? Here is an example - it's suppression ...

Sokurov: I told him about it. But apparently, such a characteristic feature or characteristic of nature Vladimir exactly is that instantly no reaction.

B. Posner: And, of course.

Alexander Sokurov: And this is true, that's correct, I believe. Because for him, this situation was the first unknown, and apparently had no idea that this is possible. Because it dealt with the opera "Oresteia," which has never in Russia, in general, not intended for real. And it was my dream, of course, do it, but, unfortunately, so I paid for it.

B. Posner: So you will talk rudely, you were punished?

Alexander Sokurov: punished.

B. Posner: And the other punished, you know?

Alexander Sokurov: Well, I know I left the theater principal conductor Anihanov well.

Vladimir Pozner: I am thinking of those who signed - even someone punished?

Alexander Sokurov: I do not know, because we do not even responded to this letter. None of the organizations in which we treated, even in this letter is not answered. With me, too, is not surprised at all, because I understand perfectly well that the issues that we raise - is the root issues, it questions the country's culture, that is, questions of how it all started in public life. Well, I think this is the most important thing is in the state. All the rest, and including, for what the state exists - that there be a full-fledged cultural development of people. This is the most important thing, for which there is a state - only for the development of culture. And everything else, including the state - this is just a tool for its development: to be a certain level of culture - will be a certain level of culture of government will be a certain level of culture of the Army, other Department of Foreign Affairs will, and so on and so forth ... And Industry will be the other way around, you know? It's all to the extent that this vertical, so that now the pyramid - it is reality ...

B. Posner: You know, I decided to enter into our program a new heading. It's called "Direct Speech". It quotes a guest, which I just read out, so that guests commented on his own words.

Alexander Sokurov: The answer is, yes?

B. Posner: We now proceed to this, but first we will have ads.

PART TWO

B. Posner: So, direct speech. "Living at home, I feel their vulnerability. Social insecurity, personal. I understand that with me at any moment can happen, anything, and every day for some reason I feel this danger more and more. I felt the good of its because I was heavily under the Soviet regime - and then I had a problem with the state, but I would say that now the situation is even more acute, much harder. "

Alexander Sokurov: Well, in my opinion, this says it all.

B. Posner: And you to this ... Still, I do not really understand how there could be more difficult now, and sharper than in Soviet times, when at every step of the KGB, when they could sit at any time when, generally speaking it was impossible to go to court - it was absolutely disadvantageous everything. Why do you say that even more acute today? How do you justify this? Explain.

Alexander Sokurov: You know, I need people. I need people around me, around me people I need. I need people who are experiencing similar to what I am worried sick, maybe because I'm sick. And I still see some degradation of the humanitarian community, humanitarian degradation of people. Very often I do not have any bearing, well, except, perhaps, books, and circle of close friends.

B. Posner: But you talk about insecurity, personal insecurity.

Sokurov: Yes, yes.

B. Posner: So?

Alexander Sokurov: It is very difficult formulated emotional state. Maybe it comes from the city where you live such a difficult, complicated life.

Vladimir Pozner: I understand what you say.

Alexander Sokurov: Because Saint-Petersburg - the city is very complicated. Just a complicated city.

Vladimir Pozner: I understand. But simply, if I were asked today and 20 years ago, "How do you feel?" I would still say: "And then I was not protected, and today, but today still more protected." Well, so I have a feeling. You do not?

Alexander Sokurov: I do not have that feeling. I have no support, I have no confidence in the future.

B. Posner: And, in the future?

Alexander Sokurov: I'm afraid I'm afraid ...

B. Posner: Then it was, or what?

Alexander Sokurov: Then it was, yes. I fear for society, I fear for the state, I fear for some unpredictable, irreversible complexity of the situation around me. And while I understand perfectly well that in the event of this complexity, and that suddenly, this conflict arise, no one will protect neither society nor culture, nor the state. People who perhaps would be ready to defend ... Suppose, half understanding what was happening - to me they are missing them very little, in my opinion.

Vladimir Pozner: Direct speech. "I do not like the modern state structure in Russia. I do not like her lack of talent for the state organization for netalantlivost public life from top to bottom. I see ineptly organized local government, totally unprofessional exercise his house. I remember very well how to deal with these problems our past State - Kurguzov, often silly, but they're clearly understood: this problem the state has. Now that understanding is not at all, and we're closer to the abyss. " Which gap?

