Olivier Bertrand of the real value of art

[Artem]

Olivier Bertrand of the real value of art
  22.09.2011
questions to the expert
 Mr. Bertrand, since you have extensive experience as an art dealer, you know the market very well. I would like to talk to you about this market, the fake pictures on the evaluation and understanding of art as a whole.

- What or who has the biggest impact on the prices of works of art?

- I think that today influence the assessment of works of art have a major auction houses. From their peer review depends largely on the decision of potential buyers, it also affects the final cost of the work. And it is typical for the whole market.

- Thus, the auction houses to dictate the prices that affect people's opinion of value on art?

- Yes, if you look at assessed value in the auction catalog - it should reflect the previous sale and the current value of certain definite picture of the artist. However, in recent years, the market is developing rapidly, and vendors are trying to get more and more. There is a rivalry between two major auction houses - Sotheby's and Christie's - they're competing to get more works of art of very high quality. So they are willing to increase the estimated value, even without any reference to a previous story. For example, the last sale of Jeff Koons - the estimated cost was terribly overpriced and, finally, was sold at 30%less than the stated initial price. And even if this position is sales so strong that they still have an impact on prices. Sotheby's and Christie should get the highest price they expect to receive for work of high quality, so they are ready and they need to have an impact on the market.

This is a kind of battle. So, in my opinion, for the art market - not to classical art, but for contemporary art, as well as for some artists, like Picasso, Matisse and a masterpiece of any other time - there is currently no price cap.

- So, if you want to buy a certain piece of art, you can not just rely on the price you paid for the painting of the same artist in the last year or two ago?

- No! Because they are very different when compared with the early period Picasso Picasso others in the same period - they are totally different. State picture is also playing an important role in the appointment of the cost - an important subject, the size of the picture and, of course, weather. All of these elements, plus assessment, marketing, and all the events surrounding the evening sales will be affected by potential buyers. Evaluation is not a reflection of the last sale.

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Today, if I have to do an estimate for the very important work, the paintings of Toulouse-Lautrec, for example, I think it is very easy, because we have a database. It plays a significant role in assessing an important painting. Based on this database, I can give an assessment is very close to the previous value obtained for the work of this kind. But in the end, I can not say how the market reacts to strong marketing and a very aggressive estimate that Sotheby's and Christie's almost required to provide to sellers. So, my assessed value may be erroneous, the final price can be twice as large as estimated. We are talking about works of art, they are not stocks, they are all different and they all have their own history, therefore, the estimate is always very subjective.

Thus, at present, it seems very easy to make an assessment because we have an accurate database and at the same time, it is difficult to guess the final price, which eventually gets the seller.

- If you have, for example, a customer who is looking for a work of art, and he knows exactly what it will be the price you have any advice as he can to make sure that the price he is willing to pay is adequate?

- Today, I rarely meet the owners of works of art that has no idea about the cost. They attend all known sites artnet, Artprice or artvalue. They all seem to think that they have experience or expert knowledge in the same area. It is difficult to discuss something in this area. There are paintings that were sold with the incorrect attribution. Sometimes they are properly recorded in the database. In addition, the state pattern is very important to their value. The database does not account for the fact that low price may be due to poor work. And if you have a similar situation, you can not compare your work in excellent condition with the work that is being sold in poor condition.

To keep abreast of events, I personally go to every major auction to explore the world of art. I know that this picture is of some importance, and that other pictures will be of no interest to serious collectors, and that prices will continue to suffer from ill. But if you see only what is on screen, it can look fantastic.

- So it is always better to have an expert opinion on the art market?

I think this is true for all areas! I have some knowledge of medicine, but I'm not a doctor. However, if my son is sick, I go to the doctor. I do not understand the reaction of new people in the market. They believe that they can get all the information on the Internet, which seems to be the new bible for many people. When they want to buy a new home, they take an architect and several experts for each of the house. And we are talking about houses worth twice or maybe three million. For such a sum on the art market, however, they sometimes do things on their own - without consulting a specialist. Guided only by the advice of Sotheby's and Christie's valuation or cost, or based on the fact that they can read in the catalog.

