Gurzhdiev, Georgy.

[Самвел]

Excerpted from PD DORMITION "In Search of the Miraculous"

Chapter 1

"I do not call the art of all the things that you so call it, is merely a mechanical reproduction, an imitation of nature or other people, or fantasizing originalnichane. True art - something completely different. Among the works of art, particularly ancient, you meet with many things that can not be explained, which contains something that deprived contemporary works of art. But since you do not understand what exactly is the difference, you will soon forget about it and continue to take all the art for the same species. Yet However, between your art and what I'm talking about, there is a huge difference. in your art all subjective: the perception of an artist of some sensation, and the form in which he tries to express his feelings, and perceptions of these forms of other people. At one and the same phenomenon one artist can feel one thing and another artist - just the opposite. The same sunset may cause one artist joy in the other - grief. Two artists may seek to express the same look completely different methods in different forms , or a completely different perception of the same forms - in accordance with certain traditions of training or in spite of them. And viewers, listeners or readers do not perceive what I wanted to give them an artist, not what he felt, and what that they evoke associations related to forms in which he invests his feelings. all subjective, all by chance, in other words, everything is based on random associations - and the impression of the artist, and his "work" (this word is pronounced with the accent Gurdjieff) and perceptions of viewers, listeners or readers. "In the true art is nothing accidental. Is math. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known in advance. The artist knows and understands that he has to pass, and his work can not produce one person one impression, and on the other - the other, provided, of course, that both of them - people of the same level. It with mathematical precision makes the same impression.

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"One and the same work of art will, however, have different experiences of people of different levels, and the lower level people will never get their hands on the fact that people get higher levels. This - the true, objective art. Imagine some scientific work, a book on astronomy or chemistry. impossible that one man understood her so, and the other - different. Everyone sufficiently prepared and able to read it, understand that the author is referring to - and understand exactly how it is expressed by the author . objective work of art like this book, but it also acts on the emotional side of a person, not just the intellect. "

- Is there anything in our time such works of objective art? - I asked.

- Of course, there are - Gurdjieff said. - This piece of art is a great Egyptian Sphinx, as well as some of the known works of architecture, some of the statues of the gods, and more. There are figures of deities and mythological creatures that can be read like a book, but not the mind and emotions - provided that they are sufficiently developed. During our travels in Central Asia, in the desert at the foot of the Hindu Kush, we have found a strange figure, which took over some ancient god or demon. At first it made on us just curious impression. But after a few days, we felt that the figure contains a lot, some big, full and complex system of cosmology. And slowly, step by step, to begin to decipher the system. It was hidden in everything - in body shape, in her arms, legs, head, eyes, ears - all over. In the statue there was nothing accidental, nothing meaningless. And gradually we understood the purpose of those who erected it. We began to feel their thoughts and feelings, and some of us seemed to see their faces, hear their voices. In all events, we grasp the meaning of what they wanted to pass through the millennia, and not only the meaning, but all that was associated with feelings and emotions. It was a real art!

Chapter 4

There are ... human being number one, who lives instincts and feelings, is the being of man number two, so to speak, being sentimental, emotional man, the being of man number three, being a rationalist, a man of theory of mind, and so on. It is quite clear why knowledge should not be far from being. Man number one, two or three - and the reason of his existence - does not perceive the knowledge of man number four, five and above. And what would you have given him no, he will explain it in his own way, downplaying any idea before. the level at which the self.

"The same order of division into seven categories to be applied to everything that is relevant to humans. There is art number one, that the art of man number one, imitation and copying, crudely primitive and sensual, such as music and dances of primitive peoples. There art number two - sentimental art, is the art of number three, intelligent and far-fetched, there must be also the art of number four, five and so on.

Chapter 13

"One thing you have to remember that there are two kinds of art, different from each other: the objective and subjective art. All that you know all that you call art - it is a subjective art, that is, something that I do not call it the art, and this is just because I call the art of art objectively.

"It is difficult to determine what is objective art, first, because you attribute all the signs of a subjective art fair, and secondly, because when you meet with the works of objective art, you feel that they are at the same level as the product of a subjective art.