Alexander Sokurov: The abyss is when people refuse the right of the State to exist, when people refuse to understand the law, to regulate life.

B. Posner: So it's about revolution, you say about the revolt.

Alexander Sokurov: Because I myself have repeatedly faced with situations where it is impossible to get through, get through to those people who must make decisions just like in the city. You know, not to each official will enter. I even would say that to any official will not get. If you're just a man, you have no connection with the leadership - be it the area above, and there is already general. This is nothing. People living in cities, in big cities - they are not protected. They are no one hears, no one responds to what they seek. No one understands what the pain in my heart these people. They just do not hear. You may submit any application, try to solve the most basic question. I've said repeatedly Yeltsin and, probably, in the presence of Vladimir Vladimirovich, I said several times: "to create in Russia a cruel state." This is the way to the abyss.

Vladimir Pozner: a cruel?

Alexander Sokurov: a cruel state. Because in my opinion ... Well, Russia - this is a teenager, this state, we somehow it does not yet established, we can not understand what the Russian state, a place some emphasis in this state is. What is it for the body? In all likelihood, Russia - a living organism.

B. Posner: Do you forgive me for going back to it, but yet I also very interesting and, perhaps, it is important to understand: You have these things too, "said Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin?

Alexander Sokurov: None. These things are like this, as now, I did not say, of course. Do not say that.

B. Posner: We turn now to the theme of St. Petersburg, which you so worried. It would be a little bit there to climb. But more direct speech in front of it, because there is a connection. "We have to be with people who have the will and love of country and love of life in this country. To be with them. Yes, it can dramatically affect the career, in future life. But the degree of sacrifice, each chooses. To Be think in a practical way to try something to help. We have a motion of "The Living City", "Green Wave" movement in defense of New Holland and others, are all permitted by laws and socially accepted form of dialogue with the government. If you support such these movements, the portion of people who are not all equal - there is the same dialogue with your contemporaries and the city. If you decide to leave the country if the burden of life is not your shoulder - go away. But if you live here, we must fight.

Sokurov: Yes, it is.

B. Posner: That's it?

Alexander Sokurov: It is.

Vladimir Pozner: What you're fighting in Petrograd? What are you so happy? What are you worried?

Alexander Sokurov: I am concerned that in St. Petersburg is what really happens, not only in St. Petersburg - and in Yekaterinburg, and Nizhniy Novgorod, probably in Saratov. I am extremely concerned about the disregard for the prevailing atmosphere does not suit me very familiar relations to the pattern which exists. It is not satisfied. I am extremely not happy with such a degradation in the behavior of people who solve our problems - the urban environment, architecture, culture of city life - it bothers me extremely.

Vladimir Pozner: Well, give an example of what you have in mind?

Sokurov: I mean, for example, high-rise building in St. Petersburg. I mean, the sealing construction in St. Petersburg, well, for example, in St. Petersburg, although it applies to all cities that I have now told you. And this trouble - she has trouble throughout Russia. These strange people, which we call the architects, these are people who have no - no humanitarian or other programs and tasks, and samochuvstvovaniya no. They turned to the waiters. I do not know, do we have architecture or not, and that these people have in their souls.

B. Posner: The waiters - are known to serve.

Alexander Sokurov: They serve. Of course, they serve the government, serving the building complex, and in general, are in complete subjection, are now part of the system failure. How can we in St. Petersburg to build high-rise buildings? Here is how it can be done? The city is very small.

B. Posner: If I'm not mistaken, it was a rule that you can not build higher than the Winter Palace.

Alexander Sokurov: Above the Winter Palace, yes.

B. Posner: And Zingerovskaya company delivered slightly higher, it seems, that this globe of the bookshop, which was Zingerovskim store - and it is the only violation that was not it?

Alexander Sokurov: Well, this is a violation of art. This is architecture.

B. Posner: And you would like it to stay there?

Alexander Sokurov: I want it to remain so. I want to stay there because the city of St. Petersburg - he is not only unique for Russia, but for the whole world - the second such city in the world no. It's very small, it is now one prefecture of Moscow, the whole center of St. Petersburg - it is very small: there is just something to budge, he simply cease to exist. This is actually a very difficult situation. This is totally artificial phenomenon - Petersburg. He has brought us here this experience in Europe, our European tradition and European architects. What to do with this miracle that has given us here that our eldest sister Europe, in Russia and did not understand. Our architects have not created this city, not invent it, and now they do not know what to do with it. They just do not know what to do with it.