You can not trust just one opinion. Today, we often have the opportunity to get a free estimate, free comparison, and we must use all possible sources: the Internet, databases, experts, consultants, Sotheby's, Christie's, every person who has knowledge and experience in this field and who can help, give advice to people about what the correct assessed value for a work of art.

- Remember Galleries ABA charges that have been identified 14 cases of overcharging and even four fake paintings. So the question is over-assessed value is now a huge debate in the market. This phenomenon really exist or is a normal market situation, we simply have to present a record price?

- When I read about the huge prices obtained by auction houses around the world, it also can make it appear that these prices are too high. But this is the price someone is willing to pay. But is this the real value of work? If a collector wants to sell these for the next day, maybe he will get only 50%of the cost. Because he was the only buyer who was willing to buy such a work. A day after, no one is nobody cares. Thus, the price he paid was too high, it was an open market, like an auction. We all know that sometimes the work can be purchased at the gallery or at the fair, but after a few months they can be sold at auction for a price much higher than was paid at a fair or a gallery. Thus, there is no single solution to how to determine whether the price you paid, the real cost? So do not forget that the cost of "under the hammer" today adds about 20, 25, 30%of the commission, the buyer must pay. Thus, the final price is increased by a very significant percentage. A couple of weeks after that, if you want to sell it, you will definitely lose money. Thus, the work was bought at auction, the price is too high for the simple reason that the commissions were high.

In addition, today we are talking about a lot of money on the art market, but not about the art. The market has changed, but the art remains the same. It should play an important role in your life because it gives you pleasure. But you get new buyers who have no knowledge, because they do not know, but they are willing to spend a lot of money at auctions, fairs. So they should not be surprised if after the purchase they will know that they paid too much.

- In the end, the decision of buyers, how much he wants to spend?

- Yes, it's completely subjective market. You should something like it, and you must determine the maximum value. You should go to an adviser to have an idea about the real value of this work. Even if you pay a little more than the appraised value, and you are a private collector, you're on the art market is not to make money. You come to the art market, trying to create a collection, trying to get pleasure from contact with the artwork, and trying to pay the price they are worth. In my opinion, it is an adequate behavior. If you want to make money, go to the stock market. Art is not created in order to make money. Today it is a real problem.

- That is, in general, you are saying that price-fixing - a phenomenon that does not exist in reality, this is just an extension of the market?

- One hundred years ago by Picasso worth very cheap. Those families who bought the Picasso at the time, now rich. And they can not say that Picasso is an example of excessive cost. At the same time a century ago, many artists who were represented by major galleries and sold his work at the huge amount of money, and now they are worthless. So time to change the ratio of cost of works: the fact that yesterday was a popular, now undergoing a reverse state. An important aspect is to purchase works. If you are paying more than the average for the painting of the artist - this is your problem. But if you really love this work, it's not a problem. The real difficulty arises when the work for which you paid, is not genuine. This is not a question of cost - someone sold you something, than it actually is not. For me it's the biggest problem in the art market, and it is not new. Fakes have always existed, but we still can not accept it.

- To sum up: the art is complex and subjective market today, and making money on it should not come first. Can you draw a conclusion about what should be an art as it should be represented on the market?

- I think that today force and effect of Sotheby's and Christie's are important - they carry a very heavy responsibility. However, first they must finish this endless fight for the cost - today they often do not reflect the real cost of the works of art of high quality. In another part of the market, pictures or artwork of poor quality are assessed accordingly low. Reason: auction houses want to sell them at any cost. Thus, they are required to assign a very low cost to approximately 90%of goods traded in the market. And 10%are of very high quality with very high estimated cost. The highest value of the masterpieces of need for marketing and promotional purposes. The remaining 90%of lots to be sold at any price because the company wants to get a commission.