"I'll try to explain my idea. You say, the artist creates. I say this only in connection with objective art. With respect to the subjective art I would say that he has" created something. "You do not make a distinction between these concepts, but it is here and is all the difference. Next, you assign a subjective art continued impact of a product that is expecting a subjective art the same effect on everyone. instance, you think that a funeral march should call all the sad and solemn thoughts, and any dance music, such as "Kamarinskaya 'cause happy thoughts. But in reality it is not so. all depends on associations. If the day that happened to me a great misfortune, the first time I heard some lively melody, the melody will be throughout my life makes me sad and depressing thoughts. And if in the day when I was particularly happy, I can hear the sad melody, the melody always makes me happy thoughts. So everything else.

"The difference between subjective and objective art is that in objective art, the artist really" works ", ie does what he intends to do, puts into his work the ideas and feelings that are willing to invest in it. And the effect of such works of art to people is absolutely certain: they will take (of course, each according to their level) are the same ideas, the same feelings - namely, the ones that the artist wanted to convey to them. Neither in the works, nor in impressions of objective art is nothing accidental.

"In the subjective art is all by chance. As I said, this artist does not do, he has" created something. "This means that it is in the power of ideas, thoughts and feelings, which he does not understand and over which has no power . They run it and embodied in various forms. And when they accidentally took some form, this form is just as casually has on people some effect depending on his mood, tastes, habits, and the nature of hypnosis under which he lives, and so on. There is nothing constant, nothing is certain. In objective art is nothing uncertain. "

- Do not go away whether art, if it becomes absolutely certain? - Asked one of us. - Do some uncertainty and ambiguity is not exactly what distinguishes art from, say, science? If you remove this uncertainty, if you eliminate the fact that the artist does not know that he will succeed, what impression it will make on the work of people that will be "literature", not art.

- I do not know what you mean - said Gurdjieff. We have different standards: I measure the value of art of his consciousness, and you - his unconsciousness. We can not understand each other. A work of art and the objective should be "literature", as you call it, the only difference being that the artist conveys his ideas not just through words, symbols or characters, and in some sense that he consciously and definitely exciting, knowing that and why he is doing.

- The legend of the statues of the gods in ancient Greek temples. - Said one of those present - for example, the statue of Zeus, which is produced at all certain, and always the same impression.

- That's right - said Gurdjieff. - Even the fact that such stories exist, proves that people understood that the difference between genuine and non-genuine art is in a constant or random effects.

- Can you specify some other works of objective art? Does the modern art is something that can be called objective? - Almost all participants were asked Gurdjieff these and similar questions.

- Before you say it, - answered Gurdjieff, one must understand the principles. If you can grasp the principles, you are able to answer their questions. And if you do not catch on, my words do not you explain. In the same way, as it was said: "Seeing not see, and hearing they hear not, neither understand."

"I'll give you just one example: the music. All music is based on the objective of" internal octaves. "And it is not just some psychological results, but also obvious physical results. There is a music that turns water into ice. There is a music that instantly kills the person. Biblical legend of destruction through music the walls of Jericho is a legend just the objective music. Simple music can destroy walls, but objective music really able to do it. It can not only destroy but to build. A legend of Orpheus contains hints of objective music, for Orpheus transfer knowledge through music. music of snake charmers in the East is closer to the objective music, although very primitive. Often it's just one note that the long haul with a few ups and downs, but in this one note continuously heard "inner octave", inaccessible to hearing, but feel the emotional center. And the snake hears this music, strictly speaking, feels it and obey it. If you take the same music, but more complicated, it will obey the people.

"So you see that the art - it's not just the language, but much more. And if you link just what I said with what I talked about the different levels of human existence, you will understand what is being said about art. Mechanical Humanity is composed of people number one, two and three, they have, of course, can only be a subjective art. Objective art requires at least flashes of objective consciousness to properly understand these glimpses and properly use them, you need a deep inner unity and much power over you. "

[artcol]

Сообщение от Samvel

We have different standards: I measure the value of art of his consciousness, and you - his unconscious

Samvel, very interesting, is not it?

[Самвел]

An excerpt from the book by Charles Knott, "Teachings of Gurdjieff (STUDENT DIARY)"

Discussing the chapter on art, Orage said that during the time of Pythagoras artists talking while working to keep yourself emotionally identify himself to the task.

He continued: "There are two categories of art, subjective and objective - the subconscious and conscious."

"Art is a series of emotions that nature would like to, but can not produce. The extent to which the artist is conscious of this, determine its importance from our point of view. The artist should be in the spirit of nature, the laws of Nature. Understanding of mathematical principles of nature is not an understanding of its dynamics. Understanding of the artist is different from the scientific description of its routes. Scientists can not perceive the nature of the artist should be able to do this.