B. Posner: But to him that something should be done?

Alexander Sokurov: It must be left alone. Like the Palace Square, as Nevsky Prospect. Palace Square in St. Petersburg operates the Palace Square, she has a job. Do not there is nothing to build, do not there is nothing to hold - it is in itself an architectural monument. This is a monument of architecture, a historical monument - in itself an area. And the house itself - is an architectural monument, a monument to time. During the siege the people were afraid of door and window openings to pull out and burn in the oven, and warm themselves. That is the price of this city so great. It is so inadequate in general, no other-way estimates - the millions of human lives, millions.

B. Posner: You know, for opposing journalistic habit, I can not ask you. So there you have enemies?

Alexander Sokurov: Yes.

Vladimir Pozner: Who? You can name any names or you will refrain again?

Alexander Sokurov: No, well, who? I think that is the vast majority of architects. I think that this book of the city, I think. Because, for example, just now have been replaced: a chief architect was removed, appoint another person. This man, in general, ideologist of high-rise building, he himself had built in high-rise buildings and supports it. In addition, the Conservation Society, or rather, there is such an organization KGIOP, protection of monuments of culture - it is in the disposal of the governor, the organization. That is, those people who take ...

B. Posner: It is not independent?

Alexander Sokurov: It is not independent. It should be independent, it is not independent. And the governor, of course, is dependent on the entire structure, from all that's this business ant enormous. Of course, under enormous pressure. I'm not talking about Gasprom 400-meter facility.

B. Posner: But it's not in the center of the same city, Alexander?

Alexander Sokurov: It's from any part of the city is practically invisible.

B. Posner: Evidently, yes, of course.

A. VENEDIKTOV: But it's not the point. Worth ... This is the same as the mycelium: Here is a fungus to grow, the whole town is already filled. Already! Already on Vasilevsky Island is now irreversible situation.

B. Posner: And if I played the role of devil's advocate? Think of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. Whatever you say - that as soon as possible? This high-rise, there is 330 meters, it is impossible, it spoils Paris! And now is the pride of Paris.

Alexander Sokurov: I once again want to tell you that the tower is frightening not only for its height, not only this. And that is a provocation to the total change in the essence of this city. Here's a complete change of the essence of this city. The essence of this city is a civilizational achievement, the value of civilization. This value of civilization.

B. Posner: Do you mean the St. Petersburg?

Alexander Sokurov: I am referring to St. Petersburg. This value of civilization. That, of course, what I say or not?

Vladimir Pozner: I?

Alexander Sokurov: This is the value of civilization.

Vladimir Pozner: How to Venice, for example.

Alexander Sokurov: Well, even more so.

B. Posner: Why?

Alexander Sokurov: Because it is the most heavily built a city on the northernmost outskirts. There is nothing like more in the world - nowhere. At these latitudes in such circumstances to put a city, and contain it, protect it.

B. Posner: Tomorrow Alexander Nikolayevich Sokurov designate the main person and say: "Make this town that you think fit. What are your first steps?"

Alexander Sokurov: The first action - I ask the government funds, and if not - I find them to have all of these are buildings that are constructed, and which have already taken these first steps, already they deform, they have already humiliated the city - I snoshu all the upper floors.

B. Posner: Do you bear?

Sokurov: I snoshu all the upper floors. I snoshu all the upper floors. All the upper floors. First. Second, I declare a moratorium for about 2 years on every building in the historic city center. At every building. I am getting an international conference of architects and begin to consult with them what to do. I am getting an international conference of specialists to deal with traffic in the city. And I gather the third conference, international, according to the study of geology throughout the city.