Is it not possible to regulate this market? Today, many auction houses are closing their doors and there are only fair with art. I think in the future, art fair and auction will be the only places to buy and sell works of art. Many galleries will simply disappear. Just like in real life. You will have Art Basel Miami, Art Basel, and possibly 50 major trade fairs and auction houses in the world, and that's it. This is the future. I do not think that selling online will increase, because people need to look at works of art in person. Nevertheless, the Internet will replace the closed gallery.

- Thank you, Mr. Bertrand, for this interesting interview! Source: auctionlot.info, belart.org

[Pavel]

WE HAVE A AUCTION YOU CAN TRUST IN GENERAL OR AUCTION?

[Konstantin]

Сообщение от Pavel

and we have AUCTIONS YOU CAN TRUST IN GENERAL OR AUCTION?

You do not need toldychit same - Bunn 2 months.

[Artem]

Olivier Bertrand: "Art for me was Pohitonova shock»
17/06/2011
questions to the expert

Olivier Bertrand name known to all who are interested in painting. An acknowledged expert, scholar Ivan Pohitonova, an expert on Belgian art - with this amazing man can talk forever. On the painting, aesthetics, and the laws of the market value of antiques and works of art. How has the market over the past few decades, and what is profitable to invest today?
 
- Mr. Bertrand, you - an internationally recognized expert on Belgian art, also specialize in works of Russian artist Pohitonova. In this regard, my first question: what do you say about the fact that the average cost of painting Pohitonova has multiplied over the past 10 years?

- Now I am 45 years old, and was 17 when I first discovered the work Pohitonova, and it was a shock for me. While the paintings were very rare Pohitonova on the market, their price was about 3000-5000 euros. This was due to a deficit, as well as weak demand for Russian artists.
 
In 1997, three paintings have appeared on the French market, while I was working for an important Belgian collector. Then, many fans were Pohitonova Belgians, because the artist lived in Belgium for almost 30 years. At the same time, I met with a Russian collector, who decided to buy Pohitonova work, regardless of cost. And then we first saw the picture of the artist, a very beautiful and very large, which cost over 30,000 euros. And then another, smaller one, which cost as I remember, 15-18 thousand euros. I was frankly surprised at the rising cost of Pohitonova only because of the sudden appearance of a competitor.
 
Then I was at Sotheby's in London in October 1998 and met the man again. Again the competition was very high, so that the picture was gone for more than 10 000 or 13 000 pounds, higher than the appraised value. Since that time, all paid attention to Pohitonova, and Russian buyers have come to market.

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Thus, the rise in prices - quite logically phenomenon where there are Russian oligarchs and bankers interested in Pohitonova, which was fantastic and very important artist, he remained forgotten for decades and was not available to Russian collectors. It is difficult to answer on the average cost of painting Pohitonova today, and in principle, this question is not easy to work any of the wizard. I can say that the masterpieces Pohitonova such as "Impressionism", "City View", "View of Paris", which adorned the cover of Sotheby's catalogs or Christie's, can cost up to half a million pounds. The record was 400-500 in the amount of thousands of dollars (can not remember exactly the figures), which were paid 3-4 years ago.
 
What else is important: I am a guarantor that any picture Pohitonova on the market, is authentic, because there are many fakes. For each work Pohitonova most auction houses are linked with me, and if I say it's a fake, they will not put up for auction now, that is, the buyer guarantees there, but they are expensive.
 
- Do you have followers?

- Now I am preparing a catalog raisonné, he was almost finished, will be released later this year. It is very important for me and for my colleagues. When I leave the world of art, no one can get a similar examination for a short time, so as soon as I have been doing work Pohitonova for many years. At the same time, so my experience is not lost, and the artist's paintings have been appreciated. With the publication of the catalog raisonné market will remain strong because the publication will include unknown works that are hidden in the vaults, but can appear on the market. I have compiled a large archive of old black and white photos and lots of other information, all of which I plan to publish.
 