"Subjective artist to do art for the sake of personal development goal of the objective of the artist - and calculated to produce a certain effect on people, and his own personal goal may be included in this.

 "Art is a way to express emotions. Subjective art satisfies the artist, objective art works by perceiving the way it was intended by the artist.

"Objective art is based on the concept of the seven principles of the law in architecture, painting, sculpture, music, literature, dance, drama. Ruskin in his seven candlesticks one was on the way to it, but lost. Hokusai said that when he dies, he hopes to join a group of artists of Nature, which draws light and that creates the flowers. In Blake's vision was true of creation:

Oh, Tiger, whose eyes

Shine brightly in the night forest

Whose immortal hand and eye

Were able to create such a fearful symmetry?

"The current use of the word" art "is inappropriate in most cases. Contemporary art is just by chance. We talk about the Roma, typical subjective artists expressing only occasionally. We talk about the Roma, typical subjective artists expressing only themselves. Many artists have aesthetic, but human emotions. We can say: "Following the art, follow the mind." A true artist - it (antenna Nature) tentacle of nature coming in front of him sending his artists. In the House of Study is the aphorism: "Do not love the art of the senses."

"Objective art leads to a state of non-identification. Great art - is to create a perfect human being in himself.

[Самвел]

CHAPTER "ART" OF BOOKS GI, Gurdjieff, "Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson"

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[QUOTE=Samvel ; 2377341 ] CHAPTER "ART " OF BOOKS GI , Gurdjieff , " Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson "
Samvel, recently learned that Dzhugashvili Gurdjieff sat at the same desk in the seminary. Since Stalin paring those who knew of his past life , he was trying to clean up and Gurdjieff , was arranged by accident in France.

[Самвел]

Сообщение от artcol; 2377371"

Samvel, recently learned that Dzhugashvili Gurdjieff sat at the same desk in the seminary. Since Stalin paring those who knew of his past life , he was trying to clean up and Gurdjieff , was arranged by accident in France .

A lot of speculation , saying he loved distribute such riddles. Here is what Pyatigorskiy.http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fuGmdimYUI

[Магнолия]

Сообщение от artcol; 2369061"

is very interesting, is not it ?

Allow me to join your conversation.

I have here a reprint of "TERTIUM ORGANUM key to the mysteries of the world ," PD Ouspensky . Here 's an interesting preface publisher on 4 pages at the end of which he writes: PD Ouspensky was the main theorist and promoter of GI Gurdjieff teaching in the West. It is no accident five-volume monumental work M.Nikolla called " psychological commentary on the teachings of GI Gurdjieff and PD Ouspensky " (London, 1953-1956 years)

Subject to subjective intuition as an altered state of consciousness is considered by me in connection with an investigation " turns intuitive natural principles " encoded final letters of the alphabet (the essay " Development Code ").
G.I.Gurdzhiev was as brilliant exponent of subjective intuition as Alexander Pushkin principle of "Poetry" (essay "winged image of the heavenly aeon ")

[artcol]

Сообщение от Magnolia

I have here a reprint of "TERTIUM ORGANUM key to the mysteries of the world ," PD Ouspensky . Here 's an interesting preface publisher on 4 pages at the end of which he writes: PD Ouspensky was the main theorist and promoter of GI Gurdjieff teaching in the West. It is no accident five-volume monumental work M.Nikolla called " psychological commentary on the teachings of GI Gurdjieff and PD Ouspensky " (London 1953-1956 GG )

Magnolia, in my opinion - the Assumption deepest understanding of Gurdjieff , so to speak , lay down cards in the suit . Ie He was ready , in theory, first of all, to accept this doctrine and corresponds but retrieved and shown us the most valuable of the essence . IMHO.

[Самвел]

I was most surprised that there are people of different professions and talents, and there are
and so on.
Gurdjieff managed to be all together, and all felt like a fish in water, all had a high level.

[artcol]

Сообщение от Samvel

I was most surprised that there are people of different professions and talents, and there are and so on. Gurdjieff managed to be all together, and all felt like a fish in water, all had high levels .

Samvel, if you remember that part , which describes their stay in Istanbul - is also surprised and Ouspensky.

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Сообщение от Magnolia

brilliant exponent of subjective intuition

Difficult to determine exactly what he was spokesman.