V. Pozner: Geology?

Alexander Sokurov: Geology of the city. Everything under the city. While I do not get absolutely clear the specific recommendations of specialists, I have no action taken will not. My decision should not be the result of behind the scenes or some competition, which is surely in a city exists, but based on the findings of specialists, these things should decide specialists. I did not - how did you say, I was given the power - I did not like having the power of man, and people who know, know how to think about it. And! Be sure to put the issue of new elections of the Legislative Assembly in the city. Because the Legislature in the city, in fact, supports this trend, very sluggishly resisted these trends and our MPs in no way support the mood of the population. Not supported. It is very unpleasant aspect, because he had already painted a political color, because most people that there are people from the "United Russia". This is for me very uncomfortable.

B. Posner: That attitude artists and power - it is an eternal theme, only those who are not engaged. You touched on this topic in different ways, but here in his films "Moloch" and then "Taurus" and "The Sun", meaning there, Hitler, Lenin, and Japanese Emperor Hirohito. In this case you have goes like this: that you, in general, do not judge our leaders, but say that this judge should be the people, that is, the madness of millions, so you call it. You serious? You could say someone like Hitler - no, it's not his fault, but it is wrong that people who supported him chose, worshiped?

Alexander Sokurov: I have in this case suggests another medical analogy.

V. Pozner: Medical?

Alexander Sokurov: Medical analogy, yes. When we started doing work on the painting "Moloch", then I have collected a film crew and said: my dear friends, and now imagine that you - the hospital staff. I warn you: Now we bring a very large group of patients, notorious scoundrels. Ill just terrible disease. Infectious diseases awful. Touch difficult. What? What should we do with you? Treat.

V. Pozner: Treat, of course.

Alexander Sokurov: Treat. Why? In order to understand what it is. Where is it? If such characters, who calls you came with us out of the dispute, from somewhere in outer space listed, how it would be simple. But the fact that all the human race.

B. Posner: Of course.

Alexander Sokurov: Each of them is a man, and everyone here is a bearer of this amazing, amazing, strange, frightening some thoroughbred disease. Nazism - a thoroughbred disease. It is absolutely human, and in all probability, there are very long. That's very important to make the history of this disease, it is very important to understand where it applies, what body strikes in the first place, how to begin? And why are infected so many people at once? Where such is the media, where is he? It is the task of art: we must understand, to understand, to feel, to condemn, in my opinion, or God, or the people. I - not a judge, I do not have the strength, abilities and opportunities. I can ask God: "Lord, be kind enough if you allow me to do this heavy unpleasant affair, spent decades preparing for the painting, thinking, tossing and turning all the time, come back to these topics. Allow?" Probably permits.

B. Posner: Do you know what? You say that you can not assume that's how you go now to God. And you really after a very categorical in their judgments.

Sokurov: Yes, of course.

V. Pozner: Extremely.

Sokurov: Yes, of course.

Vladimir Pozner: Well, for instance, you say so. You know that our so-called patriots and statesmen keep talking about that here, a hostile environment, we must be prepared, we must be ... And you - there is, you say: "We are hated by all sides, secretly or openly. And I do not know when it will hear the command" FAS "and from which side the dog is meaner." Well, you know, at whose mill you pour the water, when you say that? Confirms. And then, where did you find that we are hated by all sides? Alexander, where you get that idea?

Alexander Sokurov: Vladimir Vladimirovich, I travel around the world, just like you, probably. I talk to different people. And the Europeans and Asians - are different, different people - and I see everywhere a clash of interest very difficult.

B. Posner: "We hated" - you say. Hated.

Sokurov: Yes, yes, yes, I say. Let me finish.

B. Posner: Well?

Alexander Sokurov: I'm at international festivals, where I see conflict of interest. And I understand perfectly well that Russia - a sort of a thorn. Here's how it accurately measured? How does it all call it, I do not know. Russia - this is such a thorn in the European consciousness, the European practice of humanitarian or political. How she got into a European body? Why is it so annoying anyway? Why every step - whether in culture, whether in historical circumstances, the military and other - is a complicated controversy " After all, Americans sometimes act much tougher, rougher than it is our homeland, are not we? Let us call a spade a spade, eh?

B. Posner: Unfortunately.

Alexander Sokurov: Unfortunately, yes. That is, I therefore say that in my view, Europe also turned her back on a humanitarian life. This can be seen on all grounds.