- Do you think the rise in the cost - it is a phenomenon of an artist or it can be attributed to Russian art in general?
 
- Development of the Russian market in the last 15 years, and absolutely not in doubt. Many famous Russian artists have increased in price, such as Repin, Shishkin, Aivazovsky, or. Many of these artists were bought, when collectors can buy them. But today there is another problem with some important artists, such as Alexandra Exter: it is unclear who is an expert on the master, why this person is an expert and so on? This fact had great influence on the value of paintings by Alexandra Exter, because there was no certainty that the pictures are authentic, because they have never been reproduced or published, there was a story that could prove their authenticity. So people are cool with such pictures, but at the same time work with the rising cost of expert opinion was as great as in the case of Pohitonova.
 
- During your study Pohitonova Have you ever legends, it is always very interested buyers?

We can not talk about legends in this case. Pokhitonov was a special person, very discrete, he painted in detail on small panels with a unique technique of detail. Pokhitonov - a wonderful artist, he has a sense of color, a sense of perspective. He is a genius with his technique, his eyes ... And the legend - it is rather a history for the market to the public, but I'm closer to reality.
 
- proceed to the market of Belgian art. How would you assess his position in the international market?
 

- Very bad. This is a political problem of Belgium, and it has been around a long time. For the first time the Belgian art was put up for auction in 1970, when the most influential dealers and collectors fair held in London, this is the first attempt to bring art to the Belgian market. In the late '80s, first in the 88th and 89th and last in the 90's, Christie's repeated attempt. The first time it was fantastic, because so many people at that time, 20-30 years ago, were personally interested in the Belgian art, it is famous for high quality.
 
Today, the Belgian market is very weak. Many large dealers have closed their gallery today, mostly exhibited Magritte, Ensor and Delvoks (Delvaux). As well as representatives of modern art: Tuymans, Ponomarenko and Delvaux (Delvoye), Jan Fabre (Jan Fabre). Pictures of the most important artists such as Magritte, out of the country and not return to her the same thing with Delvoksom and Ensor.
 
Otherwise, I see that the collectors who bought 20 years ago, now stopped to buy the same things. Flemish expressionists, such as Gustave de Smit, Frits van den Berghe, Constant Permeke cost less than 15 years ago. For example, you can buy a masterpiece but estimates (de Smet) at 200-300 thousand euros, but 20 years ago it would have cost you 1 million. But 20 years ago people were buying, and now, despite the cost, people no longer buy these paintings. This market is dangerous for those who are thinking about investments, but today is a good time for those who appreciate the Belgian artists. Their paintings can be expensive to buy for my own pleasure and not for resale.
 
- What do you think, whether the auction houses have a big impact on the establishment of the appraised value of lots?

- The importance of auction houses, of course, was and remains very strong. Moreover, I believe they are killing the market of galleries, buying them. Half of what they sell is not through auctions and through private transactions, so that the auction houses, auction houses have become classics in the dealer, and I personally think it's unfair to the classic dealers. The market has changed completely. The estimated cost is no longer a real market, but more like a competition of Sotheby's and Christie's, who are dreaming to get the most important piece. Therefore, the estimated value is not a reflection of the market, but rather a reflection of the requirements for the sale of prospective buyers. Particularly clearly demonstrated by the contemporary art market.
 
I was extremely surprised when I visited 3 weeks ago evening of contemporary art at Sotheby's in New York and saw the sculpture of "The Pink Panther" Jeff Koons is estimated at 20-30 million dollars. This is pure madness! And despite a fantastic price, it sold about 15 million - people interested in contemporary art, are willing to pay big money. Maybe after some time the situation will change, and prices begin to decline.
 
- Many thanks for your time!

The interview specifically for AuctionLot

[NATA NOVA]

Artem, thanks!

But if anyone know any particular soil pahitonovskogo boards (mastic?) And his method of "fish bone"?
(It would be interesting to know!)