Vladimir Pozner: I have been to you so many questions, but the time we have very little, so I'll let you still get questions from our site, where people write - but they still wanted to ask you. I'm not all I can ask away, but ask a couple. For example, Maria G. Teplyakova - we have 3 minutes left, then turn to Marcel Proust - "After meeting with John Paul II and walks on the Vatican Palace, you wrote" I walked among the marvelous statues, copies of which had seen many times. But they were copies, and they were originals. I looked at them, I touched them. I went and thought about how else could take shape in my life, my films, if I once had the opportunity to see these originals. "And she asked, as it were, could certainly take your life?

Alexander Sokurov: And God knows her.

B. Posner: But in another way?

Alexander Sokurov: In another way, of course, different. Maybe it would not have movies, maybe it would be another life, another country, another time.

B. Posner: "Censorship is needed? - Asked Dmitry Petrovich Suslov - as a means of mayhem freedom?"

Alexander Sokurov: It is necessary to follow the Constitution. Constitution - this is now the very same censorship. The Constitution is the highest level of censorship. Just because we have this tool does not operate, there are conversations about censorship.

Vladimir Pozner: Last question from our audience. Yegor Sinebok: "You are repeatedly asked to have your picture was removed from the list of applicants for kinonagrady. You do not like to lose?"

Alexander Sokurov: I do not like to fuss, fight, I do not like all forms of opaque relations.

B. Posner: Marcel Proust then. We have a half minutes. What seems to you the ultimate happiness? Try briefly.

Alexander Sokurov: Health mum, health of mother and once again the health of mothers.

Vladimir Pozner: What seems to you the ultimate misfortune?

Alexander Sokurov: The loss of a loved one.

Vladimir Pozner: What are you most afraid of?

Alexander Sokurov: painful death.

V. Pozner: When you lie?

Alexander Sokurov: When I am afraid to hurt someone deeply, deeply wounded person.

Vladimir Pozner: What human quality do you value most?

Alexander Sokurov: Compassion, of course.

Vladimir Pozner: What talent would you most like to possess?

Alexander Sokurov: M-m, how interesting. Talent, talent? Fly.

B. Posner: If you could talk to any man who ever lived, who would it be?

Alexander Sokurov: You probably know that Leonardo da Vinci.

B. Posner: Oh! Are you with me the same, amazing. For the first time in my life. It's great!

Alexander Sokurov: Well at least in something!

B. Posner: Good. What you lack is easiest to forgive?

Sokurov: Yes, I forgive all the shortcomings.

Vladimir Pozner: Well. So my next question: what lack you do not forgive - this not?

Alexander Sokurov: Ultimately, I forgive you.

B. Posner: Then the last question. Faced with the Lord, that you say to him?

Alexander Sokurov: Well, what can I say? Forgive me and understand. Do not leave our people. You have left, you left us. In the most difficult moment of our lives you have left. Try to understand us, understand us.

B. Posner: It was Alexander Sokurov. Now advertising, I will conclude the program.

CONCLUSION

B. Posner: You know, in connection with any questions about our automotive industry and appeal to drive domestic cars, I thought that's what history. That was back in the days of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, in the United States was made by someone who they have called the chief surgeon of the country - there is such a post, so that the health of the American nation is in danger and that the primary reason for this - it starts the way of life. What to do? You can not command people to suddenly run or something like that. And the White House is discussed, and decided that there is only one way to do something - this is a personal example. Sam Kennedy was seriously wounded during the Second World War, he could not run, but ran his brother Robert. He ran a camera, television. Vse, the whole country saw it. And you know, had their effect: America ran. And then the U.S. president - not all but most - always running. And Clinton was running, although he was portly, he will definitely run. Bush senior was running, Bush ran. In general, they all ran and always in public. Example. So when it comes to automobile industry, which must be saved. It's 10 million people working in this, our automobile industry, where the family, and so on. God forbid it all disappears - it's an incredible number of people lose their jobs. But for people to understand is, why all the officials from top to bottom, that is, people who engage in public affairs, large and small - why do not they show an example? Why not transfer to the Russian-made cars? Bad car! Well, then, let them do better. But first peresest. In fact, I absolutely do not for the fact that, say, the president went to the "Zhiguli. In the end, during the Soviet era the former management at ezdilo ZILah, but it was the Russian aircraft made by hand and all, but Russian, not foreign. I say this completely without irony, but I think that this example could have some influence. This is not a panacea - and in America are not all running around, but still a shift could be very significant. Here's a